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Thread: Map of J2b and it's two major clades

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    Even this guy is Albanian:
    Born in Nafplion in the Peloponnese Bua was a member of Albanian or Arvanitian Bua and Arianiti families.
    So 2-headed black eagle on red is Albanian (2-headed eagle as a concept is borrowed from Byzantium).
    All these 2 headed eagles are byzantine in heraldry, the serbs, russians, albanians etc and holy roman empire used it.....it was only used to declare that they where the legitimate continuation of the byzantine empire ( east-roman empire)
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    get over it? ...listen retard, I asked you to confirm your thoughts, that's all, don't go insulting me, propio un mona!.

    IF the Romans found any albanians, they would have noted this in there books, but they did not, they only noted for the area, epirotes, macedonians and dardanians . The searched under every rock in the balkans looking for minerals to mine
    I don't think there exist books for stupid folks. Sorry, can't help much. Books are for people with common sense. Romans wrotte all along about Albanians shithead. 12 of their Emperors were Illyrians( ancient Albanians0

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Colonised by nobody. Inhabited by Albanians. Greek colonies were expelled as soon as they formed. Only in Macedonia Greeks managed to have a foothold and finaly helenising it. It did minimal damage to Albanian Epiros. It left 4% of Greek vocabulary. But that was it. Slavs, some of them in Eupedia forums think they are Germanics and not Russian (strange ,no?), use the fact that Albanian language has borrowed very few Greek words, as a proof that Albanians have not been in Ballkans at all.
    Explain why there is no history of shipping from albanian people in the ancient times........I will tell you, because the "albanian" people are land-locked , more centred in kosovo than albania. One could say the true, pure Albanians are kosovo people

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    I don't think there exist books for stupid folks. Sorry, can't help much. Books are for people with common sense. Romans wrotte all along about Albanians shithead. 12 of their Emperors were Illyrians( ancient Albanians0
    your are a lost cause. I find it amusing reading your rubbish....keep it up , it makes my day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    only the ones who spoke about Kastrioti say a lot of different things, than the one you claim,

    there are many posts, written here,
    and many authors names, are given, that lived in the same time,

    the ones who read, they know,
    as per the most recent book
    The Castriotas were first mentioned in sources in 1394 and 1410 when John, Scanderbeg’s father, notified the Republic of Venice of his decision to send his son over to the Turks as hostage.17 According to the Turkish sources, the Castriota family originated from the village of Kastrat in northeastern Albania. Unlike the Thopias and the Comnenis, the Castriotas did not have a long history as members of the aristocracy. In fact, their elevation of status began with Scanderbeg’s grandfather, Paul Castriota, who initially owned two villages named Sinja and Lower Gardi.

    Paul Castriota line
    Pal Kastrioti was a noble man in Albania of the 14th century. Around 1383 he is attested as the ruler of two villages (Sina and Lower Gardi). His father was a kephale of Kanina which belonged to the Principality of Valona.[dubiousdiscuss] According to Gjon Muzaka Pal had three sons: Konstantin, Alexius and Gjon Kastrioti who was Skanderbeg's father.

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    [QUOTE=zanipolo;409171]Explain why there is no history of shipping from albanian people in the ancient times........I will tell you, because the "albanian" people are land-locked , more centred in kosovo than albania. One could say the true, pure Albanians are kosovo people[/Q
    No shipping from Albania? The reason that Roman attaked Illyria were Illyrian pirates. Were they swimming? Get your life together dude!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    your are a lost cause. I find it amusing reading your rubbish....keep it up , it makes my day
    Stop desinformation dude! And keep reading my posts. You will learn a lot about the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    as per the most recent book
    The Castriotas were first mentioned in sources in 1394 and 1410 when John, Scanderbeg’s father, notified the Republic of Venice of his decision to send his son over to the Turks as hostage.17 According to the Turkish sources, the Castriota family originated from the village of Kastrat in northeastern Albania. Unlike the Thopias and the Comnenis, the Castriotas did not have a long history as members of the aristocracy. In fact, their elevation of status began with Scanderbeg’s grandfather, Paul Castriota, who initially owned two villages named Sinja and Lower Gardi.

