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Thread: Will all people of the world mix creating one race in the future?

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.


    Lebrok u seem pretty un tolerant like my dad's teacher mayor Emanuel(of Chicago). U have such a strong hate for religion UR UN TOLERANT. I want to make this perfectly clear i have said this to u like 100 times. I am not hateful towards gays i dont want to be hatful towards anyone. I think people have the right to believe what they want to, say what they want, have what ever religion they want i think all people should have equal rights. U keep trying to put evidence on me that somehow i only want my religion to be allowed where are u getting this idea u twist my words. Can u please stop setro typing me as a complet ignorant idiot and giving a insult every time u post.

    U have the same hateful and un tolerant attitude so many liberals i have seen have. U think u know everything and are somehow better than human and all people in the past and complete idiots u want nothing with tradition. U are just as hatful and close minded as religious extremist u criticize so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    I worded that wrong i have been into politics since i was about 4 years old but i have not always had the same opinion. But i have though about things the same way because it is my personality i have one just like everyone else. Can u please stop with the petty insults.
    Do you think this trait of personality was genetic? Your nature. It would explain why it is the same at age 4 and 15. Otherwise nurture wouldn't affect this trait much through 11 years.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Do you think this trait of personality was genetic? Your nature. It would explain why it is the same at age 4 and 15. Otherwise nurture wouldn't affect this trait much through 11 years.
    No alot of my personality is learned but it combined with my nature. Of course my personality at 4 was similar but not exactly the same. I dont know about other people but i would guess i have gone through the same life stages and learned stuff everyone else has.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    I am not hateful towards gays i dont want to be hatful towards anyone. I think people have the right to believe what they want to, say what they want, have what ever religion they want i think all people should have equal rights. U keep trying to put evidence on me that somehow i only want my religion to be allowed where are u getting this idea u twist my words. Can u please stop setro typing me as a complet ignorant idiot and giving a insult every time u post.
    If you wrote it first time I would believe you. I could even understand that this is true for you and you believe your words. But for the rest of the world: It looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, it is a duck!

    U have the same hateful and un tolerant attitude so many liberals i have seen have. U think u know everything and are somehow better than human and all people in the past and complete idiots u want nothing with tradition. U are just as hatful and close minded as religious extremist u criticize so much
    Again, it is only how you see and feel the world is treating you. I wish you could try to think like other people do, put yourself in other's shoes, feel some compassion, be more inclusive, tolerant, or even true and honest to your nature.
    But for now you only play the victim and blame others or the world in general for all the maladies. You have some strong believing "syndrome", giving you inclusive rights for the truth, and creating feeling as you're the victim against them, the others, the gays, the muslims, the liberals, the media, the pro gay scientists, etc, etc.
    Can't you see the mental cage you locked yourself in, to keep the others away?

    U have the same hateful and un tolerant attitude so many liberals i have seen have
    but only towards you or people like you. Because you know, my tolerance stops with intolerant people.
    Why hateful? I never wished you anything bad. Perhaps you're using your own definition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    No alot of my personality is learned but it combined with my nature. Of course my personality at 4 was similar but not exactly the same. I dont know about other people but i would guess i have gone through the same life stages and learned stuff everyone else has.
    Are you sure there is nothing genetic in traits of personality or human character?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Are you sure there is nothing genetic in traits of personality or human character?
    I defintley think there are the human personality period our ability to learn in in our nature. I think what happens is we have our instinct which combines with what we learn. One of our insticts is learning and i think some people learn differently. I defintley have personality traits that exist in other people of my family and some personality traits i have i learned not even from my family. I think if u really want an idea ask psychologist or ur self. Look at ur life i bet u can see some is the way u where born some is how ur natural instinct reacts to learning stuff and some is completely learned.

    It is impossible to figure out why we have all of our personality traits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    If you wrote it first time I would believe you. I could even understand that this is true for you and you believe your words. But for the rest of the world: It looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck, it is a duck!
    I know i may seem like that hateful person but i am not and i try not to be. U have defintley shown just as much hate and un tolerance on the other side as i have. U accused me of hating Muslims and that only my religion should be allowed. I never said that all i said is their extremist governments and terriost are a huge threat to the western world because they want to destroy us. They are one of our biggest threats in that way. I am not hating all Muslims my family actulley has many Muslim friends i have Muslim neighbors they are not bad people. Their government is i wont ignore the dangers in the muslim world.

