K36 K36 from Eurogenes

[Tomenable]

Angela,

As for Eurogenes K36, here is where "Italian" admixture peaks (map made by Aha):

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11965-K36-Unified-Map-of-Elements&p=285698

 

[Angela]

Angela, As for Eurogenes K36, here is where "Italian" admixture peaks (map made by Aha):http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11965-K36-Unified-Map-of-Elements&p=285698

It speaks for itself. Most of these "peak" areas are nowhere near where the "names" would indicate. Just take a look at where Eastern European peaks, or Central Euro, or even East Central Euro, which is actually Latvia. Brittany is a good stand in for all of France? For goodness sakes', the academic sample is Lyon. Central Europe is now, what? Poland???I think I was right not to pay any attention to it.

 

[davef]

It speaks for itself. Most of these "peak" areas are nowhere near where the "names" would indicate. Just take a look at where Eastern European peaks, or Central Euro, or even East Central Euro, which is actually Latvia. Brittany is a good stand in for all of France? For goodness sakes', the academic sample is Lyon. Central Europe is now, what? Poland???I think I was right not to pay any attention to it.

AND THE NEAR EASTERN CATEGORY COVERS NORTHEASTERN EGYPT!!!???

.....and would we expect "French" to be that much different from "North Atlantic"?

Why do we even have a "French" component? I really don't see the point.

 

[Pratt]

AND THE NEAR EASTERN CATEGORY COVERS NORTHEASTERN EGYPT!!!???

.....and would we expect "French" to be that much different from "North Atlantic"?

Why do we even have a "French" component? I really don't see the point.

To the best of my knowledge, Near Eastern component is based on Jordanians, Lebanese Muslims, Syrians and Palestinians.
French is based on a French sample of people from Central France.

 

[Angela]

To my knowledge there are only two French samples available...one is from Lyon, and one is from south-western France, somewhere south of Bordeaux I believe. Neither is in central France, much less anywhere near Brittany, which is much more "Celtic" and like Devon and Cornwall in England. There is a cline in France, as there is in Germany, although in neither country is it as pronounced as in Italy.

Latvia is Northeastern Europe, is it not, not east central Europe, which should be Poland?

If Near East is around Syria, why is it peaking in Egypt?
I'm sorry, but in my opinion, the whole thing is absurd.

 

[davef]

To my knowledge there are only two French samples available...one is from Lyon, and one is from south-western France, somewhere south of Bordeaux I believe. Neither is in central France, much less anywhere near Brittany, which is much more "Celtic" and like Devon and Cornwall in England. There is a cline in France, as there is in Germany, although in neither country is it as pronounced as in Italy.

Latvia is Northeastern Europe, is it not, not east central Europe, which should be Poland?

If Near East is around Syria, why is it peaking in Egypt?
I'm sorry, but in my opinion, the whole thing is absurd.

I guess I can see why they have a category for "Italian" "Iberian" "Wed Med" (I guess it's some sort of way of measuring Neolithic DNA) or "east central euro" or other eastern euro regions (which probably measures hunter gatherer) but what makes the French component relevant?

 

[ROS]

It is what happens when you label the autosomic DNA that the hand can go to you side to side.

 

[Pratt]

To my knowledge there are only two French samples available...one is from Lyon, and one is from south-western France, somewhere south of Bordeaux I believe. Neither is in central France, much less anywhere near Brittany, which is much more "Celtic" and like Devon and Cornwall in England. There is a cline in France, as there is in Germany, although in neither country is it as pronounced as in Italy.

Latvia is Northeastern Europe, is it not, not east central Europe, which should be Poland?

If Near East is around Syria, why is it peaking in Egypt?
I'm sorry, but in my opinion, the whole thing is absurd.

Me too, I don't find K36 particularly accurate either.

There is a txt file with all the K36 reference samples.

The reference sample for the French component (the one from Lyon?)

