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Thread: Horse, Linguistic History and more

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelless View Post
    Well the Albanian words kalë(horse) and pelë(mare) both probably have origin from the Latin caballus. Respectively kalë <> caballus, and pelë <> caballus.
    Albanian "pelë" it's not of Latin origin, but PIE; cognates English "foal".

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    all the way, latin had a *pul- (different from *pull->> birds ?) root for 'foal' so surely cognate too...
    it 's true that the Pixelles hypothesis seams wrong to me (two ways of stressing in a same language for a same root)

  3. #53
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    I'm wrong too, sorry !!! the stress in some languages can move, so... but then whe could have expected a trace of the old *K-(before p-l-) and the supposed *-b- intervocalic, disappeared in 'calë' is uneasy to explain under the form of 'p-' in 'pelë'
    but we are here among hypothesis very unreliable...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Mare - horse female, English.

    mare Basque, mara Estonian, mare Georgian, mare Lao, mare Norwegian


    kobila Slavic, cavalla Italian, keve Latvian, kanca Hungarian (possible cognate with Slavic "kon"?)

    euga Catalan, Portugues, yegua Spanish

    stu Germanic
    pele Albanian
    iapa Romanian
    klacz Polish
    matak Armenian
    tamma Finnish
    forada Greek
    khodi Hindi
    larach Irish
    equa Latin
    kumele Lithuanian
    kisrak Turkish
    gaseg Welsh
    thanks for some words: but sorry, the basic form in welsh (and breton, cornish) is with a K- soind: 'caseg'

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    all the way, an old form *ekw-/*akw- seams common to 2 celtic branches, to latin, greek, baltic and indo-iranian languages...

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    From Wiki:

    "Kehoe/Keogh is one of several versions of the Irish name "Mac Eochaidh" which translates as ‘son of Eochaidh’, a personal name based on each ‘horse’. There is also a similar Danish surname, Keøgh"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selwyn Greenfrith View Post
    From Wiki:

    "Kehoe/Keogh is one of several versions of the Irish name "Mac Eochaidh" which translates as ‘son of Eochaidh’, a personal name based on each ‘horse’. There is also a similar Danish surname, Keøgh"
    this danish KEÖGH is very surprising to me: have you the DANISH meaning???
    for ireland I add that exists too a KEOUGH form

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    this danish KEÖGH is very surprising to me: have you the DANISH meaning???
    for ireland I add that exists too a KEOUGH form
    If it is indeed Irish, then another likely spelling for Kehoe would be: 'Keown' Right now I don't have any other meanings for this lastname - though still reckon 'kehoe' is an English lastname to do with the landscape rather than an Irish lastname somehow to do with horses. Indeed, I can't understand that well how it links into the Danish lastname: Keøgh(?)

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    except an error, I see no link between KEOGH/KEOUGH/KEHOE and KEOWN
    KEHOE is irish and only irish, I think -
    KEOWN evocates me a gaelic scottish name MCKEOWN formed upon MAC-EWEN/MAC-EWAN (MAC EOGHAIN? seamingly "saxonization" under the forms: EUNSON/EWENSON in eastern Scotland) as MACKINTOSH for MAC-INTOSH

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    for danish KEÖGH if think it is a bad spelling for whether KOEGH or KÖGH old spellings of final -GH (as in flemish) for spired -G
    a danisj word exists: kög = "to bake", "to cook" !?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    except an error, I see no link between KEOGH/KEOUGH/KEHOE and KEOWN
    KEHOE is irish and only irish, I think -
    KEOWN evocates me a gaelic scottish name MCKEOWN formed upon MAC-EWEN/MAC-EWAN (MAC EOGHAIN? seamingly "saxonization" under the forms: EUNSON/EWENSON in eastern Scotland) as MACKINTOSH for MAC-INTOSH


    Moesan, Kehoe is Irish. Mac Ceóch, Mac Keogh, Keogh are variants of Mac Eochadha [ son of Eochaidh..common personal name in ancient Ireland].
    There was a Leinster stock and a Ui Maine stock [descended from Maine Mor] I think this is the one in question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    Moesan, Kehoe is Irish. Mac Ceóch, Mac Keogh, Keogh are variants of Mac Eochadha [ son of Eochaidh..common personal name in ancient Ireland].
    There was a Leinster stock and a Ui Maine stock [descended from Maine Mor] I think this is the one in question.
    thanks Hope (I think this explication was given yet, maybe by yourself -
    my remark was only about the apprently false link between all these KEOGH/KEHOE cognates AND KEOWN

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    thanks Hope (I think this explication was given yet, maybe by yourself -
    my remark was only about the apprently false link between all these KEOGH/KEHOE cognates AND KEOWN

