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  1. #1
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
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    World control factor in our spirituality

    WORLD CONTROL FACTOR IN OUR SPIRITUALITY

    I came to the conclusion that our projection ability of self onto environment has much to do with our spirituality, or at least a part of larger phenomena. Here is what I mean:

    We control our close space and most things from surroundings. We can make fire, control tools, chop trees, kill animals, etc. Tools are controlled and actions done on purpose with purpose. But there are also some things we can’t control, like sickness, accidents, thunders, rain, sun rising and setting, etc. These days we know how most things work, but our ancestors not having our knowledge explained them in only for them known terms. They extrapolated their abilities of controlling things on small scale, onto someone (powerful conscious being) who controls the rest of known world and do all for a purpose.

    I’m not sure why they needed to explain everything they didn't know, and just let it be (unknown)? Maybe someone asked a question: Why my wife died? Why thunder hit my house? Why bad things happen always to me? Why do I suffer all the time?...and someone felt like explaining.

    Maybe the world became less scared and strange place to them when someone came up with answers, that things happen for a reason, done by gods or spirits, to lead us through life. Suddenly all world is not a wild place but controlled for a reason. Someone make the sun and moon rise, controls thunders to punish bad people, takes wife away to a better place in heaven, and our suffering is noted and rewarded in afterlife.
    The way we control our environment, some conscious beings control the rest that we don’t. No wonder that with this way of thinking the first pantheons of gods were human like and behaved like humans, in good and bad ways. Even though current religions evolved to no-body omnipotent god, he still has human character and feelings.

    The bottom line is that everything, and I mean everything, is controlled. Obviously it gives most of us a cozy nice feeling knowing that. It works, like a positive loop effect amplifying our spirituality. The more control and orderly our environment is, the more pleasant it feels. The more pleasant it feels, the easier it is to believe in supernatural. Maybe we just really like to know everything?

    What makes it more interesting is that, our self-extrapolation of control is not really limited to realm of religion. We find it in our everyday lives. We explain coincidences as fate and life as destiny, we have superstitions on every occasion, we use conspiracy theories in politics and economy, etc. Why? Because, otherwise it all doesn't make sense and if it doesn't make sense we feel terrible. Someone simply has to be in control of everything, period.

    So folks, who controls the world? ;)
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  2. #2
    Elite member hope's Avatar
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    I suppose humans in general have always sought to understand their environment.
    It is in our nature to be curious and seek answers, we do not tend to observe something and allow it to remain unknown.
    As you say, our ancestors likewise sought to answer questions based on the knowledge of their time. Thus it is not so hard to imagine how they believed God or gods were in control. Those gods were to be respected and appeased.
    In the age of "ancestor worship" where we sought the souls of the dead to intervene for us and moved to the age of "cosmology" when our knowledge of the world was to a degree increasing, gods were still totally prominent. Could it be we are pre-wired to believe in the spiritual just as we are pre-wired to learn language? But then how might we explain non-believers. Is there actually such a thing as a non-beliver, doesn`t every-one believe in something, even if it be their conviction of non-belief?


    "Who Controls the World?"

    You don`t believe in asking small questions LeBrok, do you...:)

    I think there would be many different answers to that, depending on who you asked. Eg: Those who believe in God {by whatever name they call Him} will not hesitate to say the world and all in it is Gods and He controls it.
    A person of science , may say we can with our greater knowledge and capabilities now have some control over the planet.
    A non-believer would probably say no-one controls the world, it is as it is.
    Other people might say those in power have the greatest control, the law makers.
    Philosophy students, well depending on what school of thought they are from could give several answers, probably to the effect we ourselves are in control of ourselves and our actions effect the actions of others etc etc { my brief summary and perhaps not totally accurate}
    In summary perhaps our ancestors were more in agreement with one another on who controlled the world than we to-day with our evolved knowledge and understanding are.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    Could it be we are pre-wired to believe in the spiritual just as we are pre-wired to learn language? But then how might we explain non-believers. Is there actually such a thing as a non-beliver, doesn`t every-one believe in something, even if it be their conviction of non-belief?
    Let me tell you about my spirituality. Every time I'm watching a movie about ghosts, or see ordinary things, like books, flying in the air with supposed supernatural force (as magic), I will get shivers down my spine every time it happens. It is so automatic and sudden that it is beyond my conscious control. If I didn't know any better I would claim feeling presence of this magical force.
    How do I explain this?
    Not believing in ghosts, I explain my spirituality feeling with "God" gene planted in my DNA by natural selection. Meaning that it was beneficial for our species. If it is not match beneficial now, it was beneficial some time ago, before technological revolution.
    To be honest, my last two sentences are based only on my beliefs (no strong proof of spiritual gene yet). So is every hypothesis, and scientific minds imagining/believing in different outcomes to explain unknown. Recently I watched few biographies of top scientists, and it turned that they had very obvious commonality; very open minds and believing in every possible outcome, till the problem is researched and proved true or false.
    Probably the main difference between people is that some people analyze and test their beliefs, and some (big majority) takes them at face value, from parents, teachers, gurus, or even scientists.

    So, your're right, technical everybody is a believer, just not everybody believes in god(s).


    In summary perhaps our ancestors were more in agreement with one another on who controlled the world than we to-day with our evolved knowledge and understanding are.
    I believe so, there is more harmony and unity in a group of one religion, one language, one culture/same ideas. I guess you know that, you're from N. Ireland.
    It was more true for small tribes (to stick together) than in situation of big nations, I guess. We have examples of many very strong multicultural nations in recent past. I might be wrong here though, just on a ground that we can't have a big country these days without encompassing many cultures and languages.

