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Thread: Will all people of the world mix creating one race in the future?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    To make it clear. Are you against arranged marriages, and for freedom to chose your own spouse?
    Be clear.

    Good, you are free to make this choice. Just remember, you should also respect and let others to make their own. That's all it is, freedom, equality and inclusiveness. No agenda, no forcing, no mind control.
    And who are you to force on others so called equality and inclusiveness?

    1. I am against arranged marriages
    2. responsible member of a group should make his choices according to wellbeing of the whole group, not following his selfish whims. Else he is out.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I'm already feeling at ease with all the races and most cultures on this planet.
    Boy, have I met a lot of people saying that. It all works fine as long as relations are superfluous. However, most culture of the world consider "freedom to marry a partner of your choice" (Your words) a travesty and an example of western pervertedness and you just made clear you consider that freedom very important.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Run small 8% intermarriage per generation in Vancouver (cosmopolitan city) through a formula and tell us how many years passes till 90% saturation.
    Is that with of without taking into consideration that most western societies are getting less and less children, far below sustaining level?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    And who are you to force on others so called equality and inclusiveness?

    1. I am against arranged marriages
    2. responsible member of a group should make his choices according to wellbeing of the whole group, not following his selfish whims. Else he is out.
    Who said anyone is forcing it on you?

    So, you would ostracize someone of your "group" who married "out"? You wouldn't be the first group to do that. It can work, too, especially if you live in some isolated enclave.

    You're probably not aware of it, but American Ashkenazi Jews used to "sit shiva" (mourn as if dead) for members of their families who married "out". I had a friend whose family did that.

    They seemed to have forgotten all about "The story of Ruth":
    "Ruth said, Entreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the Lord do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me. When Naomi saw that she was steadfastly minded to go with her, then she left speaking unto her. (KJV 1:16-18)"
    Ruth turned out to be King David's grandmother.

    It didn't do much good. Today, 50% of Jews marry out, although in some proportion of those marriages conversion to Judaism is involved.

    See, that's the nature of a free society. When people go to school together, play on sports teams together, work together, the "other" stops seeming so foreign, and propinquity takes its course. That's not to say that I don't think that the more alike two people are, the more likely that the marriage will be a success. I'm just stating the realities of the situation.

    The only way you can stop it is to live in some isolated enclave. The Caucasus mountains might be a good bet.

    Well, the Amish have managed it, but that's because religion is a powerful motivator, and they live lives almost totally isolated from the modern world...no electricity, no cars, no TV, no radio or modern music, going to school only with other Amish children usually, and their parents pull them out of school as soon as it's legally permissible.

    They're perfectly free to live that way, of course, but the number of converts to their way of life is ZERO.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    And who are you to force on others so called equality and inclusiveness?

    1. I am against arranged marriages
    Ha, got ya, you Leftist Liberalist.

    2. responsible member of a group should make his choices according to wellbeing of the whole group, not following his selfish whims. Else he is out.
    Oh, my group is great, no domestic war, good level of living, and cherishing our Freedoms. How is Conservative Georgia doing?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    "See, that's the nature of a free society. When people go to school together, play on sports teams together, work together, the "other" stops seeming so foreign, and propinquity takes its course."

    Yeah, that's why American public schools are so much success

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    What education has to do with it? Unless you mean some liberal agenda education :)
    The most racist persons in history were very educated folks.

    I don't really believe those 'facts' which mostly stem from biased sources.

    Preaching 'tolerance' usually is a subversive way to undermine targeted group's identity and security.

    'Humanity' is a social construct.
    "Catholic" and "Orthodox" are also social constructs. And your point is what, exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Ha, got ya, you Leftist Liberalist.

