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Thread: OFFTOPIC from "Are R1a and R1b really Indo-Europeans ?"

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    OFFTOPIC from "Are R1a and R1b really Indo-Europeans ?"

    Taranis what do you think about Summerian-Akkadian and IE and Turkish,

    I mean in Greco-Aryan we have kurdish anahitta and Greek ανακα as King-ruller officer
    in Homeric we se Achaians = kings comparing with etymologies
    Persian achamenides Greek Agamemnon (Achileus is also strange, means sound of lion in clear Greek but King of many people via Summerian-Akkadian, many people = Myrioi myrioi Myr+Myr+dones(sumerian plural)
    In India we have the Sachs
    in German the Saxons
    but what about Celts?
    if I connect the etymology of Gaull with Sumerian I get gal+lu means also kings sachs saxons achaians.
    same word-root also found in Slavic Golyam = Big huge and in Greek following possible the summerian plural
    we see μεγας and γιγας and when comes to noun we see μεγαλειον

    to go more, the Sumerrian Kur means mountain
    by what we see
    Kurds = mountain people (another etymology via strong-clear Greek is κουρητες = armed dancers)
    Ur - Hur Ar-menians = mountain people
    the word exist in Greek as ορος and κορυφη (as one word or 2 kur+υβος, bump of mountain)
    also in Slavic as Goran = mountain
    and strangely in S-west Europe as Sierra
    yet in the other hand we see Turkish top of mountain as Dag teppe which may be co-insidence or relatine to Esthonian mae tippi and North Europes Top connectivity with Turkic, but mountain to Dag to oros to kur???
    or Turkic teppe comes from IE up - ober επι+ανω.

    so what we need is to search the role of Summerian and Akkadian (akka means king = acha aga sax sach gallu) in IE
    and believe me the connectivity is enough,

    about the model of Renfrew I agree with you that words like copper chariot (αρμα) should evolute tottaly different if IE was a pre-chalcolithic time spread,
    from arcaiologists we know the arsenic bronze road from Maykop to Danube, but after the new arcaiological evidences of older Kurgans we can not combine Kurgans with Steppe people, but with Balkanic and minor Asian-middle East people.

    so we use the arsenic bronze road to explain as possible IE .
    but what about the gold road,
    no matter the believes of ancient Greeks that gold mettalurgy was around Georgia and Laz we see that gold mettalurgy was started in Balkans and is older than many known elder civilizations, we consider previous,
    but from Balkans and varna gold reach deep in steppe people much before the discovery of Bronze.

    also lets see another group, hunters and farmers, steppe people and town-cities people
    in the hunters of the North we see many Uralian and Danae-Turkic languages, as also in steppe people
    but in south Europe except Etruscans and Hattians (for me they are the same people) we don't see that.
    remember Greece has almost 0% Altaic marks,
    so IE seems to be more a town-city like language than an open steppe or hunting society language.

    to make my shelf more clear,

    4 words 1 meaning
    the original Greek is ανθος (flower)
    but in modern Greek we see the word λουλουδiα (mostly plural) especially in thracian traditional sonds,
    in West Europe again mostly in plural we see Lillies and simmilar
    in Turkic we see the Lale - lalle as flower,
    in Summerian is Liligi (clear plural)
    so the word is what?
    IE and enter Summerian and Turkic?
    Turkic and enter Summerian and IE?
    Summerian and entered both?
    we can use the Nostradic theory and say that Summerian Turkic and IE are Altaic languages,
    But Nostradic is tottaly off in case of Summerian Kur Gal as I wrote above,
    that could mean that words Kur and Gal are loan to Summerian.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Taranis what do you think about Summerian-Akkadian and IE and Turkish,

