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Thread: Will all people of the world mix creating one race in the future?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Ok, you don't care, understood.
    I don't have my hopes to high.

    You are also neutral to the people who oppose such mixing?
    No, because it infringes on freedom of choice of individuals. Being intolerant is not OK. The bottom line is that people should be fee to choose. I'm talking about freedom for the whole society, not only for the chosen ones, for the elite, for the monarch or dictator.

    I know you are going to say that I limit your choice to be intolerant, to be a dictator. And that's the bottom line with freedom for the society in general. Any time freedom of individuals or a group forces others into submission, to be dominated, to be used, to be forced, to be secluded, it is not the freedom I'm talking about. It is not the freedom to be cherished, uphold, the ubiquitous freedom. It is not freedom for society in general.

    For me it is easily understandable, for you to ask the question above, must be one and the same, or a thin line, which escapes your comprehension.

    Anyway, where is the one example we are waiting for, so you don't look like a liar. We gave you scientific-statistical figures that mixing trend exists and speeds up. Where is your real world proof to give reality to your suppositions, opinions, or should we say, fantasy?

    Be a man of your words!
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar View Post
    Mixing also splits loyalties. Hypothetically, if Vietnam and China went to war but you were half Chinese and half Vietnamese, which side would you go fight for? Also both sides wouldn't trust you and likely wouldn't accept you, since they would be fighting against the very people that you partially belong to.
    It surely mixing complicates many things. I'm sure not many killed their enemy with pleasure in US domestic war or in Yugoslavia. On other hand, mixing often closes cultural divides, and brings people together.

    Another issue with mixing are the negative health defects and likely dysgenic impact on IQ (IQ is overwhelmingly due to genetics and not environment like "some" want you to think).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritab...tability_of_IQ

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneso...Adoption_Study
    Yes, two people of very different phenotype and long genetic distances, might have kids with very uncommon disorders. English very crooked teeth might be an example of such instance, when Germanic big jaw people mixed with Celtic small jaw folks. I'm not sure exactly, who with whom, but it points to some huge mismatch.
    I know something about this because I come from a family where tall people love the short ones, and vice versa, or blond love brunets, small nose and big nose, as the opposite attracts, though still same ethnicity.
    On other hand there are many geniuses and famous people coming from families with ethnic and racial combinations.

    That's probably good subject for a new thread, the consequences of ethnic and racial mixing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    As much as it seems that nobody is about to come to agreement with Kardu in this thread, and he isn't being swayed either, I think that both sides can have a productive discussion by seriously addressing this question. It really gets to the heart of Kardu's concerns I think. A desire for cultural persistence is an important part of human nature. And race-mixing seems to threaten it--or does it? To what degree is genetics tied to a group identity? Can outsiders be absorbed into the group? How many of the world's cultures would persist if all races started mixing together everywhere?
    Probably the best example is Latin America. Many cultured perished, creating new identity of Iberian/Catholic, Amerindian/White/Black, technically modern/industrial/educated/ with some local flavor, US influence, Chinese goods, African rhythm, and who knows what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar View Post
    Mixing also splits loyalties. Hypothetically, if Vietnam and China went to war but you were half Chinese and half Vietnamese, which side would you go fight for? Also both sides wouldn't trust you and likely wouldn't accept you, since they would be fighting against the very people that you partially belong to.
    I understand your point and its relevant in some situations. However this is not the total situation of the globe. The vast majority of countries/clans/tribes/regions are not at war 24/7, in the meantime irrelevant to all the negative events going on at present many countries have good neighborly relations and lots of unannounced exchanges are going on. People of the 'new world' have new loyalties to their mother countries even if they are stock of People from all around the globe.

    Another issue with mixing are the negative health defects and likely dysgenic impact on IQ (IQ is overwhelmingly due to genetics and not environment like "some" want you to think).
    the brain is like a muscle, the more stimulated and exercised the better it performs irrelevant to race. In regards to IQ you might find this helpful, you have to copy and paste it in your search bar.

    "Myth: IQ depends fully on the genes of a person and is hereditary.
    This is also a popular myth. People have this misconception that IQ is solely the product of good genes. A child born out of parents having low IQ will also have low IQ. Besides, they also believe that this IQ will never change.

    Reality
    We all know that IQ comes from a combination of both genetics and environment. Experts believe that the genes affect our IQ by 40 to 80 percent and the remaining comes from external environment. Now, just think what will happen if a person is kept in isolation from all external stimuli? What will be the proportion of their intelligence coming from the environment? Obviously zero! Isn't? Hence, the more stimuli a person gets from the world, the more is their intelligence based on the environment. It is, thus, proved that IQ is not fully depended on the genes and it does change based on the environment. Besides, studies have also found significant increase in IQ from one generation to the other. It increases 21 points on an average in 30 years."


    http://www.iqtestexperts.com/iq-myths.php

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I don't have my hopes to high.

