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Thread: Norwegian admixture - Caucasus

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    12-08-12
    Posts
    2


    Country: Norway



    Norwegian admixture - Caucasus

    I recently took the FTDNA Population finder, and got 67% Orcadian and 33% Russian. However, FTDNA's tool use very few comparison populations, so I took the raw data and used it on the most commonly used admixture calculators out there.

    Are the results normal for a Norwegian, so that they are just "background noise" or small admixture present in all the population? Or do I got more Caucasus, Central Asia, Baloch than average?

    If I look at each individual chromosome, I notice that the Caucasus and Baloch DNA is clustered at high % at some specific chromosomes, and some low(typical 4-8%) on the other chromosomes.

    Kalkulator Dodecad K12b:
    North_European 51.08
    Atlantic_Med 31.99
    Gedrosia 9.12
    Caucasus 5.72
    Siberian 1.67
    Southeast_Asian 0.24
    Southwest_Asian 0.18


    MDLP-K15:
    Celto-Germanic: 34.31%
    Balto-Slavic: 15.85%
    Balto-Finnic: 12.79%
    Iberian: 6.7%
    Balkanic1: 6.5%
    West-med: 6.25%
    Caucasian: 4.61%
    Paleo-North-European: 3.45%
    East med: 2.74%
    Uralic-Permic: 2.63%
    South-Central-Asian: 2%
    Balkanic-2: 1%
    Volga-Uralic: 0.89%
    East-Altaic: 0.28%
    West-Altaic:0%


    Kalkulator HarappaWorld:
    Baloch 9.57%
    Caucasian 5.89%
    NE-Euro 57.27%
    SE-Asian -
    Siberian 0.98%
    NE-Asian -
    Papuan 0.19%
    American 0.86%
    Beringian 0.72%
    Mediterranean 23.80%
    SW-Asian 0.73%




    -------------------------------


    Chromosomes HarappaWorld:
    Chromosome 21:
    21.9% Baluch
    5.9% Caucasian
    only 39.6% NE-euro


    Chromosome 22:
    13% Caucasian
    6% SW-Asian


    Chromosome 16,10,1:
    ~9-12% Baloch


    Chromosome 7:
    18.7% Baluch


    Chromosome Dodecad K12b:
    (Average" across chromosomes Cacasus ~= 4.5%)
    ("Average" across chromosomes Gedrosia ~= 8%)


    Chromosome 22:
    - Gedrosia 3.8%
    - Caucasus 18.1%


    Chromosome 21:
    - 19.6% Gedrosia
    - 8.2% Caucasus


    Chromosome 11:
    - 15.5% Caucasus
    - 10.2% Gedrosia


    chromosom , MDLP World-22 Admixture:


    Chromosome 21:
    - 34.0% West-Asian
    - 25.6% Atlantic_med_neolitic
    - 33.8% north-east-european


    Chromosome 11:
    18.5% West-asian


    Chromosome 7:
    18.1% West-Asian


    Chromosome 1:
    11.4% West-Asian

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    27-12-09
    Posts
    265


    Ethnic group
    English with some recent Norwegian and more distant Huguenot, and dashes from the 'Celtic Fringe'.
    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by drogin View Post
    I recently took the FTDNA Population finder, and got 67% Orcadian and 33% Russian. However, FTDNA's tool use very few comparison populations, so I took the raw data and used it on the most commonly used admixture calculators out there.

    Are the results normal for a Norwegian, so that they are just "background noise" or small admixture present in all the population? Or do I got more Caucasus, Central Asia, Baloch than average?

    If I look at each individual chromosome, I notice that the Caucasus and Baloch DNA is clustered at high % at some specific chromosomes, and some low(typical 4-8%) on the other chromosomes.

    Kalkulator Dodecad K12b:
    North_European 51.08
    Atlantic_Med 31.99
    Gedrosia 9.12
    Caucasus 5.72
    Siberian 1.67
    Southeast_Asian 0.24
    Southwest_Asian 0.18


    MDLP-K15:
    Celto-Germanic: 34.31%
    Balto-Slavic: 15.85%
    Balto-Finnic: 12.79%
    Iberian: 6.7%
    Balkanic1: 6.5%
    West-med: 6.25%
    Caucasian: 4.61%
    Paleo-North-European: 3.45%
    East med: 2.74%
    Uralic-Permic: 2.63%
    South-Central-Asian: 2%
    Balkanic-2: 1%
    Volga-Uralic: 0.89%
    East-Altaic: 0.28%
    West-Altaic:0%


    Kalkulator HarappaWorld:
    Baloch 9.57%
    Caucasian 5.89%
    NE-Euro 57.27%
    SE-Asian -
    Siberian 0.98%
    NE-Asian -
    Papuan 0.19%
    American 0.86%
    Beringian 0.72%
    Mediterranean 23.80%
    SW-Asian 0.73%




    -------------------------------


    Chromosomes HarappaWorld:
    Chromosome 21:
    21.9% Baluch
    5.9% Caucasian
    only 39.6% NE-euro