French French_HGDP00511 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00512 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00513 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00514 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00515 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00516 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00517 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00518 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00519 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00520 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00521 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00522 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00523 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00524 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00525 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00526 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00527 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00528 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00529 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00530 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00531 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00533 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00534 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00535 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00536 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00537 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00538 0 0 0 -9
French French_HGDP00539 0 0 0 -9


The reference sample for the East_Central_European component

East_Central_European Belarusian_belorus1 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Belarusian_belorus3 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Belarusian_belorus4 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Belarusian_belorus5 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Belarusian_belorus6 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Belarusian_belorus7 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Belarusian_belorus8 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Lithuanian_GSM536635 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Lithuanian_GSM536636 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Lithuanian_GSM536637 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Lithuanian_GSM536638 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Lithuanian_GSM536639 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Lithuanian_GSM536640 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Lithuanian_GSM536641 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Lithuanian_GSM536642 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Lithuanian_GSM536643 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Lithuanian_GSM536644 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Russian_RU21 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Russian_RU22 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_North_UkrainePol19Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_North_UkrainePol25Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Northeast_UkrBel614Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Northeast_UkrBel618Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Northeast_UkrBel620Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Northeast_UkrBel622Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Northeast_UkrBel733Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Northeast_UkrBel736Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Ukraine130Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Ukraine133Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Ukraine136Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Ukraine141Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Ukraine94Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_Ukraine97Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_West_UkrLv215Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_West_UkrLv223Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_West_UkrLv226Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_West_UkrLv228Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_West_UkrLv237Y 0 0 0 -9
East_Central_European Ukrainian_West_UkrLv240Y 0 0 0 -9

 

[Pratt]

I guess I can see why they have a category for "Italian" "Iberian" "Wed Med" (I guess it's some sort of way of measuring Neolithic DNA) or "east central euro" or other eastern euro regions (which probably measures hunter gatherer) but what makes the French component relevant?

For Italian: Bergamo + Tuscans. For Iberian: all the Iberian samples; for West Med: Sardinians.

 

[davef]

The French component being from Lyon makes this even more interesting. I google mapped Lyon France (yeah, my geography needs polishing) and it's close to North Italy....and it peaks in northwest France near England.
:/

 

[Pratt]

The French component being from Lyon makes this even more interesting. I google mapped Lyon France (yeah, my geography needs polishing) and it's close to North Italy....and it peaks in northwest France near England.

:/

I don't know if they are from Lyon. But even French have very low percentages of French component. French usually have more Iberian and Italian than French. FR_Bretagne has slightly more "French" than other French. That K36 map made by Aha can be deceptive, especially in this case.

In bold where Iberian, Italian and French components peak among French. It lacks a France East average.


France 7.18 (French), 21.202 (Iberian), 15.565 (Italian)
France_Central 8.198 (French), 19.448 (Iberian) 18.194 (Italian)
FR_Bretagne 10.112 (French), 19.354 (Iberian), 9.046 (Italian)
France_South 6.535 (French), 22.35 (Iberian), 17.208 (Italian)
France_SoutWestern, 4.893 (French), 31.566 (Iberian), 9.282 (Italian)
France_NorthEast 6.48 (French), 17.13 (Iberian), 14.05 (Italian)
France_NorthWest 7.308 (French), 16.78 (Iberian), 13.125 (Italian)


Reference samples for Italian component (North Italian is Italian Bergamo, the Tuscans are the overwhelming majority in the Italian sample)

Italian North_Italian_HGDP01147 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01151 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01152 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01153 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01154 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01155 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01156 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01157 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01171 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01172 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01173 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01174 0 0 0 -9
Italian North_Italian_HGDP01177 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_HGDP01161 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_HGDP01162 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_HGDP01163 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_HGDP01164 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_HGDP01166 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_HGDP01167 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_HGDP01168 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_HGDP01169 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20502 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20504 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20505 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20506 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20508 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20509 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20510 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20517 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20519 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20520 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20521 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20522 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20524 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20525 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20527 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20528 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20529 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20530 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20534 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20535 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20538 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20539 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20540 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20541 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20542 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20543 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20544 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20581 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20582 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20586 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20588 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20589 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20752 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20753 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20754 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20755 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20756 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20757 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20758 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20759 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20760 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20761 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20765 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20766 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20768 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20770 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20771 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20772 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20773 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20774 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20775 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20778 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20783 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20785 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20787 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20790 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20792 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20795 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20796 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20797 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20799 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20800 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20802 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20803 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20804 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20805 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20806 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20807 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20808 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20809 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20810 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20811 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20812 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20813 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20815 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20816 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20818 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20819 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20826 0 0 0 -9
Italian Tuscan_NA20828 0 0 0 -9

 

[Jovialis]

Hmmm, I wonder how I would score on that thing.

