Will all people of the world mix creating one race in the future?

[Aberdeen]

Corded, mediterrenian, alpine, mongoloid, some of negroes from Africa...
But probably the other races were absorbed by lighter types, and that
means, that probably the lighter types were much more numerous than
the darker ones. In south Europe or in Asia, the absorbtion was differet:
darker were probably more numeriuos than lighter types.

p.s. Kardu - Georgians for us in Europe, are a pretty dark people...

That's true - I think the average white person looking at a typical Georgian would classify them as being of mixed race. But hopefully Georgians would not be treated differently because of that.

 

[Rethel]

I'm all for people developing and enjoying national identities - I like mine. I just don't want to dictate to other people that they have to stay in the cultural mould they were born in if they aren't comfortable there.

I think that in this discussion has place some misunderstanding.
Maybe the topic should be diverse in two parts:
1) personal, spontanious choices of peoples, which have exist always and no one had never nothing against it - f.e. Pushkin and his grandfather.
2) massive invasion of people from diffrent culture and race background plus political indoctrination about cultural and race mixing - see Ainu case.

 

[LeBrok]

Corded, mediterrenian, alpine, mongoloid, some of negroes from Africa...
But probably the other races were absorbed by lighter types, and that
means, that probably the lighter types were much more numerous than
the darker ones. In south Europe or in Asia the absorbtion was different:
darker were probably more numerous than lighter types.

Actually, the whitening of Europeans was a long and local process, which pretty much ended just now. Whitening alleles coming from many populations, eventually accumulating in North Europe due to natural selection.
Check our previous discussions. Interesting stuff.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30797-Mesolithic-man-Loschbour-brought-back-to-life
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30957-Mesolithic-source-of-Pale-pigmentation-in-modern-Europe
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30570-Ancient-DNA-from-Hungary-Christine-Gamba-et-al

 

[Kardu]

That's true - I think the average white person looking at a typical Georgian would classify them as being of mixed race. But hopefully Georgians would not be treated differently because of that.

Idiotic remark. Have you even seen a Georgian in your life?

 

[Kardu]

Actually, the whitening of Europeans was a long and local process, which pretty much ended just now. Whitening alleles coming from many populations, eventually accumulating in North Europe due to natural selection.
Check our previous discussions. Interesting stuff.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30797-Mesolithic-man-Loschbour-brought-back-to-life
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30957-Mesolithic-source-of-Pale-pigmentation-in-modern-Europe
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30570-Ancient-DNA-from-Hungary-Christine-Gamba-et-al

And all those folks freely and happily mixed? I have the feeling that I am talking to a wall...

 

[Rethel]

Actually, the whitening of Europeans was a long and local process, which pretty much ended just now. Whitening alleles coming from many populations, eventually accumulating in North Europe due to natural selection.
Check our previous discussions. Interesting stuff.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30797-Mesolithic-man-Loschbour-brought-back-to-life
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30957-Mesolithic-source-of-Pale-pigmentation-in-modern-Europe
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30570-Ancient-DNA-from-Hungary-Christine-Gamba-et-al

A was reading some of that before, but I don't belive in that miraculously way of whitening.
This is simply impossible, because everywhere but not in Europe, whiter people were always
absorbing by darker populations. If the receccive genes would be a very little percentige in the
past, they would never manifest themselves in such large territory and widespread population.
It could happend in some small island or small endogamic population, but even then, it would be
very hard for recessive genes to prevail. I give you one example. Basks people are/were close
and small population, but during the centuries they were constantly absorbing some lighter
elements - but they are still a more dark than light population.

Even one recessive gen - Rh minus - who has among them exrime higher percentige in the world, couldn't
dominate the population. And this is just one of many examples, when 100% light or recessive population
was gone inside darker or gen-dominant population. If 100% can vanish - how 1% or even 10% could become
~90%. No, I don't belive in that, I simply can't.



There must be some more reasonable explenation, like for example a small recessive population
who after years grow in number and dominated rest of the darker population on the continent.

Otherwise - it is impossible to happend.

 

[Fire Haired14]

This thread has gotten off subject.

 

[Rethel]

Idiotic remark. Have you even seen a Georgian in your life?