    Chromosome 22:
    13% Caucasian
    6% SW-Asian


    Chromosome 16,10,1:
    ~9-12% Baloch


    Chromosome 7:
    18.7% Baluch


    Chromosome Dodecad K12b:
    (Average" across chromosomes Cacasus ~= 4.5%)
    ("Average" across chromosomes Gedrosia ~= 8%)


    Chromosome 22:
    - Gedrosia 3.8%
    - Caucasus 18.1%


    Chromosome 21:
    - 19.6% Gedrosia
    - 8.2% Caucasus


    Chromosome 11:
    - 15.5% Caucasus
    - 10.2% Gedrosia


    chromosom , MDLP World-22 Admixture:


    Chromosome 21:
    - 34.0% West-Asian
    - 25.6% Atlantic_med_neolitic
    - 33.8% north-east-european


    Chromosome 11:
    18.5% West-asian


    Chromosome 7:
    18.1% West-Asian


    Chromosome 1:
    11.4% West-Asian
    I am no expert, and I do not know what the average Norwegian would score. However, I wonder if the links to populations like Balochs, Central Asian and Caucasus are there because your male ancestry is R1a1a-heavy? I am largely English from the Danelaw areas, with some more recent Norwegian ancestry and score 10.01% for East European admixture on DIY Dodecad. I'm told that the average UK score is around 4%. Again, this too may have something to do with Scandinavian levels of R1a1a ancestry in the genome.

  3. #3
    Elite member
    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    72
    Posts
    4,875

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    the presence of "gedrosian" or "baluch" in Western Europe doesn't seam linked only to Y-R1a (even if it's a good candidate for carrrying such genes) because it's found too among "celtic" peoples - I think it is surely linked to I-E tribes, and some of the Y-R1b of W-Europe could have taken these genes before their way to West, too -
    I have no certitude at all but it could support the thesis of a South Caspian origin of I-E languages or an early station there by a lot of the first I-E speakers - let's wait a little more yet?
    &: ? or only contact between "italo-celts" Y-R1b and steppic Y-R1a (Corded) where only female DNA would be passed to "Celts"??? hum hum!!! very uncredible - and Basques have too some "gedrosian" our "baluch", I believe...

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    1,040

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Yes
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Yes

    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    the presence of "gedrosian" or "baluch" in Western Europe doesn't seam linked only to Y-R1a (even if it's a good candidate for carrrying such genes) because it's found too among "celtic" peoples - I think it is surely linked to I-E tribes, and some of the Y-R1b of W-Europe could have taken these genes before their way to West, too -
    I have no certitude at all but it could support the thesis of a South Caspian origin of I-E languages or an early station there by a lot of the first I-E speakers - let's wait a little more yet?
    &: ? or only contact between "italo-celts" Y-R1b and steppic Y-R1a (Corded) where only female DNA would be passed to "Celts"??? hum hum!!! very uncredible - and Basques have too some "gedrosian" our "baluch", I believe...
    Gedrosian matches very well to both, R1b and centum within europe, but exactly not to R1a. Caucasus matches within Europe well to R1a, satem and some neolithic expansions, but exactly not to R1b. Only the Basques do not fit in the IE-explanation because they do not speak indo-european. So the very high gedrosian admixture in Basques could be explained by the same way as Maciamo explains the basque R1b (which is also very high). But it is no perfect explanation, yet there is no better available so far. I personally tend to associate Gedrosian and R1b origins also with the aral sea region as opposed to the caucasus region, but it is all speculation. I also would not yet entirely abandon a paleolithic explanation for gedrosian admixture in west and north europe, despite it has not been found in ancient samples. European gedrosia admixture is a very interesting riddle.

  5. #5
    Elite member
    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    72
    Posts
    4,875

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    Gedrosian matches very well to both, R1b and centum within europe, but exactly not to R1a. Caucasus matches within Europe well to R1a, satem and some neolithic expansions, but exactly not to R1b. Only the Basques do not fit in the IE-explanation because they do not speak indo-european. So the very high gedrosian admixture in Basques could be explained by the same way as Maciamo explains the basque R1b (which is also very high). But it is no perfect explanation, yet there is no better available so far. I personally tend to associate Gedrosian and R1b origins also with the aral sea region as opposed to the caucasus region, but it is all speculation. I also would not yet entirely abandon a paleolithic explanation for gedrosian admixture in west and north europe, despite it has not been found in ancient samples. European gedrosia admixture is a very interesting riddle.
    I disagree in NO way with you here - but I was thinking some Y-R1a-Y-R1b could have merged at ancient times, in SW-SIberia >> E-Ukraina on the way to West (I give no timing because I have not the data for)- keep in mind some old and rare modesl of R1a found only among Celts and Germanics - surely the Y-R1a common among Slavs can be a later 'big boom' occurred at contact zones between steppic peoples and other W-Asians different (more Cuacaus centred) from Gedrosia - and as you say, all that is still all speculation - good afternoon -

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