    When have a showed any hate towards gays sure i say what they are doing is un natural but i would treat them like any other person. I am not this duck u say i am.


    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Again, it is only how you see and feel the world is treating you. I wish you could try to think like other people do, put yourself in other's shoes, feel some compassion, be more inclusive, tolerant, or even true and honest to your nature.
    But for now you only play the victim and blame others or the world in general for all the maladies. You have some strong believing "syndrome", giving you inclusive rights for the truth, and creating feeling as you're the victim against them, the others, the gays, the muslims, the liberals, the media, the pro gay scientists, etc, etc.
    Can't you see the mental cage you locked yourself in, to keep the others away?
    i see what u are saying i am acting like a victim and but what i am saying is true. Also the who Liberal mind set is based on being a victim modern libearlism ws born on acting like a victum of religion and other things. Of course the victumisn was true but even today liberals claim being victims when they are the ones with the power in the western world. I will try to understand how others with a diff opinion feel. Give me evidence i am not inclusive and tolerant those are just fancy words u use on every conservative. I repeated it so many times we have the same idea on human rights and tolerance just we have a diff opinion on what the limits are.

    I totally understand the i think i am always right and blaming my problems on other people. I have always been over confident on my opinions. Ur right i have been known to victimize myself a big part of that is being the youngest brother. Now i dont blame the gays, Muslims, liberals for my problems. U are just adding all the people u think all conservatives hate. It is very true our media is extremely biased and libearl. I have a diff opinion than them it is true those people who wrote the article and talked about brain sizes of dead gay people they where biased. U still think i am ur stereotype of a hateful conservative. I can kind off get what ur saying but i do look at things and time and time again the liberal mind set seems very wrong to me ur part of the reason.

    I have kind off thought there is no way i am wrong there is some truth in what u are saying i have noticed it myself. I am like that in all arguments like baseball.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    but only towards you or people like you. Because you know, my tolerance stops with intolerant people.
    Why hateful? I never wished you anything bad. Perhaps you're using your own definition?
    Lebrok i am not this stereotypical un tolerant person. Just because someone has a diff opinion than u does not make u tolerant. ur tolerance stops with people who have a diff opinon than u. At least u admitted to ur un tolerance. Lebrok u have been dis respectful in all of our conversations. I have also said some terrible things some threatening i wont lie.

    I think both of us are a little un tolerant to people with a diff opinion can we agree on that. It is natural people are not open minded and that is not always bad. We naturally like people who are different than us liberals defintley are not excluded from human nature. I dont think we are that diff we dis agree on some things like gay marraige.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    . I think people have the right to believe what they want to, say what they want, have what ever religion they want i think all people should have equal rights.
    Okay, so how would you fit this new found policy of rights against your previous statements such as on gay people:
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    "It is sick and I dont want then doing sick things in my society"
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    "Because i dont want guys and guys doing it or girls and girls doing it. that is just wrong and sick and unatural and if it is unatural i dont want in our society. we are not just suppose to let people do whatever they want."
    Right off you seem to be limiting those new ideas for equal rights.

    And women may not fare any better under you:
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    "Men take leadership roles, every society does this to-day"
    "I am not putting down females, ....just putting down modern thinkers who go against human nature
    So straight off we see you have failed to accommodate two sections of the community in your new idea of "equal rights for all" No, I count wrong, that should be three, as you seem to have little space either for "modern thinkers"
    So in answer to your question a few posts back, "do you listen to what i say" ..the answer seems to be, yes. Perhaps the question should be, do you remember what you say?
    Do you consider, when you take the stage declaring people are being INtolerant towards you and you really believe in rights for all, that your own words themselves, [which I listened to] make you fall?
    Last edited by hope; 27-07-13 at 18:49.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    F.H..Thanks for post 45..I do have an interest in listening to people speak about themselves.
    Unfortunately,interesting as this is, I am not sure what it actually has to do with O.T. or which of your many points to answer. You flit from one thing to another so quickly.
    For instance you here cover:
    Sexual harassment...devil worship...The chick fella...the Georgians...LeBrok... gay marriage...liberals...conservatives...your dads philosophy grade...LeBrok again...a short history on Ireland and the Ulster Scots..a condensed history of America...hillbillies...immoral television programmes and movies...and gender roles.......
    Is there a point at all to go with this?
    .