    Oh, my group is great, no domestic war, good level of living, and cherishing our Freedoms. How is Conservative Georgia doing?
    lol, I see you are burning from desire to pigeonhole me so I'll save the trouble for you. I've done some political assessment tests and they agree that I am a Libertarian Non-Interventionist Nativist Traditionalist happy now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    "Catholic" and "Orthodox" are also social constructs. And your point is what, exactly?
    To see my point have a look on what I replied with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    Two things. Firstly, a lot of these ideas, especially Enlightenment ideas, stem from a heretical branch of Christianity, that tried to bring about the Kingdom of God and salvation of mankind in this world and age. British filosopher John Gray wrote an excellent book about that relationship called Black Mass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_M...eath_of_Utopia

    Marxism itself is deeply rooted in the Enlightenment. So the fact that you found parallels in history doesn't disprove anything.

    Secondly there absolutely is a thing called Cultural Marxism, which has its deep roots in the sixties. The university leftists of the sixties were quite fond of people like Herbert Marcuse. Now he thought the working class sold out and focused on "non-integrated forces of minorities, outsiders, and radical intelligentsia attempting to nourish oppositional thought and behavior through promoting radical thinking and opposition", as wikepedia states it. Since large parts the culture of the sixties are basically becoming mainstream culture nowadays you have your chain of heritage connected to cultural marxists.

    Thirdly, these new cultural taboos are not enforced by propaganda or anything, but by shaming the persons that don't abide to it. Take a certain Rosetta scientists shirt as a perfect example of how it works.
    Yes, it's too bad we don't still live in the Dark Ages, when the Church had a monopoly on education, where serfs and women knew their place and where anyone who failed to be sufficiently obedient to their feudal overlord could be hanged, drawn and quartered. That evil phenomenon known as the Enlightenment really ruined things. But what about those ancient pre-christian cultures such as the pagan Celts where women had most of the same legal, economic and social rights as men? I guess they must have been time travelling cultural marxists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Angela, please, don't hand me over that propaganda pamphlet :) I've been in the States, I follow American news from left and right and have a pretty good picture of what is going on there.
    That progressive narrative just makes me lough.
    Non me ne frego, the Nature will reverse the tide when the time comes. ;) Ho finito qui.
    Foreigners understand as little of the U.S. as Americans understand of other countries. Perhaps that's only to be expected.

    Kardu: Yeah, that's why American public schools are so much success.
    Even if I accepted your implication, what, pray tell, does that have to do with the fact that propinquity leads to intermarriage? Could we please follow the rules of logic? Does anyone teach them anymore?

    Epoch: Two things. Firstly, a lot of these ideas, especially Enlightenment ideas, stem from a heretical branch of Christianity, that tried to bring about the Kingdom of God and salvation of mankind in this world and age. British filosopher John Gray wrote an excellent book about that relationship called Black Mass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_M...eath_of_Utopia
    Were ancient Greek women and the Gracchi also heretical Christians? I refuse to accept that you believe this...uh...silliness.

    Epoch: However, most culture of the world consider "freedom to marry a partner of your choice" (Your words) a travesty and an example of western pervertedness and you just made clear you consider that freedom very important.
    Actually they weren't my words, but what the heck! Why would I care what "most cultures" of the world think, especially when so many of the worst offenders in terms of women's issues are cultures where ignorance, poverty, disease and hunger are rampant? Not to mention violence both internally and externally with their "neighbors"? How is their world view working for them? The only exception might be some East Asian countries, and they are stupefyingly and stiflingly conformist. Why would I want to live in such places?

    As to people who move to western democracies and then complain about the values of the host country, I have a simple solution for them...go back home. When my family and I moved to the U.S. we accepted that it was incumbent on us to adjust, not that the U.S. would change to accommodate us. *

    *Ed. Well, my father had some difficulty letting go of some of his more traditional ideas about behavior, but he was thirty seven when he came to this country. Even then, he didn't want to impose his own views on others...he was just upset that they were infecting his children. Of course, for him as for anyone else, if you don't want your children to pick up modern western values, don't move to a modern, western country.

    You may not credit it, but I've been a very traditional and strict mother myself, to the extent that I could be in twenty-first century America. It's just that reality is reality and we have to all deal with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Yes, it's too bad we don't still live in the Dark Ages, when the Church had a monopoly on education, where serfs and women knew their place and where anyone who failed to be sufficiently obedient to their feudal overlord could be hanged, drawn and quartered. That evil phenomenon known as the Enlightenment really ruined things.
    That was not a very enlightened (pun intended) response, to be sure. Where to start?