    Paul Castriota line
    Pal Kastrioti was a noble man in Albania of the 14th century. Around 1383 he is attested as the ruler of two villages (Sina and Lower Gardi). His father was a kephale of Kanina which belonged to the Principality of Valona.[dubiousdiscuss] According to Gjon Muzaka Pal had three sons: Konstantin, Alexius and Gjon Kastrioti who was Skanderbeg's father.

    From the above..what is a Kephale
    Another bit of compelling evidence is found in the Septuagint, the 2BC translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek. When the Hebrew word for “head” (rosh) meant a literal head, the translators translated rosh into kephalē.
    http://www.searchingtogether.org/kephale.htm

    Sometimes used as a church leader..........

    On the difference between castrioti and kastrioti....the true word is Kastrioti, because the italian alphabet does not have K, a C was used which in the end, the surname became divided by different historians in history

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Stop desinformation dude! And keep reading my posts. You will learn a lot about the world.
    ROFL, ignore

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    I don't understand this hobby of trölling Albanians in forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    Shqiptars or Modern Albanians have nothing to do with Georgia Kastriot or the flag he used. Georgia Kastriot is from the mijak tribe = Macedonian. He did not fight for Albania only for christianity. Language he spoke is the same as todays ethnic macedonians (he did not speak albanian or shqip at all). Modern Albanians are using the wrong flag that have nothing in common with them. Just a borrowed or stolen flag, because they got no history in balkans. Shqiptars (Modern Albanians) are partially from ottoman admixture with local inhabitants (many turks are albanians today in the balkans).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijaks
    Skanderbeg relationship with religion it's actually quite complicated as a lot of Christians he tried to persuade made it clear that they preferred an Ottoman rule than a Christian rebellion despite the support from the Pope, despite the title "Athleta Christi" etc meaning it wasn't a Christian vs. Non-Christian war, although this is how you could describe them. Also, he was a polyglot.

    ...There are so many ironic statements in your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I think except Kastrioti, you must also search the family tree of Aryanit, he was a slav from Fyrom.
    Nobles.

    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Weren't the Toshk Albanians an armeniid race of J2 men similar to Tuscans/Etruscans? Where they in link to the 20% of Albanians that are J2 or is that false?
    According to old time books Tosks are Alpine. Alpines tend to be Pan-Europeans. Armenid is the Caucaus region, Anatolia, Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    get over it? ...listen retard, I asked you to confirm your thoughts, that's all, don't go insulting me, propio un mona!.

    IF the Romans found any albanians, they would have noted this in there books, but they did not, they only noted for the area, epirotes, macedonians and dardanians . They searched under every rock in the balkans looking for minerals to mine they found and noted all the tribes and peoples.
    Albanian is a Roman term, it means white. They didn't met any Albanians, because the name is new. Most likely derived from Albanoi Ptolemy mentioned, the one every (non Albanian) scholar has mentioned, but you don't believe it exists. Albanoi though, it's only one what might have given the name. In what today are habitated by Albanains, there were many minor groups. Dardasi, for example, were mentioned by John Musachi as being Albanians, part of a coalition with the Musachi (who also saw themselves as Albanian). He mentioned in the beginning they were 60, although didn't mention everyone's names.

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Explain why there is no history of shipping from albanian people in the ancient times........I will tell you, because the "albanian" people are land-locked , more centred in kosovo than albania. One could say the true, pure Albanians are kosovo people
    Too many inner migrations to point a finger at anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    From the above..what is a Kephale
    Another bit of compelling evidence is found in the Septuagint, the 2BC translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek. When the Hebrew word for “head” (rosh) meant a literal head, the translators translated rosh into kephalē.
    http://www.searchingtogether.org/kephale.htm

    Sometimes used as a church leader..........

    On the difference between castrioti and kastrioti....the true word is Kastrioti, because the italian alphabet does not have K, a C was used which in the end, the surname became divided by different historians in history
    It's says the term it's very widespread in the Balkans used in the Byzantine Period meaning you're going in a dead end on whatever you're trying to find. Kastrioti with a K it's more recent as this is the Albanian standardization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemra View Post
    I don't understand this hobby of trölling Albanians in forums.