    I mean in Greco-Aryan we have kurdish anahitta and Greek ανακα as King-ruller officer
    in Homeric we se Achaians = kings comparing with etymologies
    Persian achamenides Greek Agamemnon (Achileus is also strange, means sound of lion in clear Greek but King of many people via Summerian-Akkadian, many people = Myrioi myrioi Myr+Myr+dones(sumerian plural)
    In India we have the Sachs
    in German the Saxons
    but what about Celts?
    if I connect the etymology of Gaull with Sumerian I get gal+lu means also kings sachs saxons achaians.
    same word-root also found in Slavic Golyam = Big huge and in Greek following possible the summerian plural
    we see μεγας and γιγας and when comes to noun we see μεγαλειον

    to go more, the Sumerrian Kur means mountain



    by what we see
    Kurds = mountain people (another etymology via strong-clear Greek is κουρητες = armed dancers)
    Ur - Hur Ar-menians = mountain people
    the word exist in Greek as ορος and κορυφη (as one word or 2 kur+υβος, bump of mountain)
    also in Slavic as Goran = mountain
    and strangely in S-west Europe as Sierra
    yet in the other hand we see Turkish top of mountain as Dag teppe which may be co-insidence or relatine to Esthonian mae tippi and North Europes Top connectivity with Turkic, but mountain to Dag to oros to kur???
    or Turkic teppe comes from IE up - ober επι+ανω.

    so what we need is to search the role of Summerian and Akkadian (akka means king = acha aga sax sach gallu) in IE
    and believe me the connectivity is enough,

    about the model of Renfrew I agree with you that words like copper chariot (αρμα) should evolute tottaly different if IE was a pre-chalcolithic time spread,
    from arcaiologists we know the arsenic bronze road from Maykop to Danube, but after the new arcaiological evidences of older Kurgans we can not combine Kurgans with Steppe people, but with Balkanic and minor Asian-middle East people.

    so we use the arsenic bronze road to explain as possible IE .
    but what about the gold road,
    no matter the believes of ancient Greeks that gold mettalurgy was around Georgia and Laz we see that gold mettalurgy was started in Balkans and is older than many known elder civilizations, we consider previous,
    but from Balkans and varna gold reach deep in steppe people much before the discovery of Bronze.

    also lets see another group, hunters and farmers, steppe people and town-cities people
    in the hunters of the North we see many Uralian and Danae-Turkic languages, as also in steppe people
    but in south Europe except Etruscans and Hattians (for me they are the same people) we don't see that.
    remember Greece has almost 0% Altaic marks,
    so IE seems to be more a town-city like language than an open steppe or hunting society language.

    to make my shelf more clear,

    4 words 1 meaning
    the original Greek is ανθος (flower)
    but in modern Greek we see the word λουλουδiα (mostly plural) especially in thracian traditional sonds,
    in West Europe again mostly in plural we see Lillies and simmilar
    in Turkic we see the Lale - lalle as flower,
    in Summerian is Liligi (clear plural)
    so the word is what?
    IE and enter Summerian and Turkic?
    Turkic and enter Summerian and IE?
    Summerian and entered both?
    we can use the Nostradic theory and say that Summerian Turkic and IE are Altaic languages,
    But Nostradic is tottaly off in case of Summerian Kur Gal as I wrote above,
    that could mean that words Kur and Gal are loan to Summerian.
    Yetos, you seam having a large knowledge of different languages vocabulary but could you give more intermediary (between) forms when you give us ranges of words "etymologies" ?-
    I have the impression you see links a bit everywhere between the languages, no matter which of them: to search is a good thing, to conclude too hastly a bad one - no offense
    'meG-' is something, 'Gal-' an other one, do'nt link 'meGal' with 'Gal-', please; the same doubt about 'Ach-' (*'Hach-'?), 'Sach-' or 'Kur'/'Ur'/'Gor'...
    , or perhaps I lacked something?
    Maybe your way of writing in a shortened or hopping way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Taranis what do you think about Summerian-Akkadian and IE and Turkish
    Full stop.

    - There is no "Akkadian-Sumerian language": Akkadian is a Semitic language. Before comparing any Akkadian word with Indo-European, or anything else, you should start looking into other Semitic languages (eg. Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic).

    - Sumerian is treated as an isolate language. If you want to demonstrate that Sumerian has a closer relationship with any other language or language families (which, mind you, a lot of people have attempted before you), you better demonstrate how the various Sumerian sounds correspond regularly to those in the other language, and just not randomly compare words.

    - the Turkic languages are much younger (Proto-Turkic is an iron age language, somewhat comparable in age to the Germanic languages). I think it has no relevance in this discussion, unless you can demonstrate to us that the Turkic languages are substantially older, and you can point us to any evidence that Turkic languages were in Europe or the Near East in the 2nd or 3rd millennium BC...