    No, because it infringes on freedom of choice of individuals. Being intolerant is not OK. The bottom line is that people should be fee to choose. I'm talking about freedom for the whole society, not only for the chosen ones, for the elite, for the monarch or dictator.

    I know you are going to say that I limit your choice to be intolerant, to be a dictator. And that's the bottom line with freedom for the society in general. Any time freedom of individuals or a group forces others into submission, to be dominated, to be used, to be forced, to be secluded, it is not the freedom I'm talking about. It is not the freedom to be cherished, uphold, the ubiquitous freedom. It is not freedom for society in general.

    For me it is easily understandable, for you to ask the question above, must be one and the same, or a thin line, which escapes your comprehension.

    Anyway, where is the one example we are waiting for, so you don't look like a liar. We gave you scientific-statistical figures that mixing trend exists and speeds up. Where is your real world proof to give reality to your suppositions, opinions, or should we say, fantasy?

    Be a man of your words!
    As usual you see what you want to see. I told you: Afirmative Action long time ago.

    And who says that everyone should accept the negative liberty you describe?

    What do liberals know about being a man...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post

    the brain is like a muscle, the more stimulated and exercised the better it performs irrelevant to race. In regards to IQ you might find this helpful, you have to copy and paste it in your search bar.

    "Myth: IQ depends fully on the genes of a person and is hereditary.
    This is also a popular myth. People have this misconception that IQ is solely the product of good genes. A child born out of parents having low IQ will also have low IQ. Besides, they also believe that this IQ will never change.

    Reality
    We all know that IQ comes from a combination of both genetics and environment. Experts believe that the genes affect our IQ by 40 to 80 percent and the remaining comes from external environment. Now, just think what will happen if a person is kept in isolation from all external stimuli? What will be the proportion of their intelligence coming from the environment? Obviously zero! Isn't? Hence, the more stimuli a person gets from the world, the more is their intelligence based on the environment. It is, thus, proved that IQ is not fully depended on the genes and it does change based on the environment. Besides, studies have also found significant increase in IQ from one generation to the other. It increases 21 points on an average in 30 years."


    http://www.iqtestexperts.com/iq-myths.php
    I never said that IQ was ONLY genetic, I said that it is MOSTLY genetic. And studies of adoptions across racial lines prove that raising the average Black kid in an upper class White household only increases his IQ by a few meager points. IQ is overwhelmingly genetic and unlike what you claimed about it increasing, it is actually decreasing in many Western countries due to immigration of low IQ immigrants.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...180634194.html

    http://www.amren.com/news/2014/08/iq...llectual-peak/

    https://robertlindsay.files.wordpres...t-majority.png

    Look at this IQ map, a high standard of living doesn't cause high IQ, it is the other way around: a high IQ causes a high standard of living. There are only a few exceptions like countries who were recently communist (or still are communist) like Russia, Ukraine, Mongolial, China, etc. Even though their standard of living is relatively low compared to Western countries, their IQ is about the same or higher. And lets look at the oil rich countries of the Gulf. Their IQ is in the 80s, but their standard of living is very high because of their massive fossil fuel resources.

    http://cdn3.chartsbin.com/chartimage...d55ad7448cc810
    Last edited by Templar; 25-04-15 at 12:21. Reason: Added HDI map

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    What do liberals know about being a man...
    Only that a man should have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of choice etc...in short the freedom to individual right and choice, be it for man or woman. If you had not these rights Kardu, would you not feel you were unable to function as a free man?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    And who says that everyone should accept the negative liberty you describe?
    What is negative about these things?
    Also, why do feel that mixing of ethnicity should threaten you or your culture? If you and the next generation carry on using your language, carry on observing your customs, they are not lost. If, on the other hand, the future generation decide to let go of these things, they do so by choice. Would you take away the freedom of choice for the next generation? The liberal man would not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar View Post
    IQ is overwhelmingly genetic and unlike what you claimed about it increasing
    I am not claiming it, its been observed in serious studies. And to a certain point its also obvious as that what evolution is all about. Its all an evolutionary process and nothing stays still but just a product of our environment a result of thousands of years in existence like all living species - even genes are receiving millions of messages and instructions from the environment and change by time according to need in the name of survival. Even genes evolve by time and also do their instructions. If it wasnt so we would not have evolved as species.

