Are R1a and R1b really Indo-Europeans ?

[Taranis]

the fact that r1b became redhead and r1a became blonde shows that they were apart for a few thousand years to acheive that kind of phenotype dichotomy.

The Y-haplogroups R1a/R1b certainly didn't become either. The genes determining hair color are not located on the Y-chromosome. If that was the case, only men could have red or blond hair... :wink:

 

[kamani]

The genes determining hair color are not located on the Y-chromosome. If that was the case, only men could have red or blond hair... :wink:

haha, correct. But the phenotype-yDna association still exists for these groups, at least in a european context, so they become representatives of a bigger dna package.

 

[Yetos]

But how come that all those various haplogroups and/or subgroups started to talk Proto-IE? When? Where?

Still the question remains: was pre-protoIE ethnic language of some tribe/subhaplogroup which managed to spread it around, or it was a lingua franca like let's say Swahili...

that is the big problem,
From arcaiology we can not hear what people spoke that time,
Even cultures with written speech we can not find what they are telling us, (example Mycenean Minoan Linear A and B, One can not be read yet)

so by Agriculture expand, or arsenic bronze expand, or horses and chariots, or iirigation, or Gold or Copper expand, even architectural simmilarities we are trying to guess where and when,
Also Exist the linguistic methods which to a very good point give good results but always solve part of problem,

Most academic show Eurasian steppe or minor Asia - North Middle East or South west Caucas,
yet Caucasian and Gedrosian component also in theories.


PS
Personally I am starting to think searching about Europe and Varna, but no gennetical yet,

 

[kamani]

This has probably been mentioned before, but I noticed a strange overlap of G and R1b in europe and west asia. Coincidentally, etruscans are believed to have been G and most neolithic european dna is G. The countries with highest hg G speak caucasian languages.

 

[MOESAN]

overlap: all these Y DNA overlap on upon another in some proportion - I think the opposite: R1b & G have very few in common history, for me

 

[tiami]

R1b and I brother haplgroups, true mediterranian and european!!! VENETO ROMAN!!!
J is semitic, not related to them.

 

[Ricardo Canedo]

The most likely explanation for the Basques being R1b even though they are not Indo European speaker is that in some moment an Indo European Speaker Tribe invaded and conquered the Basque Country and having brought no women with them married local women and then the women raised their children in the their culture instead of the one of their fathers. This makes sense since the Basques's mtdna haplogroups are not the ones of the Indo Europeans.

 

[JajarBingan]

Thus far, it would seem so.