    First, the enlightenment did not end what is commonly known as "the Dark Ages" [1]. It succeeded a period of modernity, in which economic wealth grew enormously and the framework for the modern age was laid (e.g. statehood as by Westphalian peace treaty). The proponents of the French revolution prided themselves with a law against serfdom while ignoring the fact that the practice was non-existent for centuries by then.

    Second, the idea that anyone who failed to be sufficiently obedient to their feudal overlord could be hanged, drawn and quartered is blatantly untrue in the centuries directly before the Enlightenment, and it was also untrue in most of the time in the Middle Ages, in most of Europe, even if these things did happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    But what about those ancient pre-christian cultures such as the pagan Celts where women had most of the same legal, economic and social rights as men?
    Imād Ad-Din was deeply disgusted by the liberties the wives of the crusaders had. Just to put things in perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    I guess they must have been time travelling cultural marxists.
    We've already discussed that.

    [1] The "Dark Ages" can mean the entire Middle Age period, or it can mean the period directly after the collaps of the Roman Empire. I can't really make out which you meant.
    Last edited by epoch; 23-03-15 at 21:26. Reason: rephrase

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    Even if I accepted your implication, what, pray tell, does that have to do with the fact that propinquity leads to intermarriage? Could we please follow the rules of logic? Does anyone teach them anymore?

    As to people who move to western democracies and then complain about the values of the host country, I have a simple solution for them...go back home.



    :) :) how many mixed African American-Latino couples do you know who ended to together due to propinquity at school?

    In every European country I lived I encountered and befriended lot of local people who think like me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Were ancient Greek women and the Gracchi also heretical Christians? I refuse to accept that you believe this...uh...silliness.
    Read the book, you'll find it at least an entertaining exercise. In it you'll find a lovely allegory by Schopenhauer on Kant and the Enlightenment, in which Kant dances with a masked beauty all night at a masked ball only to find at the end of the evening, when she reveals herself, that she is his own wife. The wife standing for Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Actually they weren't my words, but what the heck!
    Very true. The response obviously was to LeBrok, but who am I to refuse you to respond to it? ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Why would I care what "most cultures" of the world think, especially when so many of the worst offenders in terms of women's issues are cultures where ignorance, poverty, disease and hunger are rampant? Not to mention violence both internally and externally with their "neighbors"? How is their world view working for them? The only exception might be some East Asian countries, and they are stupefyingly and stiflingly conformist. Why would I want to live in such places?
    However, it was a remark specifically aimed at something LeBrok stated. I think we do not disagree. At least not here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    As to people who move to western democracies and then complain about the values of the host country, I have a simple solution for them...go back home. When my family and I moved to the U.S. we accepted that it was incumbent on us to adjust, not that the U.S. would change to accommodate us. *

    *Ed. Well, my father had some difficulty letting go of some of his more traditional ideas about behavior, but he was thirty seven when he came to this country. Even then, he didn't want to impose his own views on others...he was just upset that they were infecting his children. Of course, for him as for anyone else, if you don't want your children to pick up modern western values, don't move to a modern, western country.

    You may not credit it, but I've been a very traditional and strict mother myself, to the extent that I could be in twenty-first century America. It's just that reality is reality and we have to all deal with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    :) :) how many mixed African American-Latino couples do you know who ended to together due to propinquity at school?

    In every European country I lived I encountered and befriended lot of local people who think like me.
    Why would I mislead you or anybody else about such things? It's not only school, although many such matches used to be made at Catholic schools, especially where Puerto Ricans are concerned. It's also work related. I've worked with professionals who were European American, Chinese American, South Asian American, Black American, you name it. Given that I live and practiced in New York, lots and lots of Jewish Americans. I think all my doctors are either Jewish or Italian American. ( I really didn't do any of this deliberately, or at least it wasn't conscious.) In terms of employees the only things I've ever demanded are competence and hard work and a professional attitude.

