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Thread: Will all people of the world mix creating one race in the future?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Corded, mediterrenian, alpine, mongoloid, some of negroes from Africa...
    But probably the other races were absorbed by lighter types, and that
    means, that probably the lighter types were much more numerous than
    the darker ones. In south Europe or in Asia, the absorbtion was differet:
    darker were probably more numeriuos than lighter types.

    p.s. Kardu - Georgians for us in Europe, are a pretty dark people...
    That's true - I think the average white person looking at a typical Georgian would classify them as being of mixed race. But hopefully Georgians would not be treated differently because of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    I'm all for people developing and enjoying national identities - I like mine. I just don't want to dictate to other people that they have to stay in the cultural mould they were born in if they aren't comfortable there.

    I think that in this discussion has place some misunderstanding.
    Maybe the topic should be diverse in two parts:
    1) personal, spontanious choices of peoples, which have exist always and no one had never nothing against it - f.e. Pushkin and his grandfather.
    2) massive invasion of people from diffrent culture and race background plus political indoctrination about cultural and race mixing - see Ainu case.
    Last edited by Rethel; 29-03-15 at 00:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Corded, mediterrenian, alpine, mongoloid, some of negroes from Africa...
    But probably the other races were absorbed by lighter types, and that
    means, that probably the lighter types were much more numerous than
    the darker ones. In south Europe or in Asia the absorbtion was different:
    darker were probably more numerous than lighter types.
    Actually, the whitening of Europeans was a long and local process, which pretty much ended just now. Whitening alleles coming from many populations, eventually accumulating in North Europe due to natural selection.
    Check our previous discussions. Interesting stuff.
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...t-back-to-life
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-modern-Europe
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ne-Gamba-et-al
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    That's true - I think the average white person looking at a typical Georgian would classify them as being of mixed race. But hopefully Georgians would not be treated differently because of that.
    Idiotic remark. Have you even seen a Georgian in your life?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Actually, the whitening of Europeans was a long and local process, which pretty much ended just now. Whitening alleles coming from many populations, eventually accumulating in North Europe due to natural selection.
    Check our previous discussions. Interesting stuff.
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...t-back-to-life
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-modern-Europe
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ne-Gamba-et-al
    And all those folks freely and happily mixed? I have the feeling that I am talking to a wall...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Actually, the whitening of Europeans was a long and local process, which pretty much ended just now. Whitening alleles coming from many populations, eventually accumulating in North Europe due to natural selection.
    Check our previous discussions. Interesting stuff.
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...t-back-to-life
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-modern-Europe
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ne-Gamba-et-al
    A was reading some of that before, but I don't belive in that miraculously way of whitening.
    This is simply impossible, because everywhere but not in Europe, whiter people were always
    absorbing by darker populations. If the receccive genes would be a very little percentige in the
    past, they would never manifest themselves in such large territory and widespread population.
    It could happend in some small island or small endogamic population, but even then, it would be
    very hard for recessive genes to prevail. I give you one example. Basks people are/were close
    and small population, but during the centuries they were constantly absorbing some lighter
    elements - but they are still a more dark than light population.

    Even one recessive gen - Rh minus - who has among them exrime higher percentige in the world, couldn't
    dominate the population. And this is just one of many examples, when 100% light or recessive population
    was gone inside darker or gen-dominant population. If 100% can vanish - how 1% or even 10% could become
    ~90%. No, I don't belive in that, I simply can't. :)



    There must be some more reasonable explenation, like for example a small recessive population
    who after years grow in number and dominated rest of the darker population on the continent.

    Otherwise - it is impossible to happend.
    Last edited by Rethel; 29-03-15 at 02:42. Reason: Sorry, I pressed Edit instead of Reply and possibly deleted some.

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    This thread has gotten off subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Idiotic remark. Have you even seen a Georgian in your life?
    I was make this "idiotic" remark, not Aberdeen, so you should tell this to me. Yes, I saw
    Georgians, Armenians, Chechens, and Abchazic people face to face, and I know some of
    them personally. If someone didn't see them 'on live', he can look at them on the Internet.
    No problem at all. If you have any douts, ask some Russians, how they call people from
    Caucasus in Moscow... I assure you that one of nicknames (most popular) is a color name :-P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    I was make this "idiotic" remark, not Aberdeen, so you should tell this to me. Yes, I saw
    Georgians, Armenians, Chechens, and Abchazic people face to face, and I know some of
    them personally. If someone didn't see them 'on live', he can look at them on the Internet.
    No problem at all. If you have any douts, ask some Russians, how they call people from
    Caucasus in Moscow... I assure you that one of nicknames (most popular) is a color name :-P
    you are obviously a ***** kiddie