    Skanderbeg relationship with religion it's actually quite complicated as a lot of Christians he tried to persuade made it clear that they preferred an Ottoman rule than a Christian rebellion despite the support from the Pope, despite the title "Athleta Christi" etc meaning it wasn't a Christian vs. Non-Christian war, although this is how you could describe them. Also, he was a polyglot.

    ...There are so many ironic statements in your post.


    Nobles.


    According to old time books Tosks are Alpine. Alpines tend to be Pan-Europeans. Armenid is the Caucaus region, Anatolia, Iran.



    Albanian is a Roman term, it means white. They didn't met any Albanians, because the name is new. Most likely derived from Albanoi Ptolemy mentioned, the one every (non Albanian) scholar has mentioned, but you don't believe it exists. Albanoi though, it's only one what might have given the name. In what today are habitated by Albanains, there were many minor groups. Dardasi, for example, were mentioned by John Musachi as being Albanians, part of a coalition with the Musachi (who also saw themselves as Albanian). He mentioned in the beginning they were 60, although didn't mention everyone's names.



    Too many inner migrations to point a finger at anyone.



    It's says the term it's very widespread in the Balkans used in the Byzantine Period meaning you're going in a dead end on whatever you're trying to find. Kastrioti with a K it's more recent as this is the Albanian standardization.

    you seem like a clever man, educate your fellow people that they cannot be Illyrians,

    from roman historians

    propriedicti Illyrii finds a parallel in the
    Chorographia
    of Pomponius Mela, written between 43–44 AD.Mela (2.55–56) writes that
    hoc mare
    [the Adriatic],
    magno recessu litorum acceptum et vaste quidem inlatitudinem patens, qua penetrat tamen vastius, Il-lyricis usque Tergestum, cetera Gallicis Itali<ci>sque gentibus cingitur. Partheni et Dassaretae prima eiustenent, sequentia Taulantii, Encheleae
    [corr. Olivar-ius : encele V]
    , Phaeaces. Dein sunt quos proprieIllyrios vocant, tum Piraei et Liburni et Histria
    .
    20
    (“
    This sea
    [the Adriatic], situated in a large recess of the coast and widely open in its width, in the place where it penetrates for an extensive stretch,is surrounded until Tergeste by Illyrians and on the remaining sides by Italians and Gauls. Partheni and Dasareti hold its first part, then follow Taulantii, Enchelei, and Phaeaces; thereafter come the properly named Illyrians, the Piraei, Liburni and Histria
    ”).

    naming was from south to north.

    And OK on your K for the name reasons

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    educate your fellow people that they cannot be Illyrians,
    so that's what is bothering you...Albanians being Illyrians. Since you also pick up fights with Serbs here, I get the impression you want to be ancient in the area but don't want to be associated with Albanians. That sounds like a Croatian or Slovenian, in denial of his identity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    so that's what is bothering you...Albanians being Illyrians. Since you also pick up fights with Serbs here, I get the impression you want to be ancient in the area but don't want to be associated with Albanians. That sounds like a Croatian or Slovenian, in denial of his identity.
    bullshit claims by albanians saying they are illyrians
    bullshit claims by slavs saying they are illyrians, slavs saying they are thracians, germans claiming goths and prussians, swedes claiming goths and prussians, franks ( who are germans ) claiming gallic people etc etc is all wrong and all bullshit, the paranoia of trying to claim one ancient group to claim some kind of futuristic lands is unbelievable. it leads to stupid disputes over bullshit.

    The point is , all nations are mongrel nations, mutations of many ancient tribes, they have no claim on any ancient race.

    as for your albanians, ...lets see the truth, you have some epirote, some greek, some illyrian, some thracian, some italian, some goth, some vandal, some sarmatian, some egyptian, some jew, some anatolian I can go on and on.........your race is not pure.

    Explain why you want to claim some ancient people that do not exist now............let me see your reasons.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Instead of attacking each other help me guys! What do you think of my origin? Who could be my ancestors? When they became nobles (1593) they had Hungarian sounding name. They also have the red flag with the double-headed eagle in their CoA.

    My only match is an Armenian guy, but he claims his paternal ancestors came from Russia and were caviar merchants during the reign of Catherine the Great. They had a Russian sounding name, but maybe changed when moved to Russia and changed back when they went home to Armenia. (Russian name was Gubov and the Armenian is Proshyan, gub=prosh=lip.) (Our match is distant 800-1200 years ago, so propapbly around 800-1100 AD we had our common ancestor. Haplo: J2b* M241-, M205-.)

