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I don't think the Solutrean idea holds up, for some of the reasons that sparky mentioned. However, I have another theory, which I know he also disagrees with. To understand it, you have to realize that Y haplotype R1 is the second most common Native American haplotype in North America, but it's largely absent from South American populations. And although R1 is fairly common among Dene, it's the main Y haplotype among some Algonquin speaking tribes and is common among some other tribes that used to live around the Great Lakes area, such as Iroquoan and Siouian speaking people. Geneticists have stated that the R1 in Native Americans is all from modern Europeans as a result of post-Columbian contact, even among tribes like the Ojibwe who are 79 percent R1. And why do the geneticists think that all the R1 among Native Americans is from modern Europeans? Well, it just is, so let's not discuss the issue. But I want to discuss the issue, especially since the mtDNA X2 is clustered almost completely among tribes who have high R1. I think another piece of the puzzle is the fact that, although the first wave of people into the Americas happened about 15,000 years ago, there was a separate wave of people into the Americas about 8.000 years ago. The theory currently accepted by academia is that this wave of settlement was fairly small and was limited to Dene speakers, but I've never seen any solid facts to support that idea. My own theory is that the wave of immigration 8,000 years ago was much larger than has been assumed and that the largest component consisted of Algonquin speakers who migrated east to the Great Lakes area. They are the ones who brought Y-R1 and mtDNA-X2 to North America. As for any Q that is too modern to have been part of either early wave of settlement, as long as its a fairly small component, I think it could be accounted for by small, more recent waves of immigration from Siberia. We know that the Dorset and Thule people arrived in the Americas just a few thousand years ago, and there could have been a few other small groups that headed south and mixed with existing populations.
First time I saw R1 signature in NA I thought it was a gift from Vikings, who settled East Coast for a while around 1,000 CE during warm medieval period.The problem with the distribution of R1 and X2 is that it appears to be limited tothe eastern half North America. That would seem to suggest a rather recent origin, otherwise it would be evenly distributed over both continents.
Also, any migration by foot would have to happen during the glacial maximum, I would think. There's still a lot of blue water at the North Pole that was iced over.
First time I saw R1 signature in NA I thought it was a gift from Vikings, who settled East Coast for a while around 1,000 CE during warm medieval period.
I won't quarrel with that. R1/X2 could have come at a later date than Q-L55/C1 though. My prediction is that Q-L55/C1 came over with the Solutreans and R1/X2 came over with either the Solutreans or some of their descendants before 10,000 years ago. Motala6 (Sweden, 8,000 ybp) tested L55+. And downstream of Q-L55 (Q1a2a) are the Native American Q-M3 and Q-Z780. And the unique mtdna C1e and C1f have been found in Scandinavia. But if I'm wrong I'll have to eat my words.The way I understand Native American hg. X2 is that it's been here (U.S. and Canada) for at least 10,000 years.
I was just looking at Family Tree DNA's mtdna Haplogroup C Project webpage where it shows the map of the locations of their most distant ancestors. Of the 39 locations of the most distant known ancestors for people confirmed there as belonging to mtdna C1, 37 of the locations show the Americas, and the other 2 show Spain. And the locations are País Vasco, Spain (for an individual with Confirmed Haplogroup: C1b) and Cantabria, Spain (for an individual with Confirmed Haplogroup: C1c1b). And those locations are right next to each other in the centre of the north coast of Spain, right where the Solutreans allegedly made their journey to America from.
Yes, that’s got to be considered. On the corresponding haplogroup assignment results page there, they list a C1c1b as “Ungrouped” right at the bottom, but I don’t know if it’s the Spanish C1c1b in question. And I can’t tell if there’s a C1b on the list that’s that much different from the others.
There’s a similar situation with Q-M3 on the ydna Haplogroup Q project webpage. Out of about 50 individuals’ locations on their map, all but one of them are in the Americas, and the one that isn’t is in Gibraltar (which borders Spain and where there are Solutrean sites).
England | 8 | |
Scotland | 2 | |
Ireland | 2 | (one unique surname) |
Sweden | 1 | |
Germany | 1 | |
Norway | 1 | |
United Kingdom | 1 | |
Unknown Origin | 2 |
...Maybe they looked similar to Patrick Stewart with somewhat darker skin...
I’m a bit surprised that there isn’t more activity on this thread. I suspect a lot of people are afraid of supporting the Solutrean Hypothesis for fear of being called racist. I think that’s ironic though, since I think it’s quite possible that the Solutreans were the first settlers of NorthWestern Europe after the ice sheets there from the Last Glacial Maximum melted. Just look at the distribution of haplogroup Q in Europe, for instance. Something like 40 percent of the average genetic makeup of Native Americans may be attributable to the Solutreans, whereas the component might make up just a few percent of the genomes of NorthWest Europeans. Maybe it could be argued that the Cherokees, Ojibwes and Micmacs are the Native NorthWest Europeans.
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