    it says: t r o l l

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Actually, the whitening of Europeans was a long and local process, which pretty much ended just now. Whitening alleles coming from many populations, eventually accumulating in North Europe due to natural selection.
    Check our previous discussions. Interesting stuff.
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...t-back-to-life
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-modern-Europe
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ne-Gamba-et-al
    A was reading some of that before, but I don't belive in that miraculously way of whitening.
    This is simply impossible, because everywhere but not in Europe, whiter people were always
    absorbing by darker populations. If the receccive genes would be a very little percentige in the
    past, they would never manifest themselves in such large territory and widespread population.
    There was no mirracle. Genetic research is telling us that few thousand years ago there was no one looking exactly like modern Europeans. At the same time we can see many whiter mutations in different communities. We see some of them in Swedish HG, other mutations in Samara Russia region, other mutations in Neolithic Farmers. After few thousand years of natural selection, these mutations finally conglomerated in region of Baltic and North Sea. Simply put, people who had more of these mutations were healthier (didn't lack vitamin D), and had more healthier offspring, busting their survival. The whiter skin folks out-breaded the darker skin ones. The natural election trumpets recessiveness of these genes. No miracle needed.

    It could happend in some small island or small endogamic population, but even then, it would be
    very hard for recessive genes to prevail. I give you one example. Basks people are/were close
    and small population, but during the centuries they were constantly absorbing some lighter
    elements - but they are still a more dark than light population.
    That's because they live farther south, in stronger UV index zone, and very white mutations of skin are not needed. It is even destructive for population there to be very white and will causes many more cases of cancer, than darker skin.
    Colour of skin is a balance between getting enough vitamin D and protection from skin cancer, melanin. That's why colour of skin correlates with climatic zones, UV index, plus diet containing D3.


    Even one recessive gen - Rh
    minus - who has among them exrime higher percentige in the world, couldn't dominate the
    population. And this is just one of many examples, when 100% light or recessive population
    was gone inside darker or gen-dominant population. If 100% can vanish - how 1% or even
    10% could become ~90%. No, I don't belive in that, I simply can't. :)
    Recessive function kicks in when genes are equal. However if a gene is very important and beneficial for certain populations, this gene becomes dominant by law of natural selection.


    There must be some more reasonable explenation, like for example a small recessive population
    who after years grow in number and dominated rest of the darker population on the continent.

    Otherwise - it is impossible to happend.
    Again, thinking only in terms of recessive genes, fogs understanding how genes are selected. Just think that if a genetic function is very popular in a group of people, it means that it had to be selected for important reason. Like colour of skin, or lactose persistence in some populations, but not in others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    There was no mirracle. Genetic research is telling us that few thousand years ago there was no one looking exactly like modern Europeans.
    I dont argue with that statement. It is not only correct by science standards, but
    also expected according to archeological evidences, historic records and anthropology.

    At the same time we can see many whiter mutations in different communities.
    Ok, it could be, but it hasn't to be undependent events.
    Source of that could be exchange of women between populations in not observed past.

    We see some of them in Swedish HG, other mutations in Samara Russia region, other mutations in Neolithic Farmers. After few thousand years of natural selection, these mutations finally conglomerated in region of Baltic and North Sea.
    And this is hocus-pocus, that people from different parts of the world, have similar
    independent mutation and all of them came into one place after thousends of years...
    I don't have so big faith

    Simply put, people who had more of these mutations were healthier (didn't lack vitamin D), and had more healthier offspring, busting their survival. The whiter skin folks out-breaded the darker skin ones.
    Ok, with that statement i'm perfectly agree.

    That's because they live farther south, in stronger UV index zone, and very white mutations of skin are not needed. It is even destructive for population there to be very white and will causes many more cases of cancer, than darker skin.
    So... why white even nordic-looking people are still living in the hot
    south regions still not dying and not becoming darker by themselves,
    and on the other hand dark people are especilly occupied all north and
    coldest parts of the world, where sun is the most rare subject on the sky
    by half of the year. Don't you see, that this theory doesnt work!?

    Colour of skin is a balance between getting enough vitamin D and protection from skin cancer, melanin. That's why colour of skin correlates with climatic zones, UV index, plus diet containing D3.
    So... why eskimos and yakuts are still alive?
    And why blond-heired beduins are still alive
    in Sahara... Why? They all should be dead!

    Recessive function kicks in when genes are equal. However if a gene is very important and beneficial for certain populations, this gene becomes dominant by law of natural selection.
    But first he must exist and don't die with his first owner.