    - You claimed Etruscan and Hattian are "the same": demonstrate it. Demonstrate to us how Etruscan words correspond with Hattian words.

    Also, a lot of those examples that you gave are what I would like to call "magic word dismantling", which, no offense, isn't linguistics: you compare supferificially similar words from different times from languages geographically far apart with no form of coherent methodology behind.

    Mind my words next time you post something like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentel View Post
    I had written a very developped answer to Taranis but have lost everything when sending the post I will have to take it back from the beginning, sorry for delaying my answer...
    I'm sorry to hear that. Please, take your time. I have expirienced the same problem in the past: if nothing else goes, I would suggest writing more lengthier posts in a text editing program and copy-and-paste them in.
    Last edited by Taranis; 16-01-13 at 16:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    Full stop.

    - There is no "Akkadian-Sumerian language": Akkadian is a Semitic language. Before comparing any Akkadian word with Indo-European, or anything else, you should start looking into other Semitic languages (eg. Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic).
    True, but how you explain that word Akka = King in Akkadian, is acha -aga -sach in IE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    - Sumerian is treated as an isolate language. If you want to demonstrate that Sumerian has a closer relationship with any other language or language families (which, mind you, a lot of people have attempted before you), you better demonstrate how the various Sumerian sounds correspond regularly to those in the other language, and just not randomly compare words.
    yes but Summerian language before is also treated also as Nostradic and hurro-Urartian Language,


    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    - the Turkic languages are much younger (Proto-Turkic is an iron age language, somewhat comparable in age to the Germanic languages). I think it has no relevance in this discussion, unless you can demonstrate to us that the Turkic languages are substantially older, and you can point us to any evidence that Turkic languages were in Europe or the Near East in the 2nd or 3rd millennium BC...
    what about Basquez? isn't a Danae-turkic language?
    so when Basquez proto spoken in Europe?
    before or after IE?

    If Basquez is a Danae-Turkic language and was spoken before Ie you have your evidence.
    If Basquez is a Danae Turkic language and was spoken after IE then from where came? East or North?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    - You claimed Etruscan and Hattian are "the same": demonstrate it. Demonstrate to us how Etruscan words correspond with Hattian words.
    I said for me, so I claim nothing, But can you prove the opposite? Νο you can not also prove that Hattians and Etruscans are not the same, yet from geographical terms, Historical terms archaiological terms and even limited linguistic we know Etruscans (Pelasgians) and Hattians are connected and meet in W minor Asia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    Also, a lot of those examples that you gave are what I would like to call "magic word dismantling", which, no offense, isn't linguistics: you compare supferificially similar words from different times from languages geographically far apart with no form of coherent methodology behind.
    I agree, I use no coherent methodology,
    But do I need one to compare Slavic Golyam with Summerian Gal and biblical Goliath?
    Do I need a coherent methodology when I see that Summerian Kur cognates with Slavic Gor and Greek Ορος-Κορυφη? same sound same meaning, what can be more simple than that?
    we do not speak here about aspirations laws etc, we speak about clear same meaning and almost same sound,[/QUOTE]


    My big question, which I may did pass on my post is this

    If these words that I mention are Loans from Summerian to IE then when did they enter since we probably have no Summerian Invasion in Europe?
    and the opposite if IE were steppe language then how come these words enter Summerian? (pre-Summerian entrance to middle East?)
    on the other hand IE language may enter to steppe By Tocharians, ( I use may in case of missunderstanding)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Yetos, you seam having a large knowledge of different languages vocabulary but could you give more intermediary (between) forms when you give us ranges of words "etymologies" ?-
    I have the impression you see links a bit everywhere between the languages, no matter which of them: to search is a good thing, to conclude too hastly a bad one - no offense
    'meG-' is something, 'Gal-' an other one, do'nt link 'meGal' with 'Gal-', please; the same doubt about 'Ach-' (*'Hach-'?), 'Sach-' or 'Kur'/'Ur'/'Gor'...
    , or perhaps I lacked something?
    Maybe your way of writing in a shortened or hopping way?
    ok I will not connect the noun μεγαλειον with Gal

    but lets the other
    Greek Μεγα (me ga = big )
    Greek Γιγα (gi ga = giant)
    means root -ga is connected with the meaning of Big

    as we see again we find in 2 words the ga missing the l,
    comparing with Slavic Golyam and Summerian Gal, do you believe is a diabolic co-insidence?