    I know there were Greek and Armenian caviar mechants in Russia that time, maybe the most famous is Ioannis Varvakis. And there were Greeks, Armenians, Byzantines in Hungary since the Arpads. But many refugees came from the Balkans during the Ottoman Wars as well.

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    http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%99%...84%CE%B7%CF%82

    Η οικογένεια πήρε το όνομά της από την πόλη της Καστοριάς,[1] απ' όπου καταγόταν, σύμφωνα με τον Πάπα Πίο Β',[2][3]

    According Pope Pios 2nd Kastrioti was from Greece Makedonia ruler of Emtheia and Kasturia,
    Kasturia was also inhabited by slavs that time, that is why Kastrioti except the connection with Greeks, also had connection with Slavs like his wife who was Serb, and his general aryanit or agianitis who was from today Fyrom.

    sources.



    • "Αλβανία", Αχ. Λαζάρου, σελ.86
    • "Αλβανοί, Αρβανίτες, Έλληνες", Σαράντος Καργάκος, Β' Έκδοση, 2000, σελ.106 και παραπομπές - σχολιασμός




    • Πάπυρος Λαρούς Μπριτάνικα, τόμος 32, λήμμα Καστριώτης
    • Πάπυρος Λαρούς Μπριτάνικα, τόμος 6, λήμμα Αλβανία, Ιστορία της Αλβανίας
    • Πάπυρος Λαρούς Μπριτάνικα, τόμος 27, λήμμα Ήπειρος, Ιστορία της Ηπείρου
    • "Αλβανοί, Αρβανίτες, Έλληνες", Σαράντος Καργάκος, Β' Έκδοση, 2000
    • "Ελλήνων Τόποι, 10.000 Χρόνια Ιστορίας", Πατριδογνωσία
    • Britannica Encyclopedia, Skanderbeg, 2007
    • Britannica Encyclopedia, Albania, Medieval Culture, 2007
    • "Dictionarium Latino Epiroticum", Fransiscus Blanchus
    • "Ιστορία του Ελληνικού Έθνους, Τόμος Ε', μέρος Β', Κωνσταντίνος Παπαρρηγόπουλος, σχολιασμός Καρολίδη
    • "Ιστορία του Σουλίου και Πάργας", Χριστόφορος Περραιβός
    • "Αλβανία", Αχ. Λαζάρου, Νέα Εστία, 1994


    Barleti
    Ursini
    Ahmet Muffit
    biografers of that era name him and give his origin as Greek


    Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer
    Karl Hopf

    Consider him as Serbian

    Κωνσταντίνος Παπαρρηγόπουλος
    considers him as Slav from Slav origin same nationality of Arianit (Fyrom-SlavMakedonian)
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Seeing those maps, it seems that J2b could have been one of the Indo-European haplogroups alongside R1b, R1a and G2a3b1. That would explain the presence of J2b in the Northwest Caucasus (Maykop region), the Volga region, the Balkans, Central Asia, the Hindu Kush, the Indian subcontinent and Iran.

    Another possibility (my original assumption) is that J2b spread in the Neolithic around the Middle East, to Danubian Europe, Iran and Central Asia, then was picked up by the Indo-Europeans in Central Asia (Andronovo and BMAC complex) before they continued their migration to the Indian subcontinent. The presence of J2b around the Volga would be a back migration from Central Asia or Iran during the Scythian period.

    It's too early to determine which hypothesis is the correct one.
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The Greeks spread J2b I believe to northern India under Alexander the Great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    The Greeks spread J2b I believe to northern India under Alexander the Great.
    yes, but Alexander the Great and his army were Thraco-Illyrian, that's why J2b is mainly Albanian and not Greek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    yes, but Alexander the Great and his army were Thraco-Illyrian, that's why J2b is mainly Albanian and not Greek.