    evolve.jpg

    Look at this IQ map, a high standard of living doesn't cause high IQ, it is the other way around: a high IQ causes a high standard of living. There are only a few exceptions like countries who were recently communist (or still are communist) like Russia, Ukraine, Mongolial, China, etc. Even though their standard of living is relatively low compared to Western countries, their IQ is about the same or higher. And lets look at the oil rich countries of the Gulf. Their IQ is in the 80s, but their standard of living is very high because of their massive fossil fuel resources.
    The locals in Gulf countries are perfect recipe ta acquire low IQ according to this men made calculator. Lots of money and others working for it. (very little stimuli, little anxiety with health related issues including health comfort and meals, no need to think too much of how to improve your life as cash is no problem if the need arises) It could very much the cause of Western drop in IQ too for the same reasons for having much more people reaching this category. Live all your life by the pool relaxed, fat bank account, all services around you and your IQ would be bound to be eroded easily and not really bodered to the contents in any IQ test ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    Only that a man should have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of choice etc...in short the freedom to individual right and choice, be it for man or woman. If you had not these rights Kardu, would you not feel you were unable to function as a free man?What is negative about these things? Also, why do feel that mixing of ethnicity should threaten you or your culture? If you and the next generation carry on using your language, carry on observing your customs, they are not lost. If, on the other hand, the future generation decide to let go of these things, they do so by choice. Would you take away the freedom of choice for the next generation? The liberal man would not.
    I guess Lebrok can answer for himself.Negative Liberty is a concept.All rights are conventional and not given by some higher universal authority.Again we are talking about race-mixng here not ethnic mixing. The latter is less dangerous for a particular group identity.We and future generations alike have not only so called rights and freedoms but also duties and obligations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    I guess Lebrok can answer for himself.Negative Liberty is a concept.All rights are conventional and not given by some higher universal authority.Again we are talking about race-mixng here not ethnic mixing. The latter is less dangerous for a particular group identity.We and future generations alike have not only so called rights and freedoms but also duties and obligations.
    I am convinced LeBrok can answer for himself..however this being a discussion thread I was unaware one must take a ticket and wait in line to take part. The point you made may have been to another but the point was general.
    So, future generations may have freedom so long as it does not interfere with their expected duties..in other words to my question..yes, you would deny future generations the freedom of choice.
    I don`t know how you define race but I was under the impression we were one race...human.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    I am convinced LeBrok can answer for himself..however this being a discussion thread I was unaware one must take a ticket and wait in line to take part. The point you made may have been to another but the point was general.
    So, future generations may have freedom so long as it does not interfere with their expected duties..in other words to my question..yes, you would deny future generations the freedom of choice.
    I don`t know how you define race but I was under the impression we were one race...human.
    That question you should direct to LeBrok who has started this thread about race-mixng. If we were just one race no mixing would be possible would it?

    If you call it freedom to fullfill whatever whim comes to your mind, yes I deny that kind "freedom" from myself and from the members of my group, present and future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    I am not claiming it, its been observed in serious studies. And to a certain point its also obvious as that what evolution is all about. Its all an evolutionary process and nothing stays still but just a product of our environment a result of thousands of years in existence like all living species - even genes are receiving millions of messages and instructions from the environment and change by time according to need in the name of survival. Even genes evolve by time and also do their instructions. If it wasnt so we would not have evolved as species.
    We are no longer evolving in the traditional sense, modern breeding is largely dysgenic. In the past the weak, dumb, physically deformed etc would have died off, today most of them survive to breed. And to make things worse, higher IQ people tend to have smaller and smaller families, while lower IQ ones continue to have large ones. Our only hope to solve this impending disaster is genetic engineering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    That question you should direct to LeBrok who has started this thread about race-mixng. If we were just one race no mixing would be possible would it?

    If you call it freedom to fullfill whatever whim comes to your mind, yes I deny that kind "freedom" from myself and from the members of my group, present and future.
    But I`m asking you. You are the one who said a single race was impossible...

    A whim..? You see the right to freedom of expression, freedom of individual choice, the right to do so without pressure, as "quaint"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    But I`m asking you. You are the one who said a single race was impossible...

    A whim..? You see the right to freedom of expression, freedom of individual choice, the right to do so without pressure, as "quaint"?
    No, you are the one who said that we are already one human race.

    As I've already said before those rights are arbitrary and conventional

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    As usual you see what you want to see. I told you: Afirmative Action long time ago.

    And who says that everyone should accept the negative liberty you describe?