    What I want to express is that until today we consider IE as steppe language and was connected with Uralian languages,
    But from what it seems IE is also connected with Akkadian and especially with Summerian.
    so If IE was a North steppe language that entered Europe at 2800-3500 BC how come we see so many connections with Summerian?
    that means either IE as steppe language enter Summeria much before,
    or Summerian enter steppe before the above dates.
    or IE was a neighbor or passed from Summeria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    ok I will not connect the noun μεγαλειον with Gal

    but lets the other
    Greek Μεγα (me ga = big )
    Greek Γιγα (gi ga = giant)
    means root -ga is connected with the meaning of Big

    as we see again we find in 2 words the ga missing the l,
    comparing with Slavic Golyam and Summerian Gal, do you believe is a diabolic co-insidence?
    Golyam seems not to be slavic. According to google translator only Bulgarian and Macedonian use this word. Slavs use other words.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I have moved this discussion offtopic because it departs from the original thread topic. The original thread can be still found here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    True, but how you explain that word Akka = King in Akkadian, is acha -aga -sach in IE?
    "akka" is not the Akkadian word for 'king'. Wherever source you got that from, it's wrong: the actual Akkadian word for king is "malku", which is a cognate with Arabic "malik".

    I agree, I use no coherent methodology,
    As a German proverb goes, self-awareness is the first step towards betterment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    Golyam seems not to be slavic. According to google translator only Bulgarian and Macedonian use this word. Slavs use other words.
    Then the word golyam since is not turkic is Thracian? that makes more clear way from Anatolia than from North Welico - Veliko

    also the word Wel-ico or Wiel-ico which is the North Slavic what difference has?
    W many times in many IE languages transforms to Γ.

    So Golyam and Wel-iko is the same word and you know it. in Greek alphabet are Γολ-ιαμ(Bul) and Γελ-ικο(Poland) and Γαλ (Summerian)

    So El Horsto which is the word road?
    From Poland Wel -Wiel-ico to Bulgarian (or Thracian?) Golyam to Summerian Gal? or from Summerian to Poland?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    So Golyam and Wel-iko is the same word and you know it.

    in Greek alphabet are Γολ-ιαμ(Bul) and Γελ-ικο(Poland) and Γαλ (Summerian)
    Interesting, I never would have expected Gol and Wel to be related. But I'm not so familiar with linguistics.

    But then why do both words (velik, goliam) still exist in parallel in Bulgarian if velik is derived from goliam? I checked google translate for the english word 'great' and then both bulgarian words were listed as alternatives, whereas 'goliam' means to be physically big and 'velik' rather means greatness in a non-physical sense, similar to the difference between english 'big' and 'great'.

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    @Yetos:
    Meanwhile I played more with google. Have you checked what 'gol' really means in bulgarian? It means 'naked'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    I have moved this discussion offtopic because it departs from the original thread topic. The original thread can be still found here.



    "akka" is not the Akkadian word for 'king'. Wherever source you got that from, it's wrong: the actual Akkadian word for king is "malku", which is a cognate with Arabic "malik".



    As a German proverb goes, self-awareness is the first step towards betterment.
    I agree taranis and I expect you to act as German,

    from Wiki the most easy to search

    The etymology of a-ga-dè is unclear but not of Akkadian origin. Sumerian, Hurrian and Lullubean etymologies have been proposed instead

    a ga de = Kings nation ,
    so how IE existed south of Caucas much before hettit?

    I think you know what i am talking about,

    Uruk and Orcho-menos are known Hattian in Greek, which later moved to Italy.

    Now a good focus the word Ar-ca-dia which is the translation of Akkadia in Greek
    I think Taranis you know what Arch means Greek (Arch-angel Arch-devil Αρχ-ηγος Αρχαι (rulers authorities)

    So Akkadians might Be pre-Semitic but their vocabulary as the word aus = out outer exist also in IE words,
    and Akka means King as you see.
    Last edited by Yetos; 18-01-13 at 02:24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    I think you know what i am talking about,
    I think I do. You mean that Greeks came from Anatolia, and the rest of IE from steppes. That's why Greek sounds like Greek to us.