    Again, thinking only in terms of recessive genes, fogs understanding how genes are selected. Just think that if a genetic function is very popular in a group of people, it means that it had to be selected for important reason. Like colour of skin, or lactose persistence in some populations, but not in others.
    Hocus-pocus.
    It doesn't have to be like that. If you have blond and red alleles
    in family, it is simply a coincidense which of them will be inherited.
    There is not such a thing like dying because of having red hair, or
    dying because of not having red hair. This is simple and reasonable.

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    Lebrok,
    Here's a a detailed analysis of pre-Historic Euros pigmentation markers.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PV...yy8&authuser=0

    Late Neolithic/Bronze age Germans and Hungarians; 4,5000 years ago, would defiantly pass as modern Europeans in skin tone, so a few thousand years ago is too recent. They had more 374F than their ancestors and slightly less than modern North Europeans. Also, Mesolithic Motalas and EHG had no known major dark markers at high frequency. So, there's no confirming evidence EEF introduced a new pale marker to Europe, unless there's undiscovered ones. You're theory about multiple pops giving light genes to Euros still makes sense though.

    There's isn't enough knowledge of the science beyond skin color to say Yamna, EEF, etc. were darker than modern Europeans. It's a very good guess they were but that's it. I'd say that most of North European's ancestors 5,000 years ago were of a West Asian or South European tone. We can see in ancient DNA between 3,000-2,000BC markers for light skin and blue eyes rose in frequency but weren't at modern frequencies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Idiotic remark. Have you even seen a Georgian in your life?
    Yes, I've met a few - I live in a country that has immigrants from all around the world. And I've seen many Georgians on television and on the internet. Georgians were all over the evening news a few years ago, having a bit of an disagreement with Russia about where Georgia's borders were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Ok, it could be, but it hasn't to be undependent events.
    Source of that could be exchange of women between populations in not observed past.
    Mutations just happen spontaneously. Most mutations are not good, and mostly people die having them. However, people with positive mutations, mutations which give them any advantage, will always have more kids and over-populate the ones without these positive mutations.



    And this is hocus-pocus, that people from different parts of the world, have similar
    independent mutation and all of them came into one place after thousends of years...
    I don't have so big faith
    Not different parts of the world, they were all close by in Europe by Neolithic. By invasions, by trading women, or any other way, positive mutations were introduced in the Northern Europe. In Northern Europe, the mutations found the perfect grounds, and rooted in, and multiplied in population.

    So... why white even nordic-looking people are still living in the hot
    south regions still not dying and not becoming darker by themselves,
    and on the other hand dark people are especilly occupied all north and
    coldest parts of the world, where sun is the most rare subject on the sky
    by half of the year. Don't you see, that this theory doesnt work!?
    White people can live around the planet (these days) by the ways of civilization, They wear cloves to protect skin against UV radiation. Australians, or other colonial British in tropics, wore and wear hats, protection against the sun.
    Regardless of their protection, when you check statistics you will find out that Australians white people have most skin cancer cases in the world. Especially when suntanning came fashionable in 80s. Nature tells us that they don't have the best skin colour for that climate.



    So... why eskimos and yakuts are still alive?
    And why blond-heired beduins are still alive
    Eskimos and Inuits (people of Arctic) they all consume fresh (uncooked) seal liver, rich in vitamin D3. Liver of mammals is a storage of vitamins and minerals. Having diet like this, rich in vitamin D3, you don't need to suntan to get produce it. They also suntan a lot when possible.


    in Sahara... Why? They all should be dead!
    Look at Bedouins (lighter skin people in Sahara) they all wear cloths from head to toes to protect themselves against strong UV. This is the way they can survive there.
    See the difference between suntan grandma and pinck skin baby.



    Hocus-pocus.
    It doesn't have to be like that. If you have blond and red alleles
    in family, it is simply a coincidense which of them will be inherited.
    There is not such a thing like dying because of having red hair, or
    dying because of not having red hair. This is simple and reasonable.
    Red head is just a sort of transition phase between Blond and Brunet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    But first he must exist and don't die with his first owner.
    Go back to Mendel law and you will see that even the recessive mutation has a chance to survive, to be expressed. When it does it gives a chance for this positive gene to take off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Go back to Mendel law and you will see that even the recessive mutation has a chance to survive, to be expressed. When it does it gives a chance for this positive gene to take off.
    In a way, I am a bit skeptical of the Natural Selection theory myself. How come Europeans can become fair-skinned; but East Asian Mongoloids who are also fair-skinned because of "Natural Selection" lack mutations for different hair color or eye color?