    What do liberals know about being a man...
    Perhaps you're not actually acquainted with the nature of affirmative action legislation? Simply, it is predicated on the fact that blacks (and other minorities) in this country were systematically denied access to quality education and good jobs for hundreds of years. In 1965, President Johnson signed an order requiring the government to take "affirmative action" to make sure that hiring decisions were made without regard to race, religion or national origin. It was sometimes interpreted to give preference to certain minorities in hiring and also in admissions to universities.

    I'm one of the people who actually thinks that we've come along far enough that it's no longer necessary. However, I see nothing untoward about considering the socio-economic situation of applicants as one factor in the admissions process, or in hiring of local police, for example.

    If I were on those admissions committees, and was presented with two equally qualified applicants, one of whom had overcome a great deal of adversity to achieve his or her competence, regardless of race, I would definitely favor that applicant over the child of affluent "helicopter" parents who provided every kind of advantage.

    In terms of police departments, I think it is to the benefit of society as a whole to have a police department that contains minority members, particularly in situations where the police must interact with people living in primarily minority, disadvantaged, high crime areas.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with encouraging intermarriage between the races.

    It is a totally illogical claim. So, you are back to square one. You claimed there are a "zillion" laws promoting racial intermarriage, and you have yet to provide proof of even one.

    What you are against is any law which negates prior segregation laws, because you are afraid that if people of different races come into contact with one another in any kind of equal way in their day to day lives, some of them will inevitably fall in love and get married. You know what, you're right. That's exactly what starts to happen. All of this talk about it only happening as a result of force or war is obfuscation. If you weren't afraid that it can happen naturally you wouldn't be pointing to things like the desegregation laws or affirmative action as fostering it.

    The fact is that you want to deny people the freedom to choose to marry people of another race. That would require some sort of coercion, either by law, force, or indoctrination. You say you are not in favor of the first two. If we take you at your word, that leaves you with indoctrination. Have at it as far as I'm concerned. You are always and everywhere free to try to indoctrinate your own children. In the U.S. you are even free to stand on a street corner and spout your ideas or give speeches about it or otherwise try to disseminate your ideas. This is a free country. In fact, if, in doing that, you are attacked physically, the law will protect you. This is the price of a free society. However, one act of physical force of any kind and you'll wind up in jail.

    Let's see how your ideas fare.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Perhaps you're not actually acquainted with the nature of affirmative action legislation? Simply, it is predicated on the fact that blacks (and other minorities) in this country were systematically denied access to quality education and good jobs for hundreds of years. In 1965, President Johnson signed an order requiring the government to take "affirmative action" to make sure that hiring decisions were made without regard to race, religion or national origin. It was sometimes interpreted to give preference to certain minorities in hiring and also in admissions to universities. I'm one of the people who actually thinks that we've come along far enough that it's no longer necessary. However, I see nothing untoward about considering the socio-economic situation of applicants as one factor in the admissions process, or in hiring of local police, for example.If I were on those admissions committees, and was presented with two equally qualified applicants, one of whom had overcome a great deal of adversity to achieve his or her competence, regardless of race, I would definitely favor that applicant over the child of affluent "helicopter" parents who provided every kind of advantage.In terms of police departments, I think it is to the benefit of society as a whole to have a police department that contains minority members, particularly in situations where the police must interact with people living in primarily minority, disadvantaged, high crime areas. This has absolutely nothing to do with encouraging intermarriage between the races. It is a totally illogical claim. So, you are back to square one. You claimed there are a "zillion" laws promoting racial intermarriage, and you have yet to provide proof of even one.What you are against is any law which negates prior segregation laws, because you are afraid that if people of different races come into contact with one another in any kind of equal way in their day to day lives, some of them will inevitably fall in love and get married. You know what, you're right. That's exactly what starts to happen. All of this talk about it only happening as a result of force or war is obfuscation. If you weren't afraid that it can happen naturally you wouldn't be pointing to things like the desegregation laws or affirmative action as fostering it.The fact is that you want to deny people the freedom to choose to marry people of another race. That would require some sort of coercion, either by law, force, or indoctrination. You say you are not in favor of the first two. If we take you at your word, that leaves you with indoctrination. Have at it as far as I'm concerned. You are always and everywhere free to try to indoctrinate your own children. In the U.S. you are even free to stand on a street corner and spout your ideas or give speeches about it or otherwise try to disseminate your ideas. This is a free country. In fact, if, in doing that, you are attacked physically, the law will protect you. This is the price of a free society. However, one act of physical force of any kind and you'll wind up in jail. Let's see how your ideas fare.
    So we finally agree at least partially :) And if you bother to scroll up you will see that I did clarify what I meant saying 'facilitate' not force. And if it is such a free country why they make it so difficult to held conferences like AmRen etc.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    I guess Lebrok can answer for himself.Negative Liberty is a concept.All rights are conventional and not given by some higher universal authority.Again we are talking about race-mixng here not ethnic mixing. The latter is less dangerous for a particular group identity.We and future generations alike have not only so called rights and freedoms but also duties and obligations.
    Duties and obligation to preserve the race? Is it from Mein Kampf?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    So we finally agree at least partially :) And if you bother to scroll up you will see that I did clarify what I meant saying 'facilitate' not force. And if it is such a free country why they make it so difficult to held conferences like AmRen etc.?
    The only thing about which we agree is that, with certain exceptions, the U.S. permits people to spout even idiotic, a scientific, insane, and morally reprehensible ideas.