    .

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    I honestly don't think that is what it is.
    Not really much on my intriguing question.


    Why do u keep ignoring the fact far left winged people rule our media, rule the american establishment. mis represent and insult conservatives, and not accepting of other opinions for example when chick fillia owner was against gay marriage. I think it is most likely because it was people from the 1960's who now the old people. Also what is with ur hate for religion u are so hateful u think it should not even exist u show a snobby left winged dis respect to everything i say ur not as smart as u think u are. I try to be nice i dont want to dis respect u honestly but i mean u are like extremely "un Tolernt". Reminds me of our media which posses people like me as hateful, un tolernt, idiots.
    By now it has pretty much became your propaganda piece, repeated countless times already. Unfortunately it became only Truth for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    But for now you only play the victim and blame others or the world in general for all the maladies. You have some strong believing "syndrome", giving you inclusive rights for the truth, and creating feeling as you're the victim against them, the others, the gays, the muslims, the liberals, the media, the pro gay scientists, etc, etc.
    Can't you see the mental cage you locked yourself in, to keep the others away?
    Dude, it's one thing when one is OK with something. He can be OK with muslims, gays, aliens, whatever, as long as someone keeps it for himself, and does whatever suits his needs with himself. BUT, once it goes public it's a normal thing to stand up against it, if you feel jeopardized. If he doesn't want to watch religious people do some insane rites, or he feels disgust with gays, or thinks alien sex movies are obnoxious, he has the right to say it out loud. Even more, if that is the opinion of the majority, others must go with it. Why should majority care to adopt to abnormal or extravagant characters? It is supposed to be other way. He is practically being caged from outside. That's the price to pay for being tolerant -‘Let ‘em have one finger, they take your whole hand’.

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    I don't think that humanity will ever end up becoming one "race", there will always be diversity (even mixed children are very diverse). Especially considering the giant leaps in genetic engineering that have been happening for the last 20-30 years. For example, it wouldn't surprise me if most parents of the future choose for their kids to have blue eyes or other characteristics which are nowadays considered rare and appealing. People might even start modifying their features to look like nothing like we see in any of modern humans, like reptilian skin or furry bodies.

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    I don't see how one race could ever happen. It's not like every person from one race prefers a person from another race, there are allot of people who are attracted to their own people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Besa View Post
    I don't see how one race could ever happen.
    Like it is happening in America, Canada, Australia the modern multicultural countries. Like it happened already in ancient Egypt where white people mixed with black Nubians. Like in Brazil where you can find every shade of human skin and every shape of a nose. Brazil is the best example how this happens.

    It's not like every person from one race prefers a person from another race, there are allot of people who are attracted to their own people.
    It doesn't need to be every person. It is enough even if small percentage mixes every decade. After couple of thousand of years the mixed genes will flow across whole society.

    If you can check few genetic threads (here on Eupedia) about ancient and current Europeans, you would notice that all Europeans are a mixture of many ancient peoples (or subraces if you will) that moved into Europe since Mezolitic. There is not even one original "Mesolithic race" European anymore. There is no pure Neolithic European anymore either. We are all mixtures of the same ancestral components though in different proportions. This is what we get after about 6 thousand years of mixing.
    Do your genetic test and we can tell you how mixed you are already.