I was make this "idiotic" remark, not Aberdeen, so you should tell this to me. Yes, I saw
Georgians, Armenians, Chechens, and Abchazic people face to face, and I know some of
them personally. If someone didn't see them 'on live', he can look at them on the Internet.
No problem at all. If you have any douts, ask some Russians, how they call people from
Caucasus in Moscow... I assure you that one of nicknames (most popular) is a color name

 

[Kardu]

I was make this "idiotic" remark, not Aberdeen, so you should tell this to me. Yes, I saw
Georgians, Armenians, Chechens, and Abchazic people face to face, and I know some of
them personally. If someone didn't see them 'on live', he can look at them on the Internet.
No problem at all. If you have any douts, ask some Russians, how they call people from
Caucasus in Moscow... I assure you that one of nicknames (most popular) is a color name

you are obviously a ***** kiddie

it says: t r o l l

 

[LeBrok]

Actually, the whitening of Europeans was a long and local process, which pretty much ended just now. Whitening alleles coming from many populations, eventually accumulating in North Europe due to natural selection.
Check our previous discussions. Interesting stuff.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30797-Mesolithic-man-Loschbour-brought-back-to-life
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30957-Mesolithic-source-of-Pale-pigmentation-in-modern-Europe
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30570-Ancient-DNA-from-Hungary-Christine-Gamba-et-al

A was reading some of that before, but I don't belive in that miraculously way of whitening.
This is simply impossible, because everywhere but not in Europe, whiter people were always
absorbing by darker populations. If the receccive genes would be a very little percentige in the
past, they would never manifest themselves in such large territory and widespread population.

There was no mirracle. Genetic research is telling us that few thousand years ago there was no one looking exactly like modern Europeans. At the same time we can see many whiter mutations in different communities. We see some of them in Swedish HG, other mutations in Samara Russia region, other mutations in Neolithic Farmers. After few thousand years of natural selection, these mutations finally conglomerated in region of Baltic and North Sea. Simply put, people who had more of these mutations were healthier (didn't lack vitamin D), and had more healthier offspring, busting their survival. The whiter skin folks out-breaded the darker skin ones. The natural election trumpets recessiveness of these genes. No miracle needed.

It could happend in some small island or small endogamic population, but even then, it would be
very hard for recessive genes to prevail. I give you one example. Basks people are/were close
and small population, but during the centuries they were constantly absorbing some lighter
elements - but they are still a more dark than light population.

That's because they live farther south, in stronger UV index zone, and very white mutations of skin are not needed. It is even destructive for population there to be very white and will causes many more cases of cancer, than darker skin.
Colour of skin is a balance between getting enough vitamin D and protection from skin cancer, melanin. That's why colour of skin correlates with climatic zones, UV index, plus diet containing D3.

Even one recessive gen - Rh
minus - who has among them exrime higher percentige in the world, couldn't dominate the
population. And this is just one of many examples, when 100% light or recessive population
was gone inside darker or gen-dominant population. If 100% can vanish - how 1% or even
10% could become ~90%. No, I don't belive in that, I simply can't.

Recessive function kicks in when genes are equal. However if a gene is very important and beneficial for certain populations, this gene becomes dominant by law of natural selection.

There must be some more reasonable explenation, like for example a small recessive population
who after years grow in number and dominated rest of the darker population on the continent.

Otherwise - it is impossible to happend.

Again, thinking only in terms of recessive genes, fogs understanding how genes are selected. Just think that if a genetic function is very popular in a group of people, it means that it had to be selected for important reason. Like colour of skin, or lactose persistence in some populations, but not in others.

 

[Rethel]

There was no mirracle. Genetic research is telling us that few thousand years ago there was no one looking exactly like modern Europeans.

I dont argue with that statement. It is not only correct by science standards, but
also expected according to archeological evidences, historic records and anthropology.

At the same time we can see many whiter mutations in different communities.

Ok, it could be, but it hasn't to be undependent events.
Source of that could be exchange of women between populations in not observed past.

We see some of them in Swedish HG, other mutations in Samara Russia region, other mutations in Neolithic Farmers. After few thousand years of natural selection, these mutations finally conglomerated in region of Baltic and North Sea.

And this is hocus-pocus, that people from different parts of the world, have similar
independent mutation and all of them came into one place after thousends of years...

I don't have so big faith

Simply put, people who had more of these mutations were healthier (didn't lack vitamin D), and had more healthier offspring, busting their survival. The whiter skin folks out-breaded the darker skin ones.

Ok, with that statement i'm perfectly agree.

That's because they live farther south, in stronger UV index zone, and very white mutations of skin are not needed. It is even destructive for population there to be very white and will causes many more cases of cancer, than darker skin.

