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Thread: Searching for famous I2 carriers

  1. #126
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    So i typed my snps into the haplogroup predictor and there is a 45% chance im I-P37.2* west ( I suppose this means L233+). There's a 20% chance im J2b and no mention of any R1 clades. Then when taking the subclade predictor test theres a 65% chance im I-P37.2*-west and 20% chance im I1, could i guess that this is my haplogroup? Zero ftdna matches and no information was transmitted to me.

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    Please see post above for my question, it means alot to me, has anyone ever considered eastern germany\czech republic as region of origin of I2a? Before migrating towards balkans from this exact central europe region?

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    So i typed my snps into the haplogroup predictor and there is a 45% chance im I-P37.2* west ( I suppose this means L233+). There's a 20% chance im J2b and no mention of any R1 clades. Then when taking the subclade predictor test theres a 65% chance im I-P37.2*-west and 20% chance im I1, could i guess that this is my haplogroup? Zero ftdna matches and no information was transmitted to me.
    I thought you were T? Have you taken any SNP (rather than STR) tests? Do you have a YSearch ID so that I can take a closer look at your STRs?

    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Please see post above for my question, it means alot to me, has anyone ever considered eastern germany\czech republic as region of origin of I2a? Before migrating towards balkans from this exact central europe region?
    IIRC, I2a expert Vadim Verenich believes the I2a origin to be somewhere on the north side of the Alps. The region you're proposing is probably within range.

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    Im under the impression that the Czech republic region of central europe is where I2a originated before migrating en masse towards the balkans on one side and towards france \spain on the other side before moving to sardinia.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Seems like we got our first king ! Descendants of Napoleon III. tested for I-M170 and are presumably I-M223. Apparently a NPE occured in the Bonaparte line. The best candidate is http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carel_Hendrik_Verhuell.

    http://stoessel.wordpress.com/2013/1...bei-der-y-dna/

    http://www.empereurperdu.com/forum/p...hp?f=47&t=5135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armatus View Post
    Seems like we got our first king ! Descendants of Napoleon III. tested for I-M170 and are presumably I-M223. Apparently a NPE occured in the Bonaparte line. The best candidate is http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carel_Hendrik_Verhuell.

    http://stoessel.wordpress.com/2013/1...bei-der-y-dna/

    http://www.empereurperdu.com/forum/p...hp?f=47&t=5135
    Very intriguing. Looks like a done deal, and we should be getting a publication from Lucotte anytime now.

    Why presumably M223+, though? Do you have the STRs to look at somewhere?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Very intriguing. Looks like a done deal, and we should be getting a publication from Lucotte anytime now.

    Why presumably M223+, though? Do you have the STRs to look at somewhere?
    Unfortunately I don't have the STRs. I just saw I-M223 predicted (the stoessel link):



    FTDNAs predictions are normally accurate. It would also match Verhuells dutch ancestry pretty good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armatus View Post
    Unfortunately I don't have the STRs. I just saw I-M223 predicted (the stoessel link):

    FTDNAs predictions are normally accurate. It would also match Verhuells dutch ancestry pretty good.
    Wow, I missed that, I just noticed "I-M170" everywhere. Thanks. Added Napoleon III to the maybes for now, waiting on a little bit of additional confirmation (and hopefully STRs to classify him better).

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    I'm seeing several Barclays testing I2a1a1 L160+, but no indication that any are related to Barclay de Tolly. If there's interest though, I can add him to the maybes.
    What about adding the Barclay clan to the noble families section ? Most participiants with the actual Barclay surname tested I-L160, their TMRCA/Haplogroup fits the clan history (norman ancestry). The R1b section is mostly compromised of people with other surnames, plus they don't really match each other very closely.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Wow, I missed that, I just noticed "I-M170" everywhere. Thanks. Added Napoleon III to the maybes for now, waiting on a little bit of additional confirmation (and hopefully STRs to classify him better).
    Lucotte et al. published in October the extended Y-STR of Napoleon I based on descendant testing, and the descendants were E-M34, just like the emperor's beard hair tested a year before.

    They only tested Jérôme Bonaparte's descendants, not Louis and Napoleon III's line. But if Napoleon III's descendants aren't E-M34 it can only mean that a non-paternity event happened somewhere. Since its has been claimed that Louis Bonaparte was a homosexual, and his wife was non else than the promiscuous Hortense de Beauharnais (Joséphine's daughter), it wouldn't be too surprising that Napoleon III wasn't Louis's biological son.

    Hortense is known to have had at least one other illegitimate son (Charles de Morny, Duke of Morny), who bears an uncanny resemblance with Napoleon III, and could therefore both have been sired by the same man. This man, Hortense's lover and Charles de Morny's father, was Charles Joseph, comte de Flahaut. What's even more interesting is that he was himself the son of Prince Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord, possibly the greatest statesman of the French Revolution and the Bourbon Restoration, and the man most responsible for Napoleon I's downfall. Napoleon I famously told him that he was "a turd in a silk stocking". It would be an ironic twist of history if Napoleon III was really Tayllerand's grandson and not Napoleon I's !