    If you don't believe it can happen in 2 thousand years, considering hyper mobility of today's and future society, and give it 10,000 years or 100,000 years. One thing is sure, people mix and will mix more in the future. Complete mixed society is only a matter of time, and there is no shortage of time in Universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    If you don't believe it can happen in 2 thousand years, considering hyper mobility of today's and future society, and give it 10,000 years or 100,000 years. One thing is sure, people mix and will mix more in the future. Complete mixed society is only a matter of time, and there is no shortage of time in Universe.
    This is a high likely scenario (unless we go through some cataclysmic event that cannot be dealt with, which puts humans in some kind of bottle neck situation or total eradication........we could have conquered Mars by then )

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Like it is happening in America, Canada, Australia the modern multicultural countries. Like it happened already in ancient Egypt where white people mixed with black Nubians. Like in Brazil where you can find every shade of human skin and every shape of a nose. Brazil is the best example how this happens.


    Do your genetic test and we can tell you how mixed you are already.
    LeBrok, can you give statistics of mixed race couples in USA, Australia etc. compared to general populations?

    And, for example, I do have my autosomal test, and I don't have any admix whatsoever from other major races.

    Also keep in mind, those old mixes you refer were not result of some hippie happy coupling, but outcome of violence and conquest.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    LeBrok, can you give statistics of mixed race couples in USA, Australia etc. compared to general populations?

    And, for example, I do have my autosomal test, and I don't have any admix whatsoever from other major races.

    Also keep in mind, those old mixes you refer were not result of some hippie happy coupling, but outcome of violence and conquest.
    According to Statistics Canada about 4% of all marriages are mixed race. This is a double from 2% in 1990. Keep in mind that Caucasians are still majority 77%, therefore visible minorities are at 23%, of all Canadians, which reduced chances of mixed marriages.

    Here is a very nice summary of Canadian multiculturalism in regards to mixed couples.
    http://www.canada.com/Number+mixed+r...592/story.html

    What surprised me in this report is that the highest ratio of mixing happens in Japanese community, about 75%? In huge contrast to very conservative demographic (not to say racist) policies of Japanese government "protecting" purity of Japan.

    - Japanese had the highest proportion of marrying or partnering outside their visible minority group, with 75 per cent of those coupled off choosing a non-Japanese partner. Next are Latin Americans at 47 per cent, blacks at 41 per cent and Filipinos at 33 per cent.
    People with higher education and higher income tend to mix more too.

    - Among Canadian cities, Vancouver has the largest share of mixed couples, at 8.5 per cent, followed by Toronto with 7.1 per cent and Calgary with 6.1 per cent.
    Like it or not, people are mixing, will be mixing and speed of mixing is increasing every year.

    In a thousand years we should have one well mixed population, borderless nations and everyone speaking english.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post


    Like it or not, people are mixing, will be mixing and speed of mixing is increasing every year.

    In a thousand years we should have one well mixed population, borderless nations and everyone speaking english.
    We won't be there to see but it won't happen not in 1000 nor in 10000 years :) This utopian leftist fantasy is against human group psychology. And no, I don't like it ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    We won't be there to see but it won't happen not in 1000 nor in 10000 years :) This utopian leftist fantasy is against human group psychology. And no, I don't like it ;)
    When Leonardo Da Vinci was designing his flying machine 500 years ago, many conservative people swore that people are not meant to fly and that will never ever ever fly. Look in the sky, there we are, and the world has not ended. ;)

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    We won't be there to see but it won't happen not in 1000 nor in 10000 years :) This utopian leftist fantasy is against human group psychology. And no, I don't like it ;)

    It's irrelevant whether any of us like it or not. What is relevant is what genetics tells us about human history. There is no "pure" population. The Georgians, as people of the southern Caucasus, are a mixture of Near Eastern farmers who moved to the Caucasus (who were themselves a mixture of "Basal Eurasian" hunter gatherers and hunter gatherers from another human lineage, which then admixed with other hunter gatherers from yet another human lineage (ANE), and which lineage, by the way, has some correlation with a component present in south Asians.