    Goliam is a semitic word derived from mythical Goliath, and probably entered Bulgarian and Macedonian from Bible, or Greek Orthodox teachings. Clearly it has no slavic roots.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I think I do. You mean that Greeks came from Anatolia, and the rest of IE from steppes. That's why Greek sounds like Greek to us.

    Goliam is a semitic word derived from mythical Goliath, and probably entered Bulgarian and Macedonian from Bible, or Greek Orthodox teachings. Clearly it has no slavic roots.
    hahaha nice joke Le brok,

    Goliath is a Pelasgian name,
    Goliam is not Semitic but Summerian relative,
    Summerian language is not Semitic
    no ever linguist connect Semitic with Summerian,
    mainly with Nostradic or Hurro-Urartian
    mean close enough to steppe languages or to IE, but never to Semitic,

    and since exist in Bulgarian and Slavic Makedonian could be from Thracian origin, Before Slavs
    which as you say about Greeks could mean the same, that except Greeks, Thracian could also came from Anatolia,

    besides the difference among Wieli and Goli is just an aspisration, Polish Wieli could be same with Bulgarian Goli.
    a sound that aspirates dropes or shifts,

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    @Yetos:
    Meanwhile I played more with google. Have you checked what 'gol' really means in bulgarian? It means 'naked'.
    i think it is cognate with OHG "kalo" (naked)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    hahaha nice joke Le brok,

    Goliath is a Pelasgian name,
    Goliam is not Semitic but Summerian relative,
    Summerian language is not Semitic
    no ever linguist connect Semitic with Summerian,
    mainly with Nostradic or Hurro-Urartian
    mean close enough to steppe languages or to IE, but never to Semitic,

    and since exist in Bulgarian and Slavic Makedonian could be from Thracian origin, Before Slavs
    which as you say about Greeks could mean the same, that except Greeks, Thracian could also came from Anatolia,

    besides the difference among Wieli and Goli is just an aspisration, Polish Wieli could be same with Bulgarian Goli.
    a sound that aspirates dropes or shifts,
    I wouldn't put much weight in name Goliath, whatever the original name was, it was written by Jews in their alphabet and many years later from oral records (and we know how reliable it is), then translated to Greek, probably with another spelling twist, than to english, and we all know how crafty English with names. Original name might have been Gandolth lol, or Gorat, or Gorian if it had slavic roots, the man big like a mountain. BTW, it's Garut in arabic.

    Wieli and Goli is just an aspisration, Polish Wieli could be same with Bulgarian Goli.
    No, in both languages Wieli means big or many, Goli means something naked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I wouldn't put much weight in name Goliath, whatever the original name was, it was written by Jews in their alphabet and many years later from oral records (and we know how reliable it is), then translated to Greek, probably with another spelling twist, than to english, and we all know how crafty English with names. Original name might have been Gandolth lol, or Gorat, or Gorian if it had slavic roots, the man big like a mountain. BTW, it's Garut in arabic.


    No, in both languages Wieli means big or many, Goli means something naked.
    the translation of O' gives Γολιαθ and he was a giant
    goliam of south Slavic also means big gigantic
    so it is obvious the same sound and meaning,
    it can be explained by using Summerian and Hattian
    Gal + (h)ath

    remember in Greek the word for human is Ανθρωπος a(n)th+ ro (ru) +-pos
    etruscan if Hatian language is also ath+ru+can

    so goliath is Gal+(h)ath = big man = giant
    no Gandalf no Golum

    Le Brok NO, try again the word Golyam in Cyrillic голям, it does not mean naked
    there is your answer
    wielki голям are more close among them than Μεγας Magnus Big Grande madh mets
    (except if is relative to Turkish Soyltan Soylu Ulu = noble?)


    golyam and wielky could be from Thracian to Slavic?

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    Reply

    Please be aware that I know almost nothing about ancient languages, so I may sound like a bull in a China shop here. But what about these terms that seem to have similiar roots...