    And if Europeans became fair-skinned in the Neolithic; does this mean that the East Asian Mongoloids also became fair-skinned at the same time?


    Would it make better sense that both races developed these mutations during the Ice Age? And I have seen La Brana man and Loschbour man too; and know they had dark skin ... but could this be an error of sorts? They have the blue eyes but not the fair-skin. Yet Asians have fair-skin but no mutations in eye color. bizarre

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melancon View Post
    In a way, I am a bit skeptical of the Natural Selection theory myself. How come Europeans can become fair-skinned; but East Asian Mongoloids who are also fair-skinned because of "Natural Selection" lack mutations for different hair color or eye color?
    They do have one of few European mutations, IIRC, plus more Asian ones.





    And if Europeans became fair-skinned in the Neolithic; does this mean that the East Asian Mongoloids also became fair-skinned at the same time?
    Not exactly at same time, and not exactly same mutations. It is actually impassible for two separate populations to get same mutations. And this is actually what we can observer. The populations have lighter skins up North but not necessarily from exact mutations.


    Would it make better sense that both races developed these mutations during the Ice Age? And I have seen La Brana man and Loschbour man too; and know they had dark skin ... but could this be an error of sorts? They have the blue eyes but not the fair-skin. Yet Asians have fair-skin but no mutations in eye color. bizarre
    I don't believe the La Brana was really brown. I think we don't have complete knowledge of all the mutations and their impact on skin colour, therefore can exactly predict. I also think we got some munitions from Neanderthals but after so many years and additional mutations they became unrecognizable as Neanderthal ones. Anyway whatever the colour they were they were not as white as today's Europeans. The general picture of mutations tells us that the Europeans got the whitest recently from conglomeration of all the white skin mutations from all the Northern and Neolithic Peoples in the area.

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    Thats nature, bacteria gets resistant to antibiotics for its survival (keeps mutating) (hostile environment for it to keep on surviving), Flu Viruses or any Viruses get resistant to flu vaccine or medication (keeps mutating) (hostile environment for it to keep on surviving), Furry Mammoths developed fur to keep them warm compared to their Asian or African counterparts, birds developed different type of beaks as a tool according to the type of food source they manage to find in the environment.

    If our dna is pointing an original spot which takes us to Africa there is no other plausible theory that skin eye and hair colour evolved on the way of the migrating journey unless a group of Albinos decided to run away and make an escape from Africa. Thats the miracle of nature, all living things adapt for survival and humans are nothing more special. We are made up of trillion of cells which have the chemical combination for survival as much as a one celled organism.

    Very simple that Blond hair, light eyes and pale skin are nothing more then lack of Melanin and its concentration levels is well known to be UV related so to what other reasons do we have the results we have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post


    Look at Bedouins (lighter skin people in Sahara) they all wear cloths from head to toes to protect themselves against strong UV. This is the way they can survive there.
    See the difference between suntan grandma and pinck skin baby.


    There is much more solar reflection in permanent snow covered area (which could also have much less cloud cover in many such areas) due to reflection then say a forest covered region in cool climates due to the UV absorbance rate from the type of environment and normally heavy cloud cover (higher precipitation) too that goes with it to provide the area with lush green canopies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Yes, I've met a few - I live in a country that has immigrants from all around the world. And I've seen many Georgians on television and on the internet. Georgians were all over the evening news a few years ago, having a bit of an disagreement with Russia about where Georgia's borders were.
    Show me photos of several Georgians and tell me mix of which races do the look like to you

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Mutations just happen spontaneously. Most mutations are not good, and mostly people die having them. However, people with positive mutations, mutations which give them any advantage, will always have more kids and over-populate the ones without these positive mutations.
    Mutation you can have only in one person. If that person die before he mulitply
    this mutstion will be dead with him also. And if this is recessive mutation - it can
    be vanish very quickly in dominant population.

    Look at Iranian plateu and India. Where are these original Aryans with blond
    hair and blue eyes... they all vanished, even they were very numerous. Only in
    some isolate villages light people still exist or the lighter genes are still present
    in general population, but they show themselves very rare - every generation
    they become rarer. And they still exist probably only because of later invasions
    and colonisations of Greeks, Scythians, or even some slavic slaves. They are not
    dead because of sun, but they became fewer because of dominant darker population.
    That's all.

    Not different parts of the world, they were all close by in Europe by Neolithic.
    If this mutations create themselves in different parts undependently, that means
    that this happend in different parts of the world - especialy in neolithic, when Europe
    it was a whole planet with many different minicivilisations in every isolate village.

    By invasions, by trading women, or any other way, positive mutations were introduced in the Northern Europe.
    As you see, it could be reasonable.