    On admixture runs of more recent, drifted, autosomal components, look up the Georgians:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...tUE9kaUE#gid=2

    In North America, in terms of Europeans of varying backgrounds, it's a total mishmash. I've said before that in twenty-five years you practically won't be able to find an American who is of 100% Italian descent. (Among fourth generation descendents of Italians, no more than 8% have exclusively Italian ancestry.That doesn't mean that part Italians don't identify as Italian-Americans, of course.) Even Jews, famously endogamous for 2,000 years, are marrying out at a rate of about 50%. If you don't want your children to admix with people of another ethnic group, the U.S., North America in general, should not be your first choice for emigration.
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/why-is-...all-us-faiths/
    http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp312.pdf

    As for inter-racial marriage in the U.S., "Interracial marriages in the U.S. have climbed to 4.8 million (1 in 12 marriages) in 2010[3] as a steady flow of new Asian and Hispanic immigrants expands the pool of prospective spouses.[5] In 2010, 15% of new marriages were interracial.[3] In 2010, 25% of Asians, 25% of Hispanics, 17.1% of blacks, and 9.4% of whites married interracially.[3] Of the 275,500 new interracial marriages in 2010, 43% were white-Hispanic couples, 14.4% were white-Asian, 11.9% were white-black, and the remainder were other combinations.[6 In the northeastern U.S. for example, Puerto Ricans, who carry AmerIndian as well as SSA ancestry, Cape Verdeans, Cubans etc., and especially the women, "marry out" at pretty high rates. Unfortunately, I think there's often a "racialist" motivation to this; it's called "lightening up". Pathetic, in my estimation. On the West Coast, Chinese and Japanese Americans marry out at a high rate. In California and the southwestern U.S., Hispanics marry out in large numbers.

    For African Americans the situation is a bit different. Much of their admixture (up to 25-30% European in some cases) is the result of mingling from early in the history of slavery, and less than that now.

    From Wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage
    "[t]he social stigma related to Black interracial marriages still exists in today's society. Research by Tucker and Mitchell-Kerman from 1990 has shown that Blacks intermarry far less than any other non-White group[7] and in 2010, only 17.1% of Blacks married interracially, a rate far lower than the rates for Hispanics and Asians.[3] Black interracial marriages in particular engender problems associated with racist attitudes and perceived relational inappropriateness.[8]"

    However, that isn't strange in situations where one group is seen as occupying a position lower on the "class" ladder. As that changes, so will the levels of admixture. Even at current rates, however, look at it this way: what will the population in the U.S. be like if there is this level of mixing for the next 1,000 years or 2,000 years even with no change in socio-economic status?

    That is the nature of a dynamic society with immigration from diverse areas. I'm sure that China will remain pretty homogenous for a long time. There are how many millions of them now? Also, how many millions of Indians, and Africans? For their genotypes to substantially change would require vast amounts of admixture with Europeans, and there aren't enough of them, and they're not going to be moving to China any time soon. However, if there was some massive invasion of one area of the world by another, the rest of Asia or even the U.S. by China, everything would change.


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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    I don't think that the world population will homogenize into a single ethnicity any time soon, or ever because of geographic barriers and isolation. There are always remote places where people don't mix with others, or at least at an extremely low rate. Look at Papua New Guinean tribes, Andaman Islanders, some Amazon tribes, etc.

    If Andaman Islanders have managed to remain isolated from the outside world in crowded South Asia for perhaps 50,000 years, I doubt that such pockets of isolation will suddenly disappear.

    Even if those isolated tribes gave up their traditional lifestyle and joined the rest of the world, it would take thousands of years before the whole world is racially homogeneous. The bigger the world population the more generations it takes to spread the genes. With vertical farming and other new technologies, the Earth could support over 30 billion people.

    If humans suddenly started having more children everywhere (even in Africa) and the world population dropped fast to 1 billion or less, that could accelerate the homogenization process, if people remain increasingly mobile.

    However, the most cosmopolitan areas are typically big cities, then smaller cities, leaving the countryside relatively unmixed. This is where ancestral ethnic groups will survive the longest. Once again, the more remote the countryside (e.g. Alpine valley village, Tibetan hamlet, small island with few outside visitors...), the longer the genetic isolation will endure.

    In any case we would witness the creation of new ethnic group at the continental or regional scale, as has always happened. If you start in China with over 1 billion "pure" East Asians, you can't expect to end up with the same population in a few centuries as in sub-Saharan Africa where the starting population is "pure" African, no matter how much natural immigration.

