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Thread: New map of Haplogroup I (all subclades)

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.

    Post New map of Haplogroup I (all subclades)

    I have merged the maps of Y-haplogroups I1, I2a1 (former I2a) and I2a2 (former I2b). Here is what it looks like.

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Here is another version with the political borders.


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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    You can see a slightly larger version by right-clicking over the map and choosing 'View Image'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    You can see a slightly larger version by right-clicking over the map and choosing 'View Image'.
    just a question,
    how were these maps created? I see different shades on areas where I doubt there have been that many studies.

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    Banned nordicwarrior's Avatar
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    Nice work Maciamo. Really helps pull everything together.

    It looks like the Vandal's campaign into North Africa is now visible as well as the Norman's travel to Sicily. Plus it's interesting to see how widespread hg I is in Russia, even if it's only a light smattering. Very cool maps.

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    My island hideout theory holds up nicely with these maps. To avoid the onslaught of bronze weaponry and horse mounted fighters brought by early hg R, I've postulated that pockets of hg I sought the protection of Hvar, Sardinia, and the multitude of islands in the Bothian Gulf. I might be on to something.

    (I still think the Basque hg R arrived in boats though.)

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    Regular Member spruithean's Avatar
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    Nice maps!

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    Regular Member Templar's Avatar
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    Plus it's interesting to see how widespread hg I is in Russia, even if it's only a light smattering. Very cool maps.
    I guess it is makes sense considering the long viking presence there. Hmm, I wonder if the Communist revolution reduced haplogroup I significantly in Russia, since the nobles likely were HP I at a much higher rate.

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    Interesting concept Templar. I'm thinking Russian nobles (and really European too) started crowding hg I out of leadership roles long before the Communist Revolution though. The last ruling hg I family dates back to 13th century Sweden.

    P.S. Good to see you back in the threads Templar!

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    Ivan the Terrible was Hg N of the Rurik dynasty, was most responsible for Russia's huge expansion into Siberia.

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    What explains all that I in eastern Turkey, northern Iraq and Iran? Is it more likely to be some very ancient presence, or did Alexander's soldiers have a blast in that area (seeing as how "Macedonia" is shown to be 20-30% I in that map)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Degredado View Post
    What explains all that I in eastern Turkey, northern Iraq and Iran?
    I think it corresponds to Kurdish population.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I think it corresponds to Kurdish population.
    Yeah, that would make sense. Is there an explanation though, for the significant amount of I among Kurds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicfoyer View Post
    Nice work Maciamo. Really helps pull everything together.

    It looks like the Vandal's campaign into North Africa is now visible as well as the Norman's travel to Sicily. Plus it's interesting to see how widespread hg I is in Russia, even if it's only a light smattering. Very cool maps.
    You say so silly things. How is it possible to make conclusions about movements of people on the basis of a map made just for I haplo? We should at least have information about clades of I1 and I2 located in the certain territory and their TMRCA. All your dreams about Vandals with I haplo and vikings in Russia have nothing with reality. There were no vikings in Russia coz there's no haplos in Russia and Central and Eastern Europe with typical clades for Scandinavia. Folks with I1 and I2 clades in Russia of no douts came in Russia in two migration waves: first one - Fatyanovo people (migration from Southe Baltic region ~ 5200 bp), second wave - migration with R1a-z280 germanic people from Southe Baltic region in present day Russia (~1500 - 1300 bp).

    P.S. Association of Fatyanovo culture with R1a folks is a mistake since there are no so old clades of R1a in Fatyanovo culture zone. It could be only I1 folks which later mixed with baltic and finnic people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloomyGonzales View Post
    You say so silly things.
    I'm glad I keep you entertained, I aim to please!

    Now regarding the rest of your comment; if you read my comment carefully--I mentioned the Vandals' campaign in North Africa and the Normans' travel to Sicily. These are well documented facts. But you are correct in questioning my assertions that North Africa hg I can be directly linked to the Vandals-- it may very well be much, much older than that. I'd say most of North African hg I has an 80% chance of coming from Vandals. In Sicily, I'd put increased levels of hg I at 100% due to Norman influence though.

    I never said in my earlier comment that Russia had it's hg I due to Viking influence. The majority of Russian I is probably much older than Viking Age actually, BUT there were definitely Vikings pillaging Russian villages back in the day just like they did to the British Isles. If you don't think the Vikings made it into Russia, I'm sorry but I'm not even going to send links proving they did--this is basic history.

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    Banned nordicwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloomyGonzales View Post
    There were no vikings in Russia coz there's no haplos in Russia and Central and Eastern Europe with typical clades for Scandinavia.
    I beg to differ... I've found haplogroup I1 Z58+ Z140+ all the way DEEP into Siberia. There's also plenty of Ultra Norse (using K.N.'s terminology) in Russia. Please watch the BBC's three part special on Vikings-- this series talks in depth about the slave trade which is what pulled the Swedish Vikings (and probably some Danish too) Eastward.

    **EDIT** Three part series I mentioned is called "Vikings" and was hosted by Neil Oliver (Scottish archelogist) in 2012.
    Last edited by nordicwarrior; 15-02-13 at 05:37. Reason: added edit

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloomyGonzales View Post
    You say There were no vikings in Russia coz there's no haplos in Russia and Central and Eastern Europe with typical clades for Scandinavia.
    You have to be kidding...

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicfoyer View Post
    I beg to differ... I've found haplogroup I1 Z58+ Z140+ all the way DEEP into Siberia. There's also plenty of Ultra Norse (using K.N.'s terminology) in Russia. Please watch the BBC's three part special on Vikings-- this series talks in depth about the slave trade which is what pulled the Swedish Vikings (and probably some Danish too) Eastward.