    In Northern Europe, the mutations found the perfect grounds, and rooted in, and multiplied in population.
    So why Lapps, Nenets, Yakuts and so on, dont became fair by themselves, and why they still exist?

    White people can live around the planet (these days) by the ways of civilization, They wear cloves to protect skin against UV radiation. Australians, or other colonial British in tropics, wore and wear hats, protection against the sun. Regardless of their protection, when you check statistics you will find out that Australians white people have most skin cancer cases in the world. Especially when suntanning came fashionable in 80s. Nature tells us that they don't have the best skin colour for that climate.
    It doesn't proof anything. If they all would be naked, they surly wouldn't die - every one of 20
    million, and they surely wouldn't become dark sikinned by themselves. It is simply impossible.

    Eskimos and Inuits (people of Arctic) they all consume fresh (uncooked) seal liver, rich in vitamin D3. Liver of mammals is a storage of vitamins and minerals. Having diet like this, rich in vitamin D3, you don't need to suntan to get produce it. They also suntan a lot when possible.
    As you see, always you can find an explanation. Fair people in Europe
    didn't have enough sun, didn't eat good food... so... they all should be
    dead - but they were not...

    Look at Bedouins (lighter skin people in Sahara) they all wear cloths from head to toes to protect themselves against strong UV.
    Another explanation. Always the same.
    But... they are not fair by themselves... they are descendants of light european people - and this is only soure of their color.
    Yakuts or Lapps, like normal Berbers or regular Bedouins in Levant, are not descendants of european fair people, and this is
    only reason, why they are not fair skinned - when Lapps, Yakuts or Berbers met some light people, they absorbed genes and
    some of them can be light - no becouse they had mutation, but because they had something new in their gen-pool. Without
    that, every one of north populations were dark - hundrets of isolate small tribes. No one of them became fair by their own.
    None of them. And light populations in souther countries lived very well - in ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia and so on. Only theat
    of their existance were war, and mixing with another darker people, and this is only logical and prooved explanation.

    This is the way they can survive there.
    But you probably on purpouse don't see that this what you want to proof
    doesn't work in real, and you don't see that your explanations of that fact
    are disproofing your original statement.


    See the difference between suntan grandma and pinck skin baby.
    And? This is only proof, that some recessive genes allready exist in the population,
    and they show themselves sometimes. Her dauther did not mutate by her own, and
    if she is only one on big population she has zero chance to dominate all continent,
    even if there exist some ten more dauthers in another parts of the continent

    By the way, as you see, grandma, who becomes a descendant of paleolithic HG
    from the north, is still... dark... her ascendants didn't die and didn't become lighter.

    What it is this tribe Sunta?

    Red head is just a sort of transition phase between Blond and Brunet.
    But having this transition or laking of it, doesn't decide who will be dead and who will be alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardu View Post
    Show me photos of several Georgians and tell me mix of which races do the look like to you
    I don't see what the problem is. Georgians appear to already be the well mixed people of the future that we've been discussing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    I don't see what the problem is. Georgians appear to already be the well mixed people of the future that we've been discussing.
    As we can see: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...logroups.shtml there among the Georgians
    can live some light people, because 1/5 of the whole male population have indoeuropean ascendents.
    So, even if this 19% of them would be albinos' (but it isn't true) still 81% will be dark, so a regular man
    from Georgia will be for normal european person darker than himself. Among the links which show me
    LeBrok, is showing this map:



    If enyone has any doubts I think this should ended this doubts.
    If Kardu you still dont belive us, how we see your contry people,
    go with 10 neighours in summer on the sun for whole day, and
    after that tell us, how many of you have sun's scalds... Then
    you will know how big percentage of Georgians is light...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    I don't see what the problem is. Georgians appear to already be the well mixed people of the future that we've been discussing.
    How are Georgians well mixed?

    They are Caucasoid and no darker than South Europeans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post

    This is a very interesting photo.
    It comes from this website: http://www.johntyman.com/arctic/inuit406.html

    Those people are Eskimos.
    So, they naturaly, have some european admixture.

    But though they still have dark pigmentation.
    Thoudands of thousands of years of living in the farest
    north than european fair people lived didn't lighted them.
    Even some european admixture didn't help with that.

    On this site we can see another examples of dark people living without sun in cold climate.
    What is amazing, they are still alive after thousands of years... in Europe they should be
    dead since minimum 5000 years... but in America... everything is possible...

    Those Eskimos are even darker than I thout.
    I always assosiated them with dark eyes and hair.
    But they skin is very dark too.

    Another examples from LeBrok source:











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