Large-scale new study of Croatian Y-DNA

[kamani]

@Kamani

Leave Greeks alone,
don't mix them with your 'theories' which are just propaganda pappers.
and especially Dienekes who is searching autosomal admixtures,

Dienekes is searching, you are just want to make propaganda.

then let me ask you a question. Why don't greeks want Macedonia to be called Macedonia?

[Yetos]

Look up threads in this forum about E-v13, they're full of links that put in the Neolithic. So it is neolithic everywhere in the balkans, excepts in tiny kosovo, where it is supposed to be 250 AD, nevermind that the highest density is in kosovo and the distribution maps show its epicenter over there. That dienekes link is just some anonimous dude in 2008, in his spare time playing with the Ken Nordtvedt's Generations2 program, choosing his own input. That's not a serious published study.

better look again threads in the forum,
half posts say that is not neolithic but about 2000 BC and many other others say earlier,
If I remember correct Battaglia also claims that in bronze maritime entrance
why you want to create impressions?
it is not only Nortvedt, but also many others, who say that is maritime, not neolithic, copper or bronze age,

you still claim that gennetic laws are just like liquid fluid laws,
that from high density spreads around,
but genetical laws say that from high diversity we know the age and starting point, which until today surely is not Kossovo but Greece at 1rst and Bosnia at 2nd

besides no matter the scientific claims, archaiology in balkans say no ancient E-V13, but in minor asia around 2000 BC,
now if you claim Iberian Neolithic E, then why you don't claim Ethiopean which is closer and older, Paleolithic.

how would like if I say that E-V13 is paleolithic since it is older in Cyprus which is more closer than Iberia?

maybe Cypriots with heavy E-V13 are from kossovo high peak?
or they are Arbanites as you claim in another post about the high peaks of E-v13 in Greece? making Arbanites 2 millions in Greece, while by their own clubs stats are only 150 000.

you think according propaganda, not according science.

[james stock]

I'm glad you agreed with me that the model used to produce a 2500yo estimate for I2a also produced a 1500yo estimate (500AD) for Albanian E-V13. You seem to accept the accuracy of this model, based on your reliance on it for dating I2a.

I don't make statements of fact and I pointed out earlier, in this thread, that I do not trust Ken N's model. The issue here is that you make a statement of fact that I2a is 2500yo, based on Ken N's model, and reject that Albanian E-V13 is 1500yo (500AD), based on the same model. If you accept the model, you must first prove that the input data is either acceptable or unacceptable. You have not proven that Ken N's model is accurate. You have not proven the data used to date I2a is accurate. You have not proven the data used to date E-V13 is inaccurate. Therefore we are left in a situation where it seems that you reject Dieneke's data solely because it does not comply with, as Yetos pointed out, Albanian propaganda.

I'm not sure what your intentions are but if you cannot use a model when it suits you, and dismiss it when it doesn't, without people questioning your intentions. It's not the end of the world if Albanian E-V13 is from 500AD and E-V13 Albanians had nothing to do with Illyria. Propaganda only makes you, and the people you represent, look foolish.

[kamani]

@yetos
we've argued all that before, I disagree and if you want to know my take on it, look at the threads about E v-13 (I'm not going to destroy this thread with large posts about something non-related). Why don't you answer the question about Macedonia? Or at least if you don't want to answer that, answer how old is Macedonian I2a in the balkans?

[kamani]

I'm glad you agreed with me that the model used to produce a 2500yo estimate for I2a ...

I did not agree with anything, read carefully, I said dienekes is an anonymous person that claimed in 2008 to have used ken N's software to come up with some results about E-v13. For all we know, he has not run anything and made the whole thing up. Until it is a published paper with somebody's reputation on the line, it is all speculation. Even the actual paper that started this thread says that jugoslav I2a is slavic. have you read the paper?

[Malsori]

The 2500-2000 date is derived from Ken's data and estimation, now many people think that his way of calculating haplogroup age is very flawed, plus as someone already mention, pre-Roman Venetians might have had I2a.

It's flawed by the sense it doesn't give precise date. It doesn't change the fact highest diversity is in Ukraine and North Romania. Ken Nordvedt is the best possible source for anything related to Y-DNA i subclades. The guy has dedicated a portion of his life studying these subclades. And between there was no testing of Venetians, the dude who said so is a joke which except a t r o l l paper from a Croatian teen cannot bring any serious paper.

Do not even argue with Albanians. They will hijack any thread to talk about their made up Illyrian history. This pathetic behavior seems more commom in Albanian youth, as i've met some very nice Albanian elderly who do not exhibit the stupidity that their youth do.

The Albanians use 2500yo haplogroup dating based on Ken N's model.

Ken N's model was also used to date E-V13 in the Balkans. Albanians tested as the most recent migrants at 250AD-500AD. Thus if the Albanians here want to claim that Balkan I2a is recent using Ken N's model, they must also be ready to accept that their own population dates to 500AD using the same exact model.

dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/07/expansion-of-e-v13-explained.html

Nice ad hominem, trying to project your own complexes toward others. Your previous claims that pre roman Venetians had I2a1b1 was a big lulz. There is tested Venetians and they resulted to carry I2a1b1 only on your own narrow mind, not in the real world.