    **EDIT** Three part series I mentioned is called "Vikings" and was hosted by Neil Oliver (Scottish archelogist) in 2012.
    Keep on entertaining me, man. I said that there's no Scandinavian clades in Russian and Central and Eastern Europe. "Scandinavian clades" means clades typical for Scandinavia while you tell me about clades typical fro Elba -Oder region of South Baltic.

    Here's the map for I1-z140 clades.

    http://foto.rambler.ru/photos/511dcf...-8076b0bedf5b/

    Which of these I1-z140 clades are Scandinavian and at the same time present in Central and Eastern Europe? Answer is none. As I said all I1 clades in Central and Easter Europe are from Elba-Oder region. There is only one exclusion it's Karelian clade but it has nothing to do with vikings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicfoyer View Post
    I'm glad I keep you entertained, I aim to please!

    Now regarding the rest of your comment; if you read my comment carefully--I mentioned the Vandals' campaign in North Africa and the Normans' travel to Sicily. These are well documented facts. But you are correct in questioning my assertions that North Africa hg I can be directly linked to the Vandals-- it may very well be much, much older than that. I'd say most of North African hg I has an 80% chance of coming from Vandals. In Sicily, I'd put increased levels of hg I at 100% due to Norman influence though.
    Once again to make any conclusions about connections bitween Vandals and Normans in Africa and Sicily we should have at least the following information:
    1) Presence of the specific clades of I1 or I2 in the region of interest ("specific" means clades that originated from the region of assumed migration, in this case clades of I1 and I2 from Central Europe and North Europe)
    2) Age of these I1 and I2 clades should correlate with the period of presumed migration.

    Taking into account the current information about distribution of I1 and I2 clades in Central and Western Europe the possibility that East Germanic tribes (Vandals, Goths and so on) were I1 or I2 folks is close to zero.


    Quote Originally Posted by nordicfoyer View Post
    I never said in my earlier comment that Russia had it's hg I due to Viking influence. The majority of Russian I is probably much older than Viking Age actually, BUT there were definitely Vikings pillaging Russian villages back in the day just like they did to the British Isles. If you don't think the Vikings made it into Russia, I'm sorry but I'm not even going to send links proving they did--this is basic history.
    Vikings never pillaged Russian villages (mabey only in your dreams), they pillaged South Baltic people while South Baltic people (they as well were called vikings since viking it's just way of living and making business) pillaged Sweden and Finland. If you do not know South Baltic vikings (Baltic people) burned down Sweden capitol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    You have to be kidding...
    Could you share with me and other guys from this forum information about Scandianvian clades present in Russia (I mean territory of ancient Russia), Belarus and Ukrain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloomyGonzales View Post
    Once again to make any conclusions about connections bitween Vandals and Normans in Africa and Sicily we should have at least the following information:
    1) Presence of the specific clades of I1 or I2 in the region of interest ("specific" means clades that originated from the region of assumed migration, in this case clades of I1 and I2 from Central Europe and North Europe)
    2) Age of these I1 and I2 clades should correlate with the period of presumed migration.

    Taking into account the current information about distribution of I1 and I2 clades in Central and Western Europe the possibility that East Germanic tribes (Vandals, Goths and so on) were I1 or I2 folks is close to zero.
    Why are you assuming the vandals and goths are I ? ......in the main.

    Vandals and Goths are continental R1a markers with other markers tagging along, they did pick up some I though in Scandinavia, but most of the I was absorbed from the steppes.

    R1a Scandinavia is not what the goths had, its different plus goths spoke gothic, Scandinavian "goths" speak gutnish. If Goths originated in scandinavia they would have been speaking gutnish all the time.

    Also I marker was already present north of the black sea and in Crimea before the Goths arrived

    Gothic people were of the Aestian (Lithuanian—Latvian and Old Prussian) origin

    Elattova de eunh vemetai Saomatian, paoa men ton Ouistoulan potamon. Upo touj Ouenedaj, Guuwnej. Eita Finnoi.
    The less significant people abide in Sarmatia, near the mouth of the Vistula river. Beyond the Venedi are Guthones. Then the Finns.
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloomyGonzales View Post
    Where did you get that Rus were vikings? All guys claming Rurukid ancestry have clades typical for South Baltic region. It looks like that folks from South Baltic occupied territories of Southern Scandinavia. I guess they were Lords of Scandinavian folks (myths of Asir gods from Eastern Europe become true.)

    Here's map of R1a and N1c caldes from South Baltic region:
    http://foto.rambler.ru/photos/511dff...-78ba339b47af/




    The problem is that we have no typical Scandinavian clades not only in Poland and Ukraine but as well in Balkans, Italy and Spain (all places where East Germanic people settled) but at the same time we have traces of migration of some R1a-Z280 clades from South Baltic region to Ukraine, Balkans, Italy and Spain. And do not forget that Goths have not been the only East Germanic tribe and these tribes were numerous enough to destroy Roman Imperia.
    isn't z280 claimed to be the ancient Lugii confederation tribes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Why are you assuming the vandals and goths are I ? ......in the main.
    It's not me. I'm of completely different opinion. It's a guy from USA several posts above made so incredible smart conclusion on the basis of a map for I haplos. So I tried to make him think in a kinda genealogical way of thinking.))

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloomyGonzales View Post
    It's not me. I'm of completely different opinion. It's a guy from USA several posts above made so incredible smart conclusion on the basis of a map for I haplos. So I tried to make him think in a kinda genealogical way of thinking.))
    oops sorry, you are correct

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    isn't z280 claimed to be the ancient Lugii confederation tribes?
    In my opinion it's a number 1 candidated for this culture but surely not all clades of R1a-Z280 but only CTS1211+ CTS3402.

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