    As to your question, let's see, one of my cousins married a Cuban-American girl he met in a Catholic high school in Miami. She doesn't look very "mixed" though, so perhaps she doesn't count? One of my secretaries was Puerto Rican, and she married an Irish boy (he became a cop) she met at a high school dance. My neighbor up the block is half Puerto Rican and half Irish and his wife is Irish/German/Polish American...lovely couple. I don't know how they met. My next door neighbor for years was also Cuban American. His wife was Peruvian and Venezuelan. Their son, whom I consider a sort of surrogate son of mine, now finishing his training in neurosurgery, is engaged to an Irish/Italian girl he met at university. A friend of my son's, a computer science type, is Korean American (and a devout born again type Protestant Christian...only in America. ). He's living with a girl who is sort of Euro-mutt. Another friend of my son's, an Indian boy just graduating from law school, is going through a drama because he is in love with another Euro mutt sort of American girl, and his family is demanding that he give her up. They're tearing him in two. It's very sad, as from what I can tell she's a very nice girl and really cares about him, probably enough to convert if that's what would satisfy them. Should I go on?

    Don't misunderstand me...this isn't the majority of marriages, but they exist, and in about the numbers quoted in the Pew Poll, which is a highly respected organization. You also have to factor in that I live in a very cosmopolitan, educated part of the country. It's not the same in certain parts of the country. Heck, when I was first working, some bozo from the south, a "big man" in the client company, got a little tipsy and told me that he had never met a "white woman" like me, by which he meant dark haired and dark eyed, Mediterranean, and therefore a little "exotic". (A total jerk, but I couldn't throw the beer in his face because he was the client. )

    It's true that intermarriage with African Americans is more rare, especially for white Americans. Only one such couple is part of my personal circle of acquaintance. They're both lawyers, and it's a second marriage for both of them. I don't doubt that it will become more common in the future. Certainly, the interaction is there. One of my closest friends is a Jamaican who moved to the U.S. as a teenager. She's a social worker I met through work.

    I'm leaving out the inter-ethnic marriages among European-Americans, because that includes almost everybody. I am one of twenty-four first cousins, and we're of an older generation, and yet only four of us married people of Italian descent. I've raised my children very "Italian", with yearly trips to Italy, and yet neither one has yet brought home someone of 100% Italian descent, although my son has introduced me to some half-Italians. My daughter seems to specialize in Irish American or Irish/German football players, (or maybe they choose her?)although she once went against type and dated a Persian Jewish boy who was in her high school. It didn't last more than a few weeks, but she went to his prom with him. He was a nice boy, but he wasn't her type.

    This is just the way that it is. It used to be determined by religion...Catholics found it easier to marry Catholics, but as religion has become less important, the circle has broadened so to speak. I know a whole cadre of Italian-American professional women married to Jews, for instance.

    As I said, this isn't the country for people who find this sort of dating and marrying offensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    That was not a very enlightened (pun intended) response, to be sure. Where to start?

    First, the enlightenment did not end what is commonly known as "the Dark Ages" [1]. It succeeded a period of modernity, in which economic wealth grew enormously and the framework for the modern age was laid (e.g. statehood as by Westphalian peace treaty). The proponents of the French revolution prided themselves with a law against serfdom while ignoring the fact that the practice was non-existent for centuries by then.

    Second, the idea that anyone who failed to be sufficiently obedient to their feudal overlord could be hanged, drawn and quartered is blatantly untrue in the centuries directly before the Enlightenment, and it was also untrue in most of the time in the Middle Ages, in most of Europe, even if these things did happen.



    Imād Ad-Din was deeply disgusted by the liberties the wives of the crusaders had. Just to put things in perspective.



    We've already discussed that.

    [1] The "Dark Ages" can mean the entire Middle Age period, or it can mean the period directly after the collaps of the Roman Empire. I can't really make out which you meant.
    Obviously, I was using the term "Dark Ages" in its original sense, i.e., from the fall of the western Roman Empire until the beginning of the Italian Renaissance in the 14th century, which is generally regarded as the beginning of the Enlightenment, so the Enlightenment that one of you was complaining about did in fact end the Dark Ages. And if you aren't aware of how brutally serfs and rebel knights were treated during the Medieval period, you need to do a bit of studying. But all this is getting a bit off topic. The important thing is that you haven't addressed in any way the one real point I made in with all my sarcasm. And that is that the kind of christian conservative mindset you seem to be promoting and which produces the kind of mindset that disapproves of intermarriage is a kind of cultural relativism, in that it reflects a social construct created in a specific time and place and not some kind of universal truth. Groups such as the ancient Celts wouldn't have understood such a mindset.

