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Father's Mtdna H95a1
Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
Mother's YDna R1a-Z282
ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ
When there is no shame
Divine blindness conquers them
Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
Nemesis and punishment follows.
Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.
That actually made me laugh out loud, no joke!
Please do try to remember my oddball theory though. In five years or so, the focus of DNA will shift to it's interrelatedness. There is no such thing as "junk DNA"-- it all has a function and purpose.
Plus when you consider the fact that mtdna effects the main power plant in every cell in the body... of course a mutation in this area will have far reaching impact throughout the entire organism.
Back to the thread though, Yetos tell us more about these Severi from Ucraine. Byzantine sources would have validity because of their age... much closer in time to the actual population shifts.
I never said that I2a was slavic. I said that there was significant gene flow of I2a from South Croatia (Dalmatia/Hercegovina) and Bosnia to North/East/West Croatia. Without this gene flow we would be looking at much lower I2a frequencies in the north. Of course I believe I2a is old in the Balkans, preceding Illyrians.
1) I2a was found in a high percent of pre-roman venetians.
2) I don't believe any variance models based on frequency topography because they exclude geographic barriers to gene flow making the whole premise erroneous.
3) The parts of Croatia with the highest I2a are geographically isolated from gene flow making the slavic invasion hypothesis extremely unlikely.
4) Ken N's claim of Y dating based on a model, and all models are prone to errors of input and of the model itself.
there is another who rivals Ken N , Terry Robb. His data is below, from full migrational routes , including barbarian invasions, to I1 and I2 as well as all the geno 2.0 results
http://www.goggo.com/terry/Haplogrou...Migrations.pdf
http://www.goggo.com/terry/Haplogrou...R_Branches.pdf
http://www.goggo.com/terry/HaplogroupI1/
there is even a spot where you can enter your ftdna kit number ( only if your are from the I family ) to reveal new data
No, Dinarics are a mix of Paleolithic Europeans (Cro-Magnons) and Near-Eastern migrants (probably Armenoids). Indo-Europeans had Alpine-like characteristics such as having a wide but short face.Dinarics are an Alpino-Med blend according to Coon.
There are still many un-mixed relatively "pure" Cro-Magnons in Herzegovina. My father's side of the family are all over 6'2 for males and over 5'7 for women. And they aren't frail like the stereotypical Dinaric, they have extremely wide/thick bones (especially the legs) and pack on muscle as if they are on steroids.
Several anthropologists have suggested it. Plus there is a lot of evidence for it. Western Balkans have the highest rates of haplogroup I (the Cro-Magnon Y haplogroup), the people are the tallest in Europe, have features which fit with how paleolithic Europeans are thought to have looked, etc. There are many similarities between "Nordics" and Dinarics. And most agree that "Nordics" have a considerable amount of Paleolithic ancestry. The only big difference between them is coloring, but that can be attributed to Indo-European admixture in the case of Nordics and near-eastern admixture in the case of Dinarics.
There is no single evidence that I2a is Paleolithic or Mesolithic in origin. We have to wait for aDNA to conclude that. Everything else said is just bollocks. Besides that, how many times we have discussed that I2a among Yugoslavians is exclusively I2a1b1 which is only 2500-2000 years old. It has absolutely nothing to do with Illyrians.
Not really, I claimed that I2a was a major element of the Illyrian population (the others being E, J1, J2, and other haplogroups that came during the neolithic, and small amounts of r1b and r1a).On previous threads you have claimed jugoslav I2a to be illyrian; following your logic with what you're saying now, illyrians are paleolithic in the balkans.
Do not even argue with Albanians. They will hijack any thread to talk about their made up Illyrian history. This pathetic behavior seems more commom in Albanian youth, as i've met some very nice Albanian elderly who do not exhibit the stupidity that their youth do.
The Albanians use 2500yo haplogroup dating based on Ken N's model.
Ken N's model was also used to date E-V13 in the Balkans. Albanians tested as the most recent migrants at 250AD-500AD. Thus if the Albanians here want to claim that Balkan I2a is recent using Ken N's model, they must also be ready to accept that their own population dates to 500AD using the same exact model.
dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/07/expansion-of-e-v13-explained.html
That's not Ken N's model being used, that's dienekes, the greek owner of the blog giving his amateur 2 cents on the matter (and pretty bias 2 cents). The slav migration in the balkans that formed the jugoslav genesis, happened in the middle ages and has been documented, any serious historian outside of ex-jugoslavia is not going to dispute that.
Not even the greeks support you guys on jugoslav I2a being that old, because that would mean the Macedonian slavs were the first inhabitants of greece (they don't even want Macedonia to even be called Macedonia anymore, because it's inhabited by slavs).
Nordvedt is probably the best person on earth to have studied Y-DNA I branches so it would make him pretty reliable.
E-V13 has never been studied by Nordvedt, according to last Bulgarian paper E-V13 could even be Mesolithic into Balkans so i don't know where are all your theories coming.
Yes, it is Ken N's model being used. Do you even know what a model is? You input data, and it gives you an output of information based on premises. It's not Ken N's data, it is Ken N's model. Are you arguing that the data used by Dienekes is an inaccurate representation of Balkan E-V13? If so, please provide evidence to support your assertions.
I see that the Albanians will use Ken N's model to support their hypothesis, but reject Ken N's model when it says that Albanian E-V13 originated from 500AD. I have no doubt that E-V13 Albanians, and especially E-V13 Albanians in Kosovo are a product of a founder effect that is rather recent and the date of 500AD seems very likely for the founder. Anyone with any knowledge of evolutionary genetics would infer from the E-V13 frequency contours of Kosovo and surrounding areas that that population is a product of a recent founder effect.
@Kamani
Leave Greeks alone,
don't mix them with your 'theories' which are just propaganda pappers.
and especially Dienekes who is searching autosomal admixtures,
Dienekes is searching, you are just want to make propaganda.
I am proud of Dienekes being Greek, cause his blog has a good scientific lvl, which you do not have, and true or false he is using scientific methods,
Look up threads in this forum about E-v13, they're full of links that put in the Neolithic. So it is neolithic everywhere in the balkans, excepts in tiny kosovo, where it is supposed to be 250 AD, nevermind that the highest density is in kosovo and the distribution maps show its epicenter over there! That dienekes link is just some anonimous dude in 2008, in his spare time playing with the Ken Nordtvedt's Generations2 program, choosing his own input. That's not a serious published study.
Last edited by kamani; 17-03-13 at 21:24.