Let's see...


200% SSA
50% Arabic
-428% Italian
Googolplex% Jewish
72% North African
1% Eastern Central Europe Western Puerto Rican

 

[Angela]

So, it has all the reference samples for the two areas between which I usually score (Bergamo and Hap Map or near Firenze in Toscana), and all my ancestors for about 800 and probably closer to 1000 years are from the area where the "Italian" component supposedly peaks going by the map, and yet I score only 22% Italian?

How is this supposed to be useful?

 

[Pratt]

So, it has all the reference samples for the two areas between which I usually score (Bergamo and Hap Map or near Firenze in Toscana), and all my ancestors for about 800 and probably closer to 1000 years are from the area where the "Italian" component supposedly peaks going by the map, and yet I score only 22% Italian?

How is this supposed to be useful?

I have great doubts about the theoretical framework behind the K36, I have the feeling that all the samples available were used and then the components were created. But 22% is quite a normal score for both Tuscans and Bergamasks. Lombards, Emilians, Ligurians usually score around 24/25% as average. Tuscans slightly more (26% on average), but there is a large individual variability. There are some Tuscans who score 20% and some Lombards who score 30%.

These are the averages from a spreadsheet done on anthrogenica.

IT_Tuscany 26.351
IT_North 24.70.
Swiss_Italian 24.52
IT_Lazio 24.22
IT_Abruzzo 24.12
IT_Campania 23.02
IT_Sardinia 23.00
IT_Marche 22.94
IT_Apulia 22.22
IT_Aosta 21.64
IT_Calabria 21.48
IT_Piedmont 20.76
IT_Veneto 20.45
IT_Friuli 19.835

Sicily

Sicily_Ragusa 21.46
Sicily_Trapani 21.365
Sicily_Catania 21.195
Sicily_Messina 19.68
Sicily_Caltanisetta 19.05

 

[Angela]

Ok, I misremembered. I get about 24% for "Italian", and about 19% for Iberian. Still makes no sense, imo, but to each their own.

 

[LeBrok]

It speaks for itself. Most of these "peak" areas are nowhere near where the "names" would indicate. Just take a look at where Eastern European peaks, or Central Euro, or even East Central Euro, which is actually Latvia. Brittany is a good stand in for all of France? For goodness sakes', the academic sample is Lyon. Central Europe is now, what? Poland???I think I was right not to pay any attention to it.

Technically, it is in geographical center of Europe by some measures and very close according to others. Europe goes way to Ural mountains. Vast Russian European part skews proportions, I guess.

 

[davef]

Hmmm, I wonder how I would score on that thing.
Let's see...
200% SSA
50% Arabic
-428% Italian
Googolplex% Jewish
72% North African
1% Eastern Central Europe Western Puerto Rican

HERES MINR
Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 30
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 20
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -
Flying Chipmunk 2
Indo European 48
100 percent Übermenschen

Can someone help plz? I don't get reslts, y I socre indo eurpoen ?

 

[davef]

Here's what I got in 23 and me's Nordic or Not test:

50 % Norse Conqueror 50 % Indo European Steppe Invador

100 % Übermenschen 0 % Non-Übermenschen

If Angela can help me understand my scores, that'll be great

 

[Constantine]

I score more Italian that some Italians I've seen (21% if I remember right) and I'm Peloponnesian with some Arvanite ancestry. Tuscan is usually at or near the top on Oracle-type stuff, like a lot of Greeks I've seen.

 

[Dibran]

I score more Italian that some Italians I've seen (21% if I remember right) and I'm Peloponnesian with some Arvanite ancestry. Tuscan is usually at or near the top on Oracle-type stuff, like a lot of Greeks I've seen.

Same with me(I am Albanian). Interestingly mine, and my fathers Italian component is extremely atypical. I don't think its particularly Italian but some type of central med component. I get 32 percent IT almost, and my father is almost 35 percent. It gives us a huge shift towards Tuscan which is usually in the top 3 with Albanian or Greek in some order or other.