    1. Baltic and Balkans-- I know that the Baltic was originally Mare Suebian (named after the Suebi tribe)
    2. Goliath and Goy--the term used by Jews/and or Yiddish speakers to denote non-Jews

    Is there something to these?
    Last edited by nordicwarrior; 18-01-13 at 03:47. Reason: add word

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Le Brok NO, try again the word Golyam in Cyrillic голям, it does not mean naked
    there is your answer
    wielki голям are more close among them than Μεγας Magnus Big Grande
    golyam and wielky could be from Thracian to Slavic?
    Geez Yetos stop this, Wielki doesn't have anything to do with Goliam, if it sounds close, it's only in your head.
    And it didn't enter all slavic but only Bulgarians, and nobody knows when. Your wild speculations don't help your cause, so far you didn't manage to convince anyone.
    Nobody said that Goliam means naked, naked was a response to your "root" Goli. Do you see the difference?

    I don't even remember why you brought it up, what relevance does it make? Are you proving that because of Golyam IE came from Anatolia? You might need way more than that. Why are you trying to connect it to Slavic, we know that Slavs didn't come from Anatolia, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Geez Yetos stop this, Wielki doesn't have anything to do with Goliam, if it sounds close, it's only in your head.
    And it didn't enter all slavic but only Bulgarians, and nobody knows when. Your wild speculations don't help your cause, so far you didn't manage to convince anyone.
    Nobody said that Goliam means naked, naked was a response to your "root" Goli. Do you see the difference?

    I don't even remember why you brought it up, what relevance does it make? Are you proving that because of Golyam IE came from Anatolia? You might need way more than that. Why are you trying to connect it to Slavic, we know that Slavs didn't come from Anatolia, right?
    why you always do that to me,

    simply in IE vocabulary we find connection with Summerian and Turkic and Uraloid languages.
    but in Greece wich has almost 0% Altaic component that Turkic is missing,
    so how come IE came from steppe when Turkic element are missing from Greek, but Summerian exists?

    that is my question.

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    Simple. Turkic homeland was far away in far East Asia, check the maps of Turkic homeland, and they started growing in power and spreading only after year 0, in AD period. By that time IE where already in Europe for 2 thousand years. We are talking about big distances in space and time. By the same token, you can start looking for Chinese words in IE vocabulary.
    There is no chance that Turks could influence IE language, till they got close during times of Ottoman empire. And they only influenced Balkans.

    Also, I don't think there is any Sumerian influence over Slavic, Germanic or even Celtic IE spectrum. On other hand you will find Sumerian influence on Greek, or protogreek, because of close distance and contacts about 4,000 years ago.

    To prove your point find same Sumerian words, not only in Greek or even Balkans, but also in other IE branches. If they lived in Anatolia close to Sumerians, which was powerful and very influential, they must have learned many, and I mean many, Sumerian words. Where are these words?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    the translation of O' gives Γολιαθ and he was a giant
    goliam of south Slavic also means big gigantic
    so it is obvious the same sound and meaning,
    it can be explained by using Summerian and Hattian
    Gal + (h)ath

    remember in Greek the word for human is Ανθρωπος a(n)th+ ro (ru) +-pos
    etruscan if Hatian language is also ath+ru+can

    so goliath is Gal+(h)ath = big man = giant
    no Gandalf no Golum

    Le Brok NO, try again the word Golyam in Cyrillic голям, it does not mean naked
    there is your answer
    wielki голям are more close among them than Μεγας Magnus Big Grande madh mets
    (except if is relative to Turkish Soyltan Soylu Ulu = noble?)


    golyam and wielky could be from Thracian to Slavic?
    Yetos, stop this. What you're doing has nothing to do with linguistics. You cherrypick words from languages from quite different parts of the world, from different time slices, and from these you make assumptions which have no basis what so ever. You might as well try to convince us that Albanian is a Native American language, such a claim wouldn't be any more outlandish. Worse yet, you randomly break apart words even if these do not represent compounds. I've called this 'magic word dismantling' before, and you're not the first to do this. It has nothing to do with linguistic methodology, it's just pseudoscience. The worst part is that you're just confusing other board members, and you regularly jump into topics and start with these wild comparisons that are really completely out of context. For their well-being, I must ask you to stop this.

    And frankly, consider yourself hereby officially warned.

    Quote Originally Posted by nordicwarrior View Post
    Please be aware that I know almost nothing about ancient languages, so I may sound like a bull in a China shop here. But what about these terms that seem to have similiar roots...

    1. Baltic and Balkans-- I know that the Baltic was originally Mare Suebian (named after the Suebi tribe)
    2. Goliath and Goy--the term used by Jews/and or Yiddish speakers to denote non-Jews

    Is there something to these?
    The word "Balkans" is of Turkic origin. There's also a "Balkan" mountains in Turkmenistan.