    Then people do not choose to migrate to another country by accident. Mexicans typically choose to migrate to the USA, rarely to China or even Europe. And conversely very few Americans migrate to Mexico. Much more Africans migrate to Europe than the other way round, and it is typically to Western Europe, very rarely Eastern Europe. With such migration patterns, even if people mix perfectly across racial lines (which hasn't been the case even in the USA after 300 years of Blacks and Whites living together) the ending population in Western Europe would be very different from the one in Eastern Europe. The same regional fractioning would happen everywhere in the world.

    I do believe that new racial groups will emerge from racial intermarriages, but they just won't be uniform on the global scale. Given enough time, a new North American ethnicity will develop, but a different one from the West European, etc. Let's also note that the current trend of interracial marriages is strongest in Western countries (Latin America included, as it is actually where this trend started with the European colonisation), but relatively rare in non-Western countries, even developed ones like Japan and Korea. The Japanese do intermarry with other racial groups, but it is typically Western men with Japanese women, and most end up living in Western countries as Japan isn't exactly foreigner friendly. When Japanese men seek foreign brides to live with them in Japan, they are often Korean, Chinese or Southeast Asian (esp. Filipinas). This is why Japan will remain racially East Asian for longer despite intermarriages.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 22-03-15 at 11:27.
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    In America new genetically diverse cultural and ethnic identities formed. Latin America is a current example of this bi/tri/etc. futuristic world because Iberians, Amerindians, and Africans all mixed, yet most Americans are ignorant of this and view Latino as a type of pure race. In the USA white is used to define people, even culturally, because all the Euro ethnic groups mixed and assimilated into the same American culture.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Maciamo made some good points. There will always be isolated areas that remains more or less homogeneous. But am I correct to say that even in ancient admixtures have happened in high income economic areas of the world creating a new dimensions and standards in various aspects? Egypt, Mesopotamia (babylon and its chaotic languages, I think lebrok mentioned it at some point) Greece, Rome creating the mixtures we find today? Currently we have New york and London. I can only speak of London but being there you see people of all races in each and every part of its economy and I don't think that any of these cities would have achieved their present dynamics without so much mixing, new ideas and so on. Dubai is another one, and it hosts more outsiders then locals (with the difference that they will never be allowed to get citizenship there) China and India are maybe an exception, but then again I am not sure if they can be put on the same level as say New york or London. Of course there are many other cosmopolitan cities one can mention having the same effect. I think too much inbreeding, nationalism is more likely to make any nation weak in many aspects. Maybe I am wrong. Just thinking loud here.

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    Angela, those autosomal components you mention for Georgians are from different subgroups of the same race.

    And again, you all try to hide/ignore the fact that most of the old time race mixing was due to conquest, violence and rape.

    So enough with your agenda...

    And no, I am not conservative.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Angela, those autosomal components you mention for Georgians are from different subgroups of the same race.

    And again, you all try to hide/ignore the fact that most of the old time race mixing was due to conquest, violence and rape.

    So enough with your agenda...

    And no, I am not conservative.

    Stating facts is not proof of some "agenda", and I never brought politics into the discussion. As Maciamo and I said, there are parts of the world, more isolated, or with huge populations and little immigration, where differences will persist much longer, absent some cataclysmic event, but in North America, for example, given a thousand years or so there will be a new admixed group, and whatever the sad facts of human history, in the here and now I assure you it's not happening because of conquest or rape. It's propinquity.

    It also has nothing to do with any personal preferences of mine. Heck, I'm so antediluvian that I keep plotting how to get my daughter a job in Italy for a year or so in hopes she'll come home with an Italian husband, but then I'm not quite "American"!

    As for Caucasians and Near Easterners, perhaps this is news, but there are any number of people in this hobby, quite well known some of them, who indeed do not think they are "white" or members of the "white" race. Strangely enough, a few of them are themselves SSA admixed. Human psychology is endlessly fascinating.

    If we're talking about further back, the ancestral groups that mixed to produce "Europeans" did not look very much like modern Europeans; indeed, some of them probably looked pretty "Australoid" or "South Indian", but then phenotypes change based on the environment. I doubt environmental factors will have much effect going forward, however, at least not in industrialized countries, as we rather control for the environment.

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