Y DNA in Normandy

Anthro-inclined

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Hello Everybody. I See That There Is No Y Dna Chart For The French Region Of Normandy. I Was Wondering If Anybody Could Provide A Clear Concise Layout Of Y Dna Frequencies In Normandy. All I Have Been Able To Gatherbis That Haplogroup I Reaches 25 Percent In The Region And It Has A High Instance Of Germanic R1b About 30 To 40 Percent.
 
Alright so its been a few days since i posted this thread, and there hasn't been any reply, so i decided to take matters into my own hands and try to compile the most accurate frequency chart i could, with the available information on the web.

Lower NormandyR1b71%I24%(I1a)12%E1b1b10%J2%
G1%R1a2%
Sources:
I- www.ncbi.nlm.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181996/. Also used Ftdna Normandy Y-dna project to reference these findings, Study was in 3 percent of what article stated.

R1b- Took a head count of Participants in Normandy Y-dna Project ( I used this as only a way to see a more accurate number, Hap maps were the main tool used), and referenced numerous articles on western France's genetic make up to corroborate the findings.

E1b1b1- Genforum.Geneaology.com/stafford/messages/5030.html, also looked at the Hap map on eupedia and used the Normandy Ydna project at Ftdna, although on participant tested for it, the percentage was still less than 1 percent.

J- Based findings off Hap maps, but also referenced the Normandy Y-dna project to try to find a more accurate number.

R1a_ Based findings off Hap maps, but also referenced the Normandy Y-dna project to try to find a more accurate number.

G- Hard to find articles/studies on G in Lower Normandy so there is a margin of error on this one, but i did not find any tangible evidence other than Hap Maps that show a >1 percent frequency in Normandy.

Other Comments: The Ftdna Normandy Y-dna project was not used solely for any findings, only as a reference to justify other claims. The reason i say this is that a few participants in the study may not have held Y lines back to Normandy, and most of the participants were immigrants and not people living in the region, but rather their descendents. Feel free to comment, critisize or offer any discussion on my findings.
 
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worked really hard to get this info, and I'm gettin no response, is anybody there, critique, congrats , disscussion, anything.
 
worked really hard to get this info, and I'm gettin no response, is anybody there, critique, congrats , disscussion, anything.

Nice work.

Though if there is nothing to argue about, it is doomed. This forum is beyond bad taste posts, but relies mostly on a healthy dose of arguing.

What seem to work the best, as seen in the past, is posting something controversial, or at least on the edge.

Try to add something like:

I do not think Hg X is native to the XYZ area (even if you are aware of its potential fallacy)

*More of a critique than an actual proposition
 
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Nice work.

Though if there is nothing to argue about, it is doomed. This forum is beyond bad taste posts, but relies mostly on a healthy dose of arguing.

What seem to work the best, as seen in the past, is posting something controversial, or at least on the edge.

Try to add something like:

I do not think Hg X is native to the XYZ area (even if you are aware of its potential fallacy)

Thanks for the reply, anyway i hear ya, figured that's why their wasn't any response, but with this i was trying to just put the straight facts out for everyone to see, and then maybe propose a theory or something. The discussion i was looking for, was on Hg I, and its incredibly high frequency, the site dosent really talk about L Normandy's genetic composition, and just for posterity haplogroup I is at 15 percent on average in France, also worthy for note is the lack of neolithic haplogroups like E,G and T. When you look at Lower Normandy from this stand point, it seems like a genetic island in France and i just wanted to see what peoples thoughts were on why its so different from its surroundings.
 
I think more complete data could slightly modifiy these results and show more M-E componants even if light, and also a bit more Y-R1a - Very often I 've the impression people jump very quickly to conclusions based on very slim data (and fight sometimes!)
 
Yep, point taken, Neolithic and R1a info was extremeley thin so feel free to take that info with a grain of salt, but i found alot of evidence to corroborate the two main HG's I and R1b, also this site has sources that agree with my findings on these two. Also, while researching this, i found that it is clearly evident that the Hap maps on this site and general, will give incorrect frequencies on Normandy, and just swash a certain color on it because of their lack of info on the area.
 
Alright so its been a few days since i posted this thread, and there hasn't been any reply, so i decided to take matters into my own hands and try to compile the most accurate frequency chart i could, with the available information on the web.

Lower NormandyR1b71%I24%(I1a)12%E1b1b10%J2%G1%R1a2%
Sources:
I- www.ncbi.nlm.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181996/. Also used Ftdna Normandy Y-dna project to reference these findings, Study was in 3 percent of what article stated....

This link isn't working for me. What is the title and author of this paper?