So... why white even nordic-looking people are still living in the hot
south regions still not dying and not becoming darker by themselves,
and on the other hand dark people are especilly occupied all north and
coldest parts of the world, where sun is the most rare subject on the sky
by half of the year. Don't you see, that this theory doesnt work!?

Colour of skin is a balance between getting enough vitamin D and protection from skin cancer, melanin. That's why colour of skin correlates with climatic zones, UV index, plus diet containing D3.

So... why eskimos and yakuts are still alive?etrified:
And why blond-heired beduins are still alive
in Sahara... Why? They all should be dead!

Recessive function kicks in when genes are equal. However if a gene is very important and beneficial for certain populations, this gene becomes dominant by law of natural selection.

But first he must exist and don't die with his first owner.

Again, thinking only in terms of recessive genes, fogs understanding how genes are selected. Just think that if a genetic function is very popular in a group of people, it means that it had to be selected for important reason. Like colour of skin, or lactose persistence in some populations, but not in others.

Hocus-pocus.
It doesn't have to be like that. If you have blond and red alleles
in family, it is simply a coincidense which of them will be inherited.
There is not such a thing like dying because of having red hair, or
dying because of not having red hair. This is simple and reasonable.

 

[Fire Haired14]

Lebrok,
Here's a a detailed analysis of pre-Historic Euros pigmentation markers.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PVpN5zC3vW-FC_IUzFMaf6JI2XezGooJgsoIRagKyy8&authuser=0

Late Neolithic/Bronze age Germans and Hungarians; 4,5000 years ago, would defiantly pass as modern Europeans in skin tone, so a few thousand years ago is too recent. They had more 374F than their ancestors and slightly less than modern North Europeans. Also, Mesolithic Motalas and EHG had no known major dark markers at high frequency. So, there's no confirming evidence EEF introduced a new pale marker to Europe, unless there's undiscovered ones. You're theory about multiple pops giving light genes to Euros still makes sense though.

There's isn't enough knowledge of the science beyond skin color to say Yamna, EEF, etc. were darker than modern Europeans. It's a very good guess they were but that's it. I'd say that most of North European's ancestors 5,000 years ago were of a West Asian or South European tone. We can see in ancient DNA between 3,000-2,000BC markers for light skin and blue eyes rose in frequency but weren't at modern frequencies.

 

[Aberdeen]

Idiotic remark. Have you even seen a Georgian in your life?

Yes, I've met a few - I live in a country that has immigrants from all around the world. And I've seen many Georgians on television and on the internet. Georgians were all over the evening news a few years ago, having a bit of an disagreement with Russia about where Georgia's borders were.

 

[LeBrok]

Ok, it could be, but it hasn't to be undependent events.
Source of that could be exchange of women between populations in not observed past.

Mutations just happen spontaneously. Most mutations are not good, and mostly people die having them. However, people with positive mutations, mutations which give them any advantage, will always have more kids and over-populate the ones without these positive mutations.

And this is hocus-pocus, that people from different parts of the world, have similar
independent mutation and all of them came into one place after thousends of years...

I don't have so big faith

Not different parts of the world, they were all close by in Europe by Neolithic. By invasions, by trading women, or any other way, positive mutations were introduced in the Northern Europe. In Northern Europe, the mutations found the perfect grounds, and rooted in, and multiplied in population.

So... why white even nordic-looking people are still living in the hot
south regions still not dying and not becoming darker by themselves,
and on the other hand dark people are especilly occupied all north and
coldest parts of the world, where sun is the most rare subject on the sky
by half of the year. Don't you see, that this theory doesnt work!?

White people can live around the planet (these days) by the ways of civilization, They wear cloves to protect skin against UV radiation. Australians, or other colonial British in tropics, wore and wear hats, protection against the sun.
Regardless of their protection, when you check statistics you will find out that Australians white people have most skin cancer cases in the world. Especially when suntanning came fashionable in 80s. Nature tells us that they don't have the best skin colour for that climate.

So... why eskimos and yakuts are still alive?etrified:
And why blond-heired beduins are still alive

Eskimos and Inuits (people of Arctic) they all consume fresh (uncooked) seal liver, rich in vitamin D3. Liver of mammals is a storage of vitamins and minerals. Having diet like this, rich in vitamin D3, you don't need to suntan to get produce it. They also suntan a lot when possible.

in Sahara... Why? They all should be dead!

Look at Bedouins (lighter skin people in Sahara) they all wear cloths from head to toes to protect themselves against strong UV. This is the way they can survive there.
See the difference between suntan grandma and pinck skin baby.