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    Angela, I specifically asked about intermarriage between African Americans and Latinos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    A friend of my son's, a computer science type, is Korean American (and a devout born again type Protestant Christian...only in America. ).
    About a quarter of Southern Korea is, nowadays. EDIT: A fifth of South-Korea is protestant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Another friend of my son's, an Indian boy just graduating from law school, is going through a drama because he is in love with another Euro mutt sort of American girl, and his family is demanding that he give her up. They're tearing him in two.
    And this is exactly what I referred to in my answer to LeBrok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It's very sad, as from what I can tell she's a very nice girl and really cares about him, probably enough to convert if that's what would satisfy them.
    And that is exactly what will be the cause for trouble. See, if we all mix, we simply have to convert to whatever finds it inexcusable to convert him- or herself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I've raised my children very "Italian", with yearly trips to Italy..
    Why? It is of no use, since you are an American. Not to insult or anything, but as you state yourself:

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    As I said, this isn't the country for people who find this sort of dating and marrying offensive.
    It seems so contradictory to laud the American melting pot and at the same time raise your children very Italian.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Furthermore, I am european. For the most of the trip that modern paleogenetics took us I find that I am very, very much part of the original population of this continent. Every time the Americans and Canadians sing praise of the melting pot I wonder: Do the Indians in your countries sing that same praise? I very much doubt it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Obviously, I was using the term "Dark Ages" in its original sense, i.e., from the fall of the western Roman Empire until the beginning of the Italian Renaissance in the 14th century, which is generally regarded as the beginning of the Enlightenment
    No its not generally regarded as the beginning of the Enlightenment. The age of reason, the Enlightenment is this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    so the Enlightenment that one of you was complaining about did in fact end the Dark Ages. And if you aren't aware of how brutally serfs and rebel knights were treated during the Medieval period, you need to do a bit of studying.
    I did. And they were at times, especially during the Banal revolution which was indeed as cruel as you describe. But for other large amounts of times in large parts it wasn't quite like that. Serfdom often was a required service. In the high middle ages you could have farmers that were half-free living on a manor and thus being required to work for their lord while they owned the commons as a village which was given out as a fief to that same lord. Disputes in such a situation were settled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    But all this is getting a bit off topic. The important thing is that you haven't addressed in any way the one real point I made in with all my sarcasm. And that is that the kind of christian conservative mindset you seem to be promoting and which produces the kind of mindset that disapproves of intermarriage is a kind of cultural relativism, in that it reflects a social construct created in a specific time and place and not some kind of universal truth. Groups such as the ancient Celts wouldn't have understood such a mindset.
    Uhm. You know how ancient Celts think? That's quite remarkable! PS: I think I made *my* point very clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    Furthermore, I am european. For the most of the trip that modern paleogenetics took us I find that I am very, very much part of the original population of this continent. Every time the Americans and Canadians sing praise of the melting pot I wonder: Do the Indians in your countries sing that same praise? I very much doubt it.
    I'm not European but as an American of Cajun French ancestry I completely agree. lmao

    We Acadian-French colonists never wanted to be part of the USA either; if you recall our history we were deported to Louisiana by the British, and then sold to the new USA by Napoleon Bonaparte with the Louisiana purchase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Angela, I specifically asked about intermarriage between African Americans and Latinos.
    I misunderstood. Of course it happens. My husband's office manager is Puerto Rican and she married an African American. A celebrity example is Jennifer Lopez, who had a lot of relationships with African American men. Do I need to list all the instances of which I'm aware? As the statistics I posted above indicated, intermarriage with African Americans lags behind intermarriages between other groups. From my personal experience I'd say that "Latino" families are happier if their children marry whites than if they marry African Americans, but then they come from very oppressive, colonialist, racist cultures.