Btw, no one said EV-13 is Albanian marker. It's on contrary. It's a native Balkan-Mediterranean marker and these people were Albanized in ancient times. High percentage among Albanians is because founder effect. But, that doesn't change the fact that Y-DNA I2a1b1 was recognized as Slavic marker even by your own scientists in this study. The pattern of it's distribution among South Slavs and it's diversity peak is uncanny. So deal with reality.

Here is a dose of reality, from the paper itself

They showed that the most frequent Y-chromosomalhaplogroups in the overall Croatian population are I1b-P37 (41.7%) and R1a-SRY1532 (25%) indicating the Slavic gene pool component.

http://www.draganprimorac.com/wp-con...ports-2012.pdf

I have already mentioned in this forum that ex-Yugoslavians from net suffer from extreme Illyrianism. And, their biggest nightmare and problem is any sort of Albanian claim to Illyrians. Your megalomania is pathetic and funny at the same time especially when it comes to your self hate about having Slavic ancestry lol.

[nordicwarrior]

Why did I introduce my incredibly innovative theory on y/mtd/autosomal linkage on a Croatia/Albania/Greece thread? What was I thinking?

Please stop lobbing the same old stones at one another and pay attention to this ground breaking advancement in genetic thinking.

We might learn something new, of course this knowledge will be used in future Albian and Greek online territorial skirmishes--

Lather, rinse, repeat.

P.S. I guess modesty isn't always my strong suit.

[Yetos]

@yetos
we've argued all that before, I disagree and if you want to know my take on it, look at the threads about E v-13 (I'm not going to destroy this thread with large posts about something non-related). Why don't you answer the question about Macedonia? Or at least if you don't want to answer that, answer how old is Macedonian I2a in the balkans?

I have answer that in other threads many times,
no need to repeat and chew again the same gum,
just find the Simmilarity of DYS to have clear view of the few I2a that exists in Balkans,

for example why I2a with a certain DYS among 16-19 is Slavic, while the same I2a with the same DYS above 19-23 is North sea?
a good question to enter both of us to more deep water of gennetics,

[Yetos]

It's flawed by the sense it doesn't give precise date. It doesn't change the fact highest diversity is in Ukraine and North Romania. Ken Nordvedt is the best possible source for anything related to Y-DNA i subclades. The guy has dedicated a portion of his life studying these subclades. And between there was no testing of Venetians, the dude who said so is a joke which except a t r o l l paper from a Croatian teen cannot bring any serious paper.





Nice ad hominem, trying to project your own complexes toward others. Your previous claims that pre roman Venetians had I2a1b1 was a big lulz. There is tested Venetians and they resulted to carry I2a1b1 only on your own narrow mind, not in the real world.

Btw, no one said EV-13 is Albanian marker. It's on contrary. It's a native Balkan-Mediterranean marker and these people were Albanized in ancient times. High percentage among Albanians is because founder effect. But, that doesn't change the fact that Y-DNA I2a1b1 was recognized as Slavic marker even by your own scientists in this study. The pattern of it's distribution among South Slavs and it's diversity peak is uncanny. So deal with reality.

Here is a dose of reality, from the paper itself



http://www.draganprimorac.com/wp-con...ports-2012.pdf

I have already mentioned in this forum that ex-Yugoslavians from net suffer from extreme Illyrianism. And, their biggest nightmare and problem is any sort of Albanian claim to Illyrians. Your megalomania is pathetic and funny at the same time especially when it comes to your self hate about having Slavic ancestry lol.

we agree that E-V13 in Hemos peninsula is a founder effect result,
but where that founder effect happened?
Balkans, Iberia, minor Asia, Levant Egypt?
Can you give me an answer to that?

[zanipolo]

we agree that E-V13 in Hemos peninsula is a founder effect result,
but where that founder effect happened?
Balkans, Iberia, minor Asia, Levant Egypt?
Can you give me an answer to that?

http://haplozone.net/e3b/project
E project above with notes

http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.pdf


here is a list of reading materials from 2001 to 2013

http://community.haplozone.net/index...sg3436#msg3436

The oldest E-v13 in Europe was found in Iberia

[albanopolis]

@Kamani

Leave Greeks alone,
don't mix them with your 'theories' which are just propaganda pappers.
and especially Dienekes who is searching autosomal admixtures,
Dienekes is searching, you are just want to make propaganda.
I am proud of Dienekes being Greek, cause his blog has a good scientific lvl, which you do not have, and true or false he is using scientific methods,

Read one of Dienekes blogs. He was arguing with an albanian poster about origin of Arvanites. Dienekes explanations was that they are geneticaly Greeks and have nothing to do with Albanians. And you still use him as a scientific sourse? Is this retards forum?

[Yetos]

@ Albanopolis,

no need to answer you,
read his posts,
check his methods,
and then throw mud at him,

who knows, maybe he is right.

and may I ask you a question?
Arberesh what are they?
Italians Greeks or Albanians?