    I see

    Well in case you have not come across the Keown yet, it is Irish too according to Woulfe. It is listed as MacEóin
    [which was assumed by a Scottish family who settled around the Glens of Antrim].
    Also acc. to Woulfe there is another name which is pronounced almost in same way which is of course Mac Eoghain. I think Selwyn Greenfrith noticed Keown might be Irish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    I see

    Well in case you have not come across the Keown yet, it is Irish too according to Woulfe. It is listed as MacEóin
    [which was assumed by a Scottish family who settled around the Glens of Antrim].
    Also acc. to Woulfe there is another name which is pronounced almost in same way which is of course Mac Eoghain. I think Selwyn Greenfrith noticed Keown might be Irish.
    OK no big surprise - If I don't do any mistake, Eoin is one of the irish gaelic forms for John/Jean/Yann/Giobanni... not very far (phonetics) from Eoghain descendant words-

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    It is very probable that Albanian word kalë (horse) be related with the verb kaloj (“pass”, “go off”, “transfer”, “overstep”, etc.). As I’ve pointed out, the suffix “-oj” turns a noun into a verb, but actually Albanian lacks the noun kal/ë (“pass”, “transfer” …) and there does exist only kalë (horse) instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Somehow it might be a polish construct of kon (horse) and wal (hit with hammer), hens konwal -> kowal (smith that makes iron horseshoes and installs them with nails to the hoofs.)
    In lithuanian:
    "kalvis" - the smith (human)
    "kalvė" - smith workshop, smith house
    "kalti" - verb ("to hit" with hammer)
    "kaltas, kaltuvas" - chisel, cutter, gouge - you hit it with hummer

    About horse in lithuania:
    "žirgas" - nice, big horse; war horse; sport horse
    "kumelė - female horse;
    "kumelys, kumeliukas" - young horse
    "kuinas" - weak, skinny old horse
    "ašva" - old lithuanian 'kumelė"
    "arklys" - working horse, linked to "arklas". Look in wikipedia for "ard_(plough) - arklas"

    "asilas" - donkey

    We have lots of words to describe horses by color: "juodbėras, kirsnas, bėras, sartas, raudas, kaštanas, palšas, šėmas, pelėkas, širmas, obuolmušas, bulanas, gelsvis, derešas, keršas, šlakis, šyvis, laukas..." :)

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    In Circassian (Adyghe) (West Caucasian group of languages) the word "horse" is pronounced something like this:
    "shee" - horse

    Suppose that thanks to the “mountain isolation” in the Circassian language, tokens lost by the European languages ​​(what is called polysyntheism) are preserved
    If, with the help of the Circassian language tokens, we try to decompose the words of European languages ​​denoting a horse, it will turn out something like this (with the maximum allowance for the original pronunciation in each of the languages ​​presented):

    loshad (rusland) "loo" - allowing to fight "sha" - horse, "d" - (indicates the possibility of action)
    horse (english) "ho" - man, "ris" - what is sitting on
    caballo (spanish) "keualo" - explosive, (or the one they beat)
    cavallo (italy) "keualo" - explosive, (or the one they beat)
    cheval (france) "shee" - horse "ual" - mad
    pferd (germany) "pfer" - the one you drive, "d" - (indicates the possibility of action)
    equo (latin) "e" - (pointer to something), "k" + “diphthong“ + "o" - move
    kon (poland) "k" + “diphthong“ + "on" - move, head somewhere
    ceffyl (wales) "kefil" - fitted
    capall (ireland) "kep" + “diphthong“ + "il" - the one you hold (held)
    hestur (island) "he" - carrier "str" - fever
    hevonen (finland) "heuon" - the one you hit, "en" - the end of the verb in undefined form

    The problem is that the polysynthesis of the Circassian language is so rich that there can be many options for transcription. For example: imagine that each separate letter of the Latin alphabet in the Circassian language means a separate word (or several words), combinations of two letters mean a separate word (or several words), etc.

    What this all means, I do not fully understand. When I tried to show this in Russia, I was treated as an ethnic nationalist. But I just don’t know tokens in other languages.
    In the manner shown, many words can be decomposed in Western European languages.

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    I did not read all posts , but an idea came to mind .
    The gaulish word Caballos that gave the french Cheval , is probably based on an onomatopoeia ( onomatopée in french is far easier ! ) , imitating the noise of a horse galloping
    ( an english word from the same origin , onomatopoeia of the same meaning) . This word Caballos gave a few other in french like : galloper , cavaler ( to run fast ) .
    So it is probably not the only word used by the Gauls to name a horse , but a word that became popular , Ekos could be another one ?

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