    With Latinos it's also complicated because many of them are tri-racial. That's the case with Puerto Ricans, for example. They have Spanish, Amerindian and SSA ancestry. The percentages can differ by individual. You can have "white" looking Puerto Ricans, more "mixed" looking Puerto Ricans, and more "black" looking Puerto Ricans. Dominicans the same, although the ones here in New York, at least, seem to have more SSA. We don't have all that many Mexicans. I don't know what the story is with them in the southwest or California from personal experience. Here on the east coast we got a lot of Central American refugees in the last twenty years, but they're relative newcomers so they sort of keep more apart.

    I don't know what to tell you...people mix here and in other urban, cosmopolitan areas...maybe in Louisiana or Arkansas they don't, but they mix here, and also as per LeBrok's data, in areas like Vancouver, apparently. However, as I pointed out, it's not the majority of the marriages by any means even here. The vast majority of the people in my circle of acquaintance still marry within the major groupings. I listed the national statistics above. The point is that it is a growing percentage, and people aren't losing sleep over it. As the statistics showed, over 70% of the American people have no problem with inter-racial marriage, much less inter-ethnic marriage. People would think you're a nut job if you went around saying that the Italians should only marry Italians, or the Irish the Irish, or whatever. I don't understand why you guys are so worked up about it. So long as no one forces you to do it, what business is it of yours? You know what don't answer that...I probably wouldn't like the answer. Let's just say that even if you are worked up about it, it's irrelevant, because you're not going to stop it.

    Jeb Bush, brother of George Bush, and Republican candidate for President, his Hispanic wife Colomba and his son. (You just don't get any more "white bread", as we say, than the Bush family.)



    Another family picture:


    John McCain...past Republican candidate and his family, including his adopted daughter:

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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    Boy, have I met a lot of people saying that. It all works fine as long as relations are superfluous. However, most culture of the world consider "freedom to marry a partner of your choice" (Your words) a travesty and an example of western pervertedness and you just made clear you consider that freedom very important.
    200 years ago in Europe all marriages were forced, now almost none. There is a reason to suspect, that in the future when all world will develop economically, and liberalize at same time, the arranged marriages will be a thing of the past.

    Even in such conservative country as India, the trend goes into love marriages, also called Self-Arranged. Imagine that.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrange...n_subcontinent


    Is that with of without taking into consideration that most western societies are getting less and less children, far below sustaining level?
    Will this stop mixed marriages?

    Fertility rate drops everywhere these days. Look at Bangladesh stats. It dropped to 2.10 from 5.24 during last 30 years.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrange...n_subcontinent

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Angela, those autosomal components you mention for Georgians are from different subgroups of the same race.
    You're are assuming this pure (Eurpoid)race exists without any research. I'm not saying you do this but too many people today assume that they can figure out ancient origins by looking at modern cultures and ethnic groups.

    The latest academic research with dozens of ancient genomes suggest Middle easterns and Europeans trace their ancestry to 3 distinct stone age populations named: WHG, ANE, and Basal Eurasian. WHG and ANE are closely related, but Basal Eurasian is totally differnt. WHG-ANE are closer to East Asians than they're to Basal Eurasian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    And again, you all try to hide/ignore the fact that most of the old time race mixing was due to conquest, violence and rape.
    She doesn't have the agenda you think she does. Violence and rape did cause admixture in ancient times but you can't assume that's always how it happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    And who are you to force on others so called equality and inclusiveness?

    1. I am against arranged marriages
    2. responsible member of a group should make his choices according to wellbeing of the whole group, not following his selfish whims. Else he is out.
    I think I know what you're getting at and I agree: Original human society was of small tribes and most similar to modern families. So everything everyone does makes an affect on everyone. There are some who think freedom means do whatever the heck you want, and if it's disruptive to society do it behind closed doors. They'd be fine with people raping monkeys, as long as it was behind closed doors, and they don't even consider social morality. This goes against some of the most basic elements of making a human and human society.

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