    No Alexander and his army were South-Slavs,
    his name was Alexei
    I wonder what else we will hear in the forum,

    by following your other posts, yes Alexander was Etruscan from Albanian origin and spoke Pelasgian.
    his was not Dorian, but Kelt from Pannoni Basin, and his mother was Albanian from Serb origin,
    what else?
    oh I forgot,
    his army were Viking-Gothic people, who spoke Illyrian-Aromani,
    right?

    Oh I forgot, also Skudra in his country was a satrapy of Skonder people,
    right?

    and about Genetics,

    E-V13 is a parthenogenesis in Neolithic Balkans in Kossovo,
    J2b is Pelasgian so its Albanian also
    I2a and I2b and I1 is Illyrian,
    and R1b has its origin in North Albania
    while R1a has its origin in South Albania.

    about mothers,

    mtDNA
    H has its origin in Kossovo,
    X has its origin in North Albania
    and J is the trade mark of Illyrian matriarchical ancestry right.
    while U mtDNA is characteristic of Pelasgian/etruscan/Illyrian/Albanian (did I forgot something)

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    one day you will accept the truth Yetos. But anyways, you're way offtopic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Barleti
    Ursini
    Ahmet Muffit
    biografers of that era name him and give his origin as Greek
    STOP! They give his origin as Epirotean not as Greek. At that time Epirotean referred almost exclusively to Albanians. The Albanian language at that time was known as Epirotean as well. I'll let you search this dictionary to verify:


    The exclusivity of relating Albanians with Epiroteans persisted for a long time, hence why ethnic maps like these were common:



    In reality there were Greek and Albanian of Epirus region just like today, but at that time they were only counted as Albanians, which is why Albanians look so widepread in the South in those maps. The coastal area is most likely Albanian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemra View Post
    STOP! They give his origin as Epirotean not as Greek. At that time Epirotean referred almost exclusively to Albanians. The Albanian language at that time was known as Epirotean as well. I'll let you search this dictionary to verify:


    The exclusivity of relating Albanians with Epiroteans persisted for a long time, hence why ethnic maps like these were common:



    In reality there were Greek and Albanian of Epirus region just like today, but at that time they were only counted as Albanians, which is why Albanians look so widepread in the South in those maps. The coastal area is most likely Albanian.
    Stop?

    are giving me orders?

    !rst
    Ahmet Mufit names him Yunan,

    Barletti

    Tell me Epirus Despotate what ethnicity was?
    Greek or Albanian?

    That Time Epirotan were the Epirus Despotate.

    Sorry,

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Stop?

    are giving me orders?

    !rst
    Ahmet Mufit names him Yunan,

    Barletti

    Tell me Epirus Despotate what ethnicity was?
    Greek or Albanian?

    That Time Epirotan were the Epirus Despotate.

    Sorry,
    It wasn't an order, I was telling you you're going in the wrong direction. It's a verbal tic that it didn't translate well when written. I use use to mean 'pause and reflect', but how are you supposed to know.

    Epirotean was used for Albanians, that's why those map show Epirus Despotate as majority Albanian. I didn't make them. They were made by foreigners (Russian and French respectively). I can show you tons of others. They apparently just assumed that since it was called Epirus the majority of the population had to be Albanian, because at that time Epiroteans were identified with Albanians. Go on, research the dictionary. Did the Greeks agree with that? I doubt. Just like you now, they probably strongly disagreed. Were they taken into account? No. Just look at those maps.

    In Greek made maps, they don't show that region as majority Albanian. They did show mixed populations of Albanians and Greeks in certain regions. I know Greeks differentiated those two. I'm saying that others didn't. Those 'others' include the people you mentioned. That's just how it is.

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    There is another M205-, M241- person who found to be positive for Z574 SNP. He is of Armenian origin (FTDNA ID: 172798.)

    Proposed J2b tree:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...eR_2a9J6g/edit

    _M12, M102, M221, M314, L282 J2b__ M205 J2b1
    __ Z574, Z575
    ____ M241 J2b2
    ______ L283
    ________ Z638
    __________ Z1296
    ____________ Z1297, Z1298
    ______________ Z631, Z639
    ________________ Z1043, Z1048




    Last edited by BakodiP; 14-08-13 at 00:54. Reason: Bad format.

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    Analysis of the Geno 2.0 J2b2 M241 Heatmap: https://www.facebook.com/download/46...20Heatmap.docx
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