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Thread: Map of J2b and it's two major clades

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    But what about J1, J2' G.... Typical middle eastern genetic markers. Turks cluster genetically with many/most other middle eastern ethnic groups. Turks with haplogroup N like the Finns you suggest..... That seems invalid too me and I doubt the "original" Turks had significantly high levels of haplogroup L although I know haplogroups R1b and r1a can be found in certain middle eastern populations...
    He says the the original Turkish, the Turkic ethnic group came from the Central Asian steppes. They conquered the population of Anatolia, and nowaday there is the country of Turkey, but most of its population is not Turkic, but Anatolian, Middle Eastern or from the Balkan. There is a low percentage of Central Asian genetic markers among modern Turkish individuals comparing to Middle Eastern ones.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples
    Last edited by BakodiP; 11-04-13 at 22:55. Reason: link added

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    So how do they represent modern Turks or Turkish genetics if all the L, N , etc. lineages are no longer representative of the modern ANATOLIAN Turkish people? Most real Turks today are J2 or J1 or G with some R1b, there is no male haplogroup N present here

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    So how do they represent modern Turks or Turkish genetics if all the L, N , etc. lineages are no longer representative of the modern ANATOLIAN Turkish people? Most real Turks today are J2 or J1 or G with some R1b, there is no male haplogroup N present here
    See the difference between Turkish and Turkic. Like a Venn diagramm, the modern Turkish nation and the population of Turkey the big circle and the Turkic ethnic people are a small one inside the big one. Although we call the country Turkey and the people Turkish, they have no genetical connection with the original nomad Turkic invaders who conquered the area.

    The meaning of this is that they don't represent it, because they couldn't since they are a minority. Yaan was speaking all along about the Turkic people, not about the Anatolian population.

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    Ohhhh ok sorry my bad maybe I'm stupid

  5. #30
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    I can't explain it easier! :S

    http://i45.tinypic.com/14sfp3.jpg

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    I understand, I'm referring to the modern Turkish people from Asia Minor (Anatolia) so my initial comments withstand I suppose, J2a is more common in Italians, Cretans, ANATOLIANS, Iranians, Lebanese etc... Overall J2b (M-12 in particular) are more frequent in the southern Balkans and may originate there ( the J2B subclade) Greece+AlbaniaAlbania

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    You are absolutely correct I continued my research and it is true the original TURKIC central Asians had R1b and R1a mixed with rarer Siberian lineages ( Q and N) not to mention that Q would also migrate to, and dominate, both north and South American Indians. But today, in the modern Turkish ANATOLIANS living in Asia Minor, these Siberian lineages are extremely rare, they have been completely destroyed by middle eastern J1,J2,G,T, even some E lineages; the ancient story of the original Turkic people that moved from Central Asia to turkey is lost genetically speaking

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    Quote Originally Posted by BakodiP View Post
    Interesting theory! ;) Although my family name sounds really Hungarian. On our family coat of arms we have a flag like Skanderbeg's (red with the black two-headed eagle)
    black 2-headed eagle on yellow is the Byzantine empire, black 2-headed eagle on red is the Kastrioti Albanian noble family (who were probably at some point under Byzantium). So that's as certain of a clue as it can get in these cases. Janos Hunyadi and George Kastrioti were allies against the ottomans in the 1400-s and they were the only ones to ever beat them (until "Vienna" in the 1500-s). So I would be proud if I were you, I wish I had that kind of proof around my house.
    Genetically, it's hard to get precise with so few people tested in the area...

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    black 2-headed eagle on yellow is the Byzantine empire, black 2-headed eagle on red is the Kastrioti Albanian noble family (who were probably at some point under Byzantium). So that's as certain of a clue as it can get in these cases. Janos Hunyadi and George Kastrioti were allies against the ottomans in the 1400-s and they were the only ones to ever beat them (until "Vienna" in the 1500-s). So I would be proud if I were you, I wish I had that kind of proof around my house.
    Genetically, it's hard to get precise with so few people tested in the area...
    This is a coat of arms of one branch of my family from the XVII. century (1657-1673), not mine unfortunately. For our side I have only the description of the coat of arms, but the crest is nearly same as this one.



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    The 2 lions and the cross in the top-left are Hungarian Hunyadi symbols, the black eagle on red is Albanian Kastrioti family, the black eagle on yellow is probably Byzantine (or another Kastrioti), and the white-red squares in the bottom-left are probably croatian. I would say it is older than the 1600-s, because Albania fell to the ottomans in early 1500-s.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    The 2 lions and the cross in the top-left are Hungarian Hunyadi symbols, the black eagle on red is Albanian Kastrioti family, the black eagle on yellow is probably Byzantine (or another Kastrioti), and the white-red squares in the bottom-left are probably croatian. Very interesting...
    agree, but not completely.

    Top left is Hungarian Heraldry
    Top right is Bohemian Heraldry
    Bottom left is Croatian Heraldry
    Top Center is Holy Roman Empire [Habsburg Doppeladler on Gold]

    Black Doppeladler on red looks Albanian [Kastrioti]

    The Lion within the CoA is very interesting, is the head on pike supposed to be a Turk? Which would fit for 17th cen.
    Battle of Szentgotthárd and Great Turkish War [Großer Türkenkrieg] in Hungary

    at Bakodip


    Are you/your family of Hungarian nobility?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    agree, but not completely.