  4. #4
    Elite member hope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post



    I believe so, there is more harmony and unity in a group of one religion, one language, one culture/same ideas.

    Yes, I think that is correct LeBrok, for our ancestors a shared belief system and set of ideas would have been beneficial to the group. It would have served to give cohesion and a feeling of security.

    In the 18th and 19th centuries within the many different groups arriving in America this was very obvious with each ethnic group staying close to each other..security within a group of similar background and culture.

    Even to-day for the most part I think this still applies within groups. I suppose it is the old story of people wanting to identify with and belong to a group as much like themselves as possible.
    Of course with this may come the possibility of limited exchange of ideas or a true understanding of differing beliefs or cultures.


    LOL: Horror movies.. I can`t watch them LeBrok!

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    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    Yes, I think that is correct LeBrok, for our ancestors a shared belief system and set of ideas would have been beneficial to the group. It would have served to give cohesion and a feeling of security.
    Not mentioning fewer civil and religion wars. In times of plenty people get alone. In times of economic downturns people quickly blame other groups for their misfortunes.

    LOL: Horror movies.. I can`t watch them LeBrok!
    I hate horrors too. I find them more disgusting than scary. The scariest movies for me are about psychopaths, because this is real human condition, and can apply in real life. I don't watch them much either, just enough to understand how it works. This spiritual goose bumps effect, I can get just from watching ordinary movies with some magical elements. It is not a scary feeling, more of surprise to see something of profound nature. I would get the same feeling if I opened the door and found Prime Minister of Canada on my doorstep, lol, or someone looking and acting like Jesus. However, I can't confirm my supposition from last sentence, because it never happened. :)

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    Pigmon/Pygmon/Pimond Pi gman's Avatar
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    Follow the money.

    "The Bilderburgers"

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    WORLD CONTROL FACTOR IN OUR SPIRITUALITY

    I came to the conclusion that our projection ability of self onto environment has much to do with our spirituality, or at least a part of larger phenomena. Here is what I mean:

    We control our close space and most things from surroundings. We can make fire, control tools, chop trees, kill animals, etc. Tools are controlled and actions done on purpose with purpose. But there are also some things we can’t control, like sickness, accidents, thunders, rain, sun rising and setting, etc. These days we know how most things work, but our ancestors not having our knowledge explained them in only for them known terms. They extrapolated their abilities of controlling things on small scale, onto someone (powerful conscious being) who controls the rest of known world and do all for a purpose.

    I’m not sure why they needed to explain everything they didn't know, and just let it be (unknown)? Maybe someone asked a question: Why my wife died? Why thunder hit my house? Why bad things happen always to me? Why do I suffer all the time?...and someone felt like explaining.

    Maybe the world became less scared and strange place to them when someone came up with answers, that things happen for a reason, done by gods or spirits, to lead us through life. Suddenly all world is not a wild place but controlled for a reason. Someone make the sun and moon rise, controls thunders to punish bad people, takes wife away to a better place in heaven, and our suffering is noted and rewarded in afterlife.
    The way we control our environment, some conscious beings control the rest that we don’t. No wonder that with this way of thinking the first pantheons of gods were human like and behaved like humans, in good and bad ways. Even though current religions evolved to no-body omnipotent god, he still has human character and feelings.

    The bottom line is that everything, and I mean everything, is controlled. Obviously it gives most of us a cozy nice feeling knowing that. It works, like a positive loop effect amplifying our spirituality. The more control and orderly our environment is, the more pleasant it feels. The more pleasant it feels, the easier it is to believe in supernatural. Maybe we just really like to know everything?

    What makes it more interesting is that, our self-extrapolation of control is not really limited to realm of religion. We find it in our everyday lives. We explain coincidences as fate and life as destiny, we have superstitions on every occasion, we use conspiracy theories in politics and economy, etc. Why? Because, otherwise it all doesn't make sense and if it doesn't make sense we feel terrible. Someone simply has to be in control of everything, period.

    So folks, who controls the world? ;)

  7. #7
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pi gman View Post
    Follow the money.

    "The Bilderburgers"
    When I follow the money it turns that, instead one strong group controlling everything, there are many centers with different interests. American interest, British, Chinese, Russians, Indians, Jews etc, etc Plus there are banks alliances to work with governments, against them or just purely for their own benefits, like rigging inter-bank interest rate. I would say there are money gives the power position to influence our lives in many ways, but there is no one really controlling everything on global scale. The biggest power control exist in dictatorship countries like N. Korea, Cuba, or Venezuela, down to free speech control. Venezuela is an interesting example how "people's" president can easily nationalize powerful oil companies and banks. We can easily scratch worlds biggest oil company Exxon Mobil from list of influential power centers. Even US was trying to influence Pakistan in fight against terrorism paying them billions every year. At the end of a day they needed to go themselves in to catch Osama, who by accounts of Pakistan officials, didn't live there.
    I'm not saying that money doesn't control things, it does, but in very messed up way, very decentralized, and often defies logic.

    In most cases control is a mirage, people think that government controls them and government thinks it controls people. Belgium recently showed us that a country can exist without a government for at least good couple of years, and nothing bad happens during this time. Good system is often overlooked, but in reality, once in place, system can run things by itself. In good economic and political systems people can work, raise families, have fun, and live in good conditions without government or other power centers controlling them.

    Can people believe in it? No control, just good systems in place.

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