    Besides, if this is true and Napoleon III is I-M223, it would also be the haplogroup of the House of Talleyrand-Périgord. This house is a cadet branch of the Count of La Marche, whose oldest patrilineal ancestor is Boso I (958–988), himself a probable descendant of the House of Limoges, from whom are also descended the Viscounts of Turenne, the Viscounts of Rochechouart, and the Dukes of Mortemart, among others. The House of Limoges itself was founded as a cadet branch of the Counts of Toulouse-Rouergue, dating back to the 9th century. I-M223 would be a very possible haplogroup for an old Frankish noble family.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armatus View Post
    Seems like we got our first king ! Descendants of Napoleon III. tested for I-M170 and are presumably I-M223. Apparently a NPE occured in the Bonaparte line. The best candidate is http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carel_Hendrik_Verhuell.

    http://stoessel.wordpress.com/2013/1...bei-der-y-dna/

    http://www.empereurperdu.com/forum/p...hp?f=47&t=5135
    Verhuell being Dutch, a country where I-M223 is common, he is indeed also a candidate for being Napoleon III's father. But he relationship with Hortense is not proven. I also think that he look less like Napoleon III than Flahaut, but who knows.

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    I had assumed Napoleon was a member of hg. E-- wasn't aware of this new information. Very interesting.

    If Napoleon and Tesla are indeed I2, I would have them first and second on the list. Crockett and President Johnson would also be top five in my opinion.

    P.S. I've always suspected Tesla was an I2. That's awesome!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armatus View Post
    What about adding the Barclay clan to the noble families section ? Most participiants with the actual Barclay surname tested I-L160, their TMRCA/Haplogroup fits the clan history (norman ancestry). The R1b section is mostly compromised of people with other surnames, plus they don't really match each other very closely.
    I'll look into it within the next few days. I recall reading some Russians claiming Barclay de Tolly as I2, but I wasn't able to dig up much info about it at that time. I probably wasn't looking in the right place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicquarreler View Post
    I had assumed Napoleon was a member of hg. E-- wasn't aware of this new information. Very interesting.

    If Napoleon and Tesla are indeed I2, I would have them first and second on the list. Crockett and President Johnson would also be top five in my opinion.
    Napoleon was E. Only Napoleon III was I2-M223 (provided that the information provided so far is accurate). Although, even so, he'd probably still be in the top 3 most famous figures in the list.

    If Maciamo is right and Talleyrand was on the same I2 line (although obviously we shouldn't take this as a given), we'd have another top 3 most famous figure IMHO. I know that even in America, he is given a prominent place in history books, although here it's mainly for instigating the XYZ Affair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    I'll look into it within the next few days. I recall reading some Russians claiming Barclay de Tolly as I2, but I wasn't able to dig up much info about it at that time. I probably wasn't looking in the right place.
    OK, I've looked a bit more into it, and I've come up empty-handed. Are there any particularly interesting I2a Barclay samples that prove a connection to one of the famous Barclay branches, like the Quaker/banker branch or the Barons of Towie/Barclay de Tolly branch? None in the Barclay DNA project seem to connect, and there are non-I2 Barclays mixed in to muddy the waters further. The spike of I2 among Barclays is indeed interesting, but doesn't show much by itself.

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    Minor update: Added Thomas Mudge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Minor update: Added Thomas Mudge.
    Thomas Mudge is a famous person only if you have a real obsession with watches and/or watch making.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Thomas Mudge is a famous person only if you have a real obsession with watches and/or watch making.
    He's the guy who invented the "tick tock" sound! Or at least the version of it typically associated with watches.

    That said, I stuck him in "Other Notable Scientists & Academics."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Indeed we rule! :) :)

    Yes, DUPCV is him. In coming months his result will be available on FTDNA too.
    Any word on Zhordania yet, Kardu?

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Someone pointed me to this Ysearch profile, who could be a descendant of Martin Luther. The haplogroup isn't mentioned but it looks like I2a.

    I checked the Luther Surname DNA Project and this haplotype is listed as an unknown Luther line from Germany.

    About half of all the Luthers in the project belong to I2a.

    According to his genealogy, Martin Luther descends from Wiegand von Luder (c.1396 - c.1456) from Thuringia.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 07-04-14 at 10:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Someone pointed me to this Ysearch profile, who could be a descendant of Martin Luther. The haplogroup isn't mentioned but it looks like I2a.

    I checked the Luther Surname DNA Project and this haplotype is listed as an unknown Luther line from Germany.

    About half of all the Luthers in the project belong to I2a.

    According to his genealogy, Martin Luther descends from Wiegand von Luder (c.1396 - c.1456) from Thuringia.
    Thanks, that would be huge if true. The subclade looks to be I2a-Din-N. Could Martin Luther's paternal ancestors have been Polabian Slavs?

    That said, I think I'll need to follow up before I determine whether to add him or just put him in the maybes. It looks like there's only one member of the German I2a Luther group who claims any relationship to Martin Luther.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Update: Added Martin Luther per confirmation from his relative Leo Luther, who claims a relationship with high certainty.

    Exploring Leo Luther's matches on ySearch turns up a lot of Czechs, Poles, and other Slavs, as well as Germans largely from Silesia and nearby.

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    Update: Promoted Napoleon III from the maybes to the main list now that the tested descendant has made his STRs public. They indeed get predicted by Cullen's Predictor to be I2-M223 with 100% certainty, and more specifically as I2-M223-Cont2 Z76+ CTS6433+, which probably puts him on the same branch as Davy Crockett.

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    New wiki wiki/Bernardo_de_Miera_y_Pacheco

    fyi

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    Country: USA - California





    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly111cute View Post
    New wiki wiki/Bernardo_de_Miera_y_Pacheco

    fyi
    Thanks, I had figured he deserved one. Now the M26 subclade officially has a notable representative who meets my minimum criteria.

    Any other famous I2-M26 out there? Anybody?

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