Hocus-pocus.
It doesn't have to be like that. If you have blond and red alleles
in family, it is simply a coincidense which of them will be inherited.
There is not such a thing like dying because of having red hair, or
dying because of not having red hair. This is simple and reasonable.

Red head is just a sort of transition phase between Blond and Brunet.

 

[LeBrok]

But first he must exist and don't die with his first owner.

Go back to Mendel law and you will see that even the recessive mutation has a chance to survive, to be expressed. When it does it gives a chance for this positive gene to take off.

 

[Melancon]

Go back to Mendel law and you will see that even the recessive mutation has a chance to survive, to be expressed. When it does it gives a chance for this positive gene to take off.

In a way, I am a bit skeptical of the Natural Selection theory myself. How come Europeans can become fair-skinned; but East Asian Mongoloids who are also fair-skinned because of "Natural Selection" lack mutations for different hair color or eye color?

And if Europeans became fair-skinned in the Neolithic; does this mean that the East Asian Mongoloids also became fair-skinned at the same time?


Would it make better sense that both races developed these mutations during the Ice Age? And I have seen La Brana man and Loschbour man too; and know they had dark skin ... but could this be an error of sorts? They have the blue eyes but not the fair-skin. Yet Asians have fair-skin but no mutations in eye color. bizarre

 

[LeBrok]

In a way, I am a bit skeptical of the Natural Selection theory myself. How come Europeans can become fair-skinned; but East Asian Mongoloids who are also fair-skinned because of "Natural Selection" lack mutations for different hair color or eye color?

They do have one of few European mutations, IIRC, plus more Asian ones.

And if Europeans became fair-skinned in the Neolithic; does this mean that the East Asian Mongoloids also became fair-skinned at the same time?

Not exactly at same time, and not exactly same mutations. It is actually impassible for two separate populations to get same mutations. And this is actually what we can observer. The populations have lighter skins up North but not necessarily from exact mutations.

Would it make better sense that both races developed these mutations during the Ice Age? And I have seen La Brana man and Loschbour man too; and know they had dark skin ... but could this be an error of sorts? They have the blue eyes but not the fair-skin. Yet Asians have fair-skin but no mutations in eye color. bizarre

I don't believe the La Brana was really brown. I think we don't have complete knowledge of all the mutations and their impact on skin colour, therefore can exactly predict. I also think we got some munitions from Neanderthals but after so many years and additional mutations they became unrecognizable as Neanderthal ones. Anyway whatever the colour they were they were not as white as today's Europeans. The general picture of mutations tells us that the Europeans got the whitest recently from conglomeration of all the white skin mutations from all the Northern and Neolithic Peoples in the area.

 

[Maleth]

Thats nature, bacteria gets resistant to antibiotics for its survival (keeps mutating) (hostile environment for it to keep on surviving), Flu Viruses or any Viruses get resistant to flu vaccine or medication (keeps mutating) (hostile environment for it to keep on surviving), Furry Mammoths developed fur to keep them warm compared to their Asian or African counterparts, birds developed different type of beaks as a tool according to the type of food source they manage to find in the environment.

If our dna is pointing an original spot which takes us to Africa there is no other plausible theory that skin eye and hair colour evolved on the way of the migrating journey unless a group of Albinos decided to run away and make an escape from Africa. Thats the miracle of nature, all living things adapt for survival and humans are nothing more special. We are made up of trillion of cells which have the chemical combination for survival as much as a one celled organism.

Very simple that Blond hair, light eyes and pale skin are nothing more then lack of Melanin and its concentration levels is well known to be UV related so to what other reasons do we have the results we have?

 

[Maleth]

Look at Bedouins (lighter skin people in Sahara) they all wear cloths from head to toes to protect themselves against strong UV. This is the way they can survive there.
See the difference between suntan grandma and pinck skin baby.

There is much more solar reflection in permanent snow covered area (which could also have much less cloud cover in many such areas) due to reflection then say a forest covered region in cool climates due to the UV absorbance rate from the type of environment and normally heavy cloud cover (higher precipitation) too that goes with it to provide the area with lush green canopies.

 

[Kardu]

Yes, I've met a few - I live in a country that has immigrants from all around the world. And I've seen many Georgians on television and on the internet. Georgians were all over the evening news a few years ago, having a bit of an disagreement with Russia about where Georgia's borders were.

Show me photos of several Georgians and tell me mix of which races do the look like to you