    The word "Baltic" derives from the Baltic word for "white" (Latvian "balts", Lithuanian "baltas") and has cognates in other branches of Indo-European (all from a common root *bhel-), including:

    - Albanian "ballë" (forehead)
    - Celtic (the Irish festival name 'Beltaine', deity names "Belisama" and "Belenos")
    - Greek "phalakos" (bald)
    - English "bale" (antiquated word for 'fire')
    - Slavic (Polish "biały", which means 'white' just like in Latvian/Lithuanian, also for instance found in the town name "Bialystok").

    But, I might explain here how things work: the basic idea of the comparative method in linguistics is this (I'm trying to explain this as simple as possible):

    - a sound X in language A corresponds regularly to sound Y in language B.

    - when a change in a language happens, it affects ALL words in the vocabulary of a language, with no exceptions.

    - if there are exceptions, these are governed by their own set of rules (for example, a change happens only at the beginning of a word, etc.)

    - languages have no memory of changes that happened to them in the past. That is, if you have the sound A and B changed to sound C and then later changed into a sound D, the language will not distinguish wether sound C arose from A or B.


    English Old Irish Latin
    father athair pater
    fish íasc piscis
    foot ed* pes (plural "pedes")

    *Note that "ed" has it's meaning changed to "distance" or "interval", which makes sense considering that in English the length unit "foot" exists, which if you think about it has a similar meaning. What you can see is that English (a Germanic language) *f- corresponds regularly to Latin *p- and to a missing letter in Old Irish. If we now compare the word for 'father' in other Indo-European languages (Armenian "hayr", Greek "pateras", Hindi "pita", Persian "pedar"), we find that *p is the most common and most probably the original condition, which is preserved in most branches of the Indo-European languages, but shifted to *f in the Germanic languages, shifted to *h in Armenian, and disappearing in the Celtic languages.

    And that's, in a nutshell, how it works.
    Last edited by Taranis; 18-01-13 at 18:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post

    4 words 1 meaning
    the original Greek is ανθος (flower)
    but in modern Greek we see the word λουλουδiα (mostly plural) especially in thracian traditional sonds,
    in West Europe again mostly in plural we see Lillies and simmilar
    in Turkic we see the Lale - lalle as flower,
    in Summerian is Liligi (clear plural)
    so the word is what?
    IE and enter Summerian and Turkic?
    Turkic and enter Summerian and IE?
    The word origin is the Albanian noun: lule=flower
    The real root of the word is the syllable lu which carries a primitive meaning of movement (growing, blooming):
    b-loo-m=lu-lëzoj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post

    - languages have no memory of changes that happened to them in the past. That is, if you have the sound A and B changed to sound C and then later changed into a sound D, the language will not distinguish wether sound C arose from A or B.


    English Old Irish Latin
    father athair pater
    I disagree with this. This word differs from language to language, but what do they have in common is the cluster at(ad):
    πατέρας(new greek)
    father(eng)
    отец(Russian)
    padre(ital)
    vater(german)
    vader(dutch)
    pater(mycenian)
    padre(Spanish)

    There is only one language which has this unchanged and this is Albanian:
    at-ë=father
    Apparently this is the original word for every old Europian, and that's the result of an onomatopeic transformation:
    ta-ta-ta
    which is the a child babble.
    Last edited by Zeus10; 18-01-13 at 19:07.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus10 View Post
    The word origin is the Albanian noun: lule=flower
    The real root of the word is the syllable lu which carries a primitive meaning of movement (growing, blooming):
    b-loo-m=lu-lëzoj
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus10 View Post
    I dissagre with this. This word differs from language to language, but what do they have in common is the cluster at(ad):
    πατέρας(new greek)
    father(eng)
    отец(Russian)
    padre(ital)
    vater(german)
    vader(dutch)
    pater(mycenian)
    padre(Spanish)

    There is only one language which has this unchanged and this is Albanian:
    at-ë=father
    Apparently this is the original word for every old Europian, and that's the result of an onomatopeic transformation:
    ta-ta-ta
    which is the a child babble.
    So after I have scolded one gentleman who practices magic word dismantlement, the next one steps in? It must be Friday...

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