    Top left is Hungarian Heraldry
    Top right is Bohemian Heraldry
    Bottom left is Croatian Heraldry
    Top Center is Holy Roman Empire [Habsburg Doppeladler on Gold]

    Black Doppeladler on red looks Albanian [Kastrioti]

    The Lion within the CoA is very interesting, is the head on pike supposed to be a Turk? Which would fit for 17th cen.
    Battle of Szentgotthárd and Great Turkish War [Großer Türkenkrieg] in Hungary

    at Bakodip


    Are you/your family of Hungarian nobility?
    The coat of arms of Hungary (top left), Croatia (bottom left) and Dalmacia (bottom right) represent the old Kingdom of Hungary. With Bohemia they were part of the Habsburg Empire. And yes, that's possibly a Turkish head. It's surely from the time period which I described above because it was given by Leopold, and the soldier who got it died at 1673.

    Yes, my family is a Hungarian noble family, but they all became nobles during the Turks war, and they weren't so wealthy. My direct line in 1593, this coat of arms 1657-1673, and another branch in 1681. All are from neighbouring counties in north-western part of Hungary (Sopron, Vas and Moson).

  13. #38
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    at BakodiP

    I thought so, alot of Hungarians were knighted (ordered) during the Great Turkish war and your CoA suggests that. very cool.
    I think the union with Bohemia comes from King Sigismunds times.
    Hungary is a great historical place especially for central Europe. Im friends with some Fradi supporters and ground hopped Hungary with them in 2010 (also Győr), will def. visit Hungary again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    at BakodiP

    I thought so, alot of Hungarians were knighted (ordered) during the Great Turkish war and your CoA suggests that. very cool.
    I think the union with Bohemia comes from King Sigismunds times.
    Hungary is a great historical place especially for central Europe. Im friends with some Fradi supporters and ground hopped Hungary with them in 2010 (also Győr), will def. visit Hungary again.
    Great to hear that! ;) I hope you'll have a wonderful stay here again!

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    Map of J2b and it's clades according to FTDNA SNP Maps.

    J2b-clades.jpg

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    There are Bulgarians in Northwestern Anatolia

    Quote Originally Posted by ElHorsto View Post
    But as Kamani already said, both, M12 and M205 are present in Tatarstan, and M12 occurs throughout Europe, which of course can not be from Bulgars. Why to assume than that M205 spread due to a different cause? Also M205 peaks in west Turkey and I'm not aware of any Bulgar settlements in Anatolia. The little M205 in Bulgaria seems to have swept from neighbouring Turkey rather than from Tatarstan.
    There are Bulgarian settlements in North Western Anatolia. You may check out these links: http : // goo.gl/maps/xCjZE and http : // sasedna.ottomanist.info

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    Turks came to turkey from north more than inner asia

    Quote Originally Posted by BakodiP View Post

    I can't explain it easier! :S

    http : // i45.tinypic.com/14sfp3.jpg
    More people from the Balkans and the North, the Slavic lands (Ukraine, Russia, etc), speaking Turkic languages, might have come to Turkey, than the inner Asia.

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    j2b1

    Hello,is this map update? since 2010, a lot of new y dna test have maybe changed it

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    Smile j2b1

    I want to specify that i am talking about j2b1 map

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    Quote Originally Posted by lugdunum View Post
    Hello,is this map update? since 2010, a lot of new y dna test have maybe changed it
    I have no clue but probably it should have changed up to now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lugdunum View Post
    I want to specify that i am talking about j2b1 map
    Okay then sorry for my interrupt. I just wanted to share my opinion about the map.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by BakodiP View Post
    This is a coat of arms of one branch of my family from the XVII. century (1657-1673), not mine unfortunately. For our side I have only the description of the coat of arms, but the crest is nearly same as this one.



    Shqiptars or Modern Albanians have nothing to do with Georgia Kastriot or the flag he used. Georgia Kastriot is from the mijak tribe = Macedonian. He did not fight for Albania only for christianity. Language he spoke is the same as todays ethnic macedonians (he did not speak albanian or shqip at all). Modern Albanians are using the wrong flag that have nothing in common with them. Just a borrowed or stolen flag, because they got no history in balkans. Shqiptars (Modern Albanians) are partially from ottoman admixture with local inhabitants (many turks are albanians today in the balkans).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijaks

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    Shqiptars or Modern Albanians have nothing to do with Georgia Kastriot or the flag he used. Georgia Kastriot is from the mijak tribe = Macedonian. He did not fight for Albania only for christianity. Language he spoke is the same as todays ethnic macedonians (he did not speak albanian or shqip at all). Modern Albanians are using the wrong flag that have nothing in common with them. Just a borrowed or stolen flag, because they got no history in balkans. Shqiptars (Modern Albanians) are partially from ottoman admixture with local inhabitants (many turks are albanians today in the balkans).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijaks
    This reminds me how the Balkans is the most messed up region in Europe...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss View Post
    This reminds me how the Balkans is the most messed up region in Europe...
    Thx to United Kingdom (your country), USA and many other for messing it up in the Balkans. Creating artificial states that never existed before. Divide and Conquer as the Roman Empire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss View Post
    This reminds me how the Balkans is the most messed up region in Europe...
    It is ironic that many of them emigrate to other countries (Sweden, Germany, Canada, USA), want to be treated as equal there, but do everything to hurt other Balkan nationals. Anything to degrade and undermine fellow Balkan, using their ugly side of nationalism. They are the original Balkans, the Illyrians, the Dacians or the Greeks, the rest are Turks, Africans, Gypsies or even Slavs.
    It is so said.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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