EDIT: Never mind. Found it.
[h=1]Phylogeography of Y-Chromosome Haplogroup I Reveals Distinct Domains of Prehistoric Gene Flow in Europe[/h]
 
7
This link isn't working for me. What is the title and author of this paper?

EDIT: Never mind. Found it.
Phylogeography of Y-Chromosome Haplogroup I Reveals Distinct Domains of Prehistoric Gene Flow in Europe
Thanks For Putting Up The Papers Name, I Shouldve Figured That The Link Was Dead. Also The I Frequency Can Also Be Justified By The Ftdna Normandy Y DNA Project, Percentage Is At 22 In This Study But Is Slightly Higher When You Discount Participants Who Obviouly Dont Hold Origins In Normandy, Example Being A Fellow Who Entered This Study With A Paternal Origin In Japan. Yep, Definetly Sounds French To Me, Lol.
 
Interesting, quite similar frequencies of what you'd expect in parts of western England. Although it'd be cool to find out what the R1b was - How much of it was U106/P312 etc.
 
Nice work on this Antro-- I saw it earlier but didn't comment because I was focused on another thread. I like that phrase "genetic island", very descriptive.
 
Interesting, quite similar frequencies of what you'd expect in parts of western England. Although it'd be cool to find out what the R1b was - How much of it was U106/P312 etc.
Yes, surely due in part to England's history with Normandy. As for the R1b percentages, most of my sources on R1b, show L21 as the dominant mutation in Normandy, And the Normandy Y-DNA project shows that 37% of Normandy falls into L21. While P321 is at only 7.5% and U106 also stands at 7.5%, however deepclade testing wasn't performed on many people, so these percentages can go up or down. This seems to counteract the high proportion of I, by showing little Scandinavian/Germanic R1b, but extremely high Norse I admixture. If these findings are true, it seems to suggest, that at the time of Viking expansion into Normandy, the Danish possessed much higher levels of HG I, possibly showing a frequency of >50%.

Also here is another study to support the HG I frequency
http://www.sturgood.com/dna/pdf/I1a_extract.pdf
 
Hmmm, had not heard of this project. Seems odd to exhume based on Norway vs. Denmark reasoning... maybe I'm missing something?
 
Hmmm, had not heard of this project. Seems odd to exhume based on Norway vs. Denmark reasoning... maybe I'm missing something?

Rollo's homeland - being the leader of the original Viking raiders/settlers in Normandy - has long been disputed. I'm no expert of the science, but by examining his Y DNA and that of his direct lineage (including the de Hautville line in Italy/Sicily), they say they will be able to determine whether he came from Denmark or Norway. My guess is Denmark. The markers will be fascinating to read.
 
Hmmm, had not heard of this project. Seems odd to exhume based on Norway vs. Denmark reasoning... maybe I'm missing something?
Sorry, I Should Have Given Some Back Story, Normandy Is Set Apart From France For The Extensive Raiders And Settlers Who Came During The First Milleniuem CE. The First Major Expansion During This Period, Would Have Been The Franks, Who Came From Germany And Brought Relativley High Frequencies Of HG I Mainly I1 And I2b. Now My Correlation With Denmark Comes From The Second Major A Wave Of Settlement Of Normandy, This Would Be The Vikings, Who Most Likley Came From Denmark Or Norway, This Is Thought To Be At Least Partially The Reason For Normandys High Frequency Of HG I1.
 
The Normans quickly became a complicated mix of haplotypes, given their propensity to morph into the host populations. The Normans in Italy and Sicily were an excellent example of this.
 
Yes, surely due in part to England's history with Normandy. As for the R1b percentages, most of my sources on R1b, show L21 as the dominant mutation in Normandy, And the Normandy Y-DNA project shows that 37% of Normandy falls into L21. While P321 is at only 7.5% and U106 also stands at 7.5%, however deepclade testing wasn't performed on many people, so these percentages can go up or down. This seems to counteract the high proportion of I, by showing little Scandinavian/Germanic R1b, but extremely high Norse I admixture. If these findings are true, it seems to suggest, that at the time of Viking expansion into Normandy, the Danish possessed much higher levels of HG I, possibly showing a frequency of >50%.

Also here is another study to support the HG I frequency
http://www.sturgood.com/dna/pdf/I1a_extract.pdf

This is with data from a couple of studies, although it looks like the pie chart over Normandy should be moved to the east of where it's placed now, that was just a score for northern France, as is the one next to it. I made the pie charts but not the map, and i keep forgetting that what looks like northern France to me is actually called north-west France by the French, seems strange to me but there we go. The south Wales sample is pretty unreliable btw, only 9 members:

EuropeBusby.jpg
 
This is with data from a couple of studies, although it looks like the pie chart over Normandy should be moved to the east of where it's placed now, that was just a score for northern France, as is the one next to it. I made the pie charts but not the map, and i keep forgetting that what looks like northern France to me is actually called north-west France by the French, seems strange to me but there we go. The south Wales sample is pretty unreliable btw, only 9 members:

EuropeBusby.jpg
Very nice, seems that I was right on L21 being the prodominant one. Could you provide a link to the study, again good job finding this.(y)
 

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