    The exceptions are that any hint of physical coercion will land you in jail.

    I'm glad that you have unmasked yourself. AmRen is a white supremacist, i.e. racist association. Probably one of those groups that attempts to influence young, impressionable, often mentally unstable young men with their pernicious doctrines, frequently through the internet.

    Now that it's clear what positions you actually hold, the discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Duties and obligation to preserve the race? Is it from Mein Kampf?
    Yeah, yeah, keep piling up false accusations and insinuations. Your cheap totalitarian liberal tricks won't intimidate me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The only thing about which we agree is that, with certain exceptions, the U.S. permits people to spout even idiotic, a scientific, insane, and morally reprehensible ideas.

    The exceptions are that any hint of physical coercion will land you in jail.

    I'm glad that you have unmasked yourself. AmRen is a white supremacist, i.e. racist association. Probably one of those groups that attempts to influence young, impressionable, often mentally unstable young men with their pernicious doctrines, frequently through the internet.

    Now that it's clear what positions you actually hold, the discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.
    Lol, congratulations with 'unmasking'. AmRen was an example, and they are in no way supremacist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The only thing about which we agree is that, with certain exceptions, the U.S. permits people to spout even idiotic, a scientific, insane, and morally reprehensible ideas.

    The exceptions are that any hint of physical coercion will land you in jail.

    I'm glad that you have unmasked yourself. AmRen is a white supremacist, i.e. racist association. Probably one of those groups that attempts to influence young, impressionable, often mentally unstable young men with their pernicious doctrines, frequently through the internet.

    Now that it's clear what positions you actually hold, the discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.
    AmRen is racialist, not racist. They believe that on average, there are considerable differences between different breeds of humans. They actually put East Asians as smarter than Whites, and therefore are in no way "white supremacists".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    As I've already said before those rights are arbitrary and conventional
    Conventional..based on what is normally done or believed?
    So if someone wishes to step outside the conventional, that which is normally done and wishes the freedom to do differently, you will likely deny them this "whim". This is not freedom Kardu, it is an illusion.
    A liberal man seeks to have freedom for each individual, to make their own choices..what you speak of is, the freedom to do so..as long as it that which is normally done...it would seem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    Conventional..based on what is normally done or believed?
    So if someone wishes to step outside the conventional, that which is normally done and wishes the freedom to do differently, you will likely deny them this "whim". This is not freedom Kardu, it is an illusion.
    A liberal man seeks to have freedom for each individual, to make their own choices..what you speak of is, the freedom to do so..as long as it that which is normally done...it would seem.
    What I meant is that those rights are made up, they are not some kind eternal universal truth everyone is morally or otherwise obliged to submit to

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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar View Post
    We are no longer evolving in the traditional sense, modern breeding is largely dysgenic. In the past the weak, dumb, physically deformed etc would have died off, today most of them survive to breed. And to make things worse, higher IQ people tend to have smaller and smaller families, while lower IQ ones continue to have large ones. Our only hope to solve this impending disaster is genetic engineering.
    What makes you think so? Do you really think we have reached some sort of dead end in evolution? excluding genetic engineering our genes are already working on new realities the human species has not encountered before such as obesity and lack of exercise due to the use of so much machinery visa vi manual work which was the norm even up to a few decades ago. Our systems are going to see a new form of resistance to disease brought by a new way of life not know before. Our body shapes will change too. Just how we genetically became programmed to tolerate Lactose similar how to how bacteria becomes resistant (continuously) to pencilin. We work on the same principals of survival. But genetic engineering can (probably) give instant results

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    What I meant is that those rights are made up, they are not some kind eternal universal truth everyone is morally or otherwise obliged to submit to
    You mean things made up by people are wrong and invalid?
    Your job is made up, Georgia is made up, language is made up, your mind is also made up by human made up ideas.
    So the human rights are made up and it gives dictator Kardu a reason to take them away, for the good of his race.

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