Pi gman
Pigmon/Pygmon/Pimond
- Messages
- 94
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 0
- Location
- U.S.
- Ethnic group
- French/Greek
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R-L2 Z49 Z142 Z150*
This seems like the appropriate place to ask some experts in linguistics about a complicated problem (at least for me).
The genealogical question for my origins seem to be tied to the Gimel or I Griega or Greek I
. Various spellings of our family name are Pigman said to have originally been Pigmon. Some branches of the family insist that it was spelled Pygman and spell their name that way today. When I finally found Pigmon in the 17th century records in Correze, France I see their ancestral name was spelled Pÿmond, Piémont, Piémonts, Piémond. Also earliest entries here are in the village of St. Priest de Gimel.
From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y
In Latin, Y was named Y Graeca "Greek Y". This was pronounced as I Graeca "Greek I", since the classical Greek sound /y/, similar to modern German ü or French u, was not a native sound for Latin speakers, and the letter was initially only used to spell foreign words. In Romance languages, this history has led to the standard modern name of the letter: Spanish i griega, French i grec, etc.
History
Semitic, Phoenician, Greek and Latin
An early Semitic version of the letter waw.
The later, Phoenician version of waw.
The oldest direct ancestor of English letter Y was the Semitic letter waw, from which also come F, U, V, and W. See F for details. The Greek and Latin alphabets developed from the Phoenician form of this early alphabet. In Modern English, there is also some historical influence from the old English letter yogh (Ȝȝ), which developed from Semitic gimel, as shown below.
The y when used as a consonant is actually a jjjuh sound - the way someone from Mexico or Latin American would say "you" as Joo.
Here is where it gets interesting. My early ancestors said to be French lived for a time in Norfolk, England. The earliest records I find are around 1620 in Hunstanton, Norfolk, England. The spellings I am finding there are Piggeman, Pigeman, and later on Pigman. In France the spellings are Pimond, Pimont, and in the 17th century Pigmon. The older ones are spelled as mentioned above. A branch of our family also settled in Tilburg, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands and they spell their name Pigmans. With an "s".
Our family has variously spelling our name Pigmon and Pigman. Even up to and including the 1940 U.S. census my Father and Grandfather are listed as Pigmon.
Also from: http://books.google.com/books?id=TV...er&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q=pigeman&f=false
Pyemont.
Osbert Piman Normandy 1180 95
MRS Osbert Piment 1198 lb
John Pigeman Engl c 1272 RH
The i Grega is used in Spanish and also Croatian as well as other languages.
Here is the translation of my name from Croatian to French:
Croatian Pijemont ----- to French = piémont and
Croatian Pijemonte ----- to French = piémonts
I have these questions:
1. Is this a Croatian name?
2. Would it have been pronunced as Pee jah moan?
3. Is Piggeman an attempt to spell a French name that the Norfolkians have never heard of?
4. Could the Pyemont family of York, England be the same family as mine?
Thank you in advance for entertaining these ideas!
Curtis Pigman (Pigmon, Pimond, Pymond, Piemond, Pÿmond, Piémont, Piémonts, Piémond?)
The genealogical question for my origins seem to be tied to the Gimel or I Griega or Greek I
. Various spellings of our family name are Pigman said to have originally been Pigmon. Some branches of the family insist that it was spelled Pygman and spell their name that way today. When I finally found Pigmon in the 17th century records in Correze, France I see their ancestral name was spelled Pÿmond, Piémont, Piémonts, Piémond. Also earliest entries here are in the village of St. Priest de Gimel.From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y
In Latin, Y was named Y Graeca "Greek Y". This was pronounced as I Graeca "Greek I", since the classical Greek sound /y/, similar to modern German ü or French u, was not a native sound for Latin speakers, and the letter was initially only used to spell foreign words. In Romance languages, this history has led to the standard modern name of the letter: Spanish i griega, French i grec, etc.
History
Semitic, Phoenician, Greek and Latin
An early Semitic version of the letter waw.
The later, Phoenician version of waw.
The oldest direct ancestor of English letter Y was the Semitic letter waw, from which also come F, U, V, and W. See F for details. The Greek and Latin alphabets developed from the Phoenician form of this early alphabet. In Modern English, there is also some historical influence from the old English letter yogh (Ȝȝ), which developed from Semitic gimel, as shown below.
| Phoenician | Greek | Latin | English (approximate times of changes) | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Old | Middle | Modern | |||
|  | V → | U → | V/U/UU → | V/U/W |
| Y → | Y (vowel /y/) → | Y (vowel /i/) → | Y (vowels) | ||
 |  | C → | |||
| G → | Ȝ → | G → | |||
| consonantal Y /j/ → | Y (consonant) | ||||
| Þ → | Y /θ/ | - |
The y when used as a consonant is actually a jjjuh sound - the way someone from Mexico or Latin American would say "you" as Joo.
Here is where it gets interesting. My early ancestors said to be French lived for a time in Norfolk, England. The earliest records I find are around 1620 in Hunstanton, Norfolk, England. The spellings I am finding there are Piggeman, Pigeman, and later on Pigman. In France the spellings are Pimond, Pimont, and in the 17th century Pigmon. The older ones are spelled as mentioned above. A branch of our family also settled in Tilburg, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands and they spell their name Pigmans. With an "s".
Our family has variously spelling our name Pigmon and Pigman. Even up to and including the 1940 U.S. census my Father and Grandfather are listed as Pigmon.
Also from: http://books.google.com/books?id=TV...er&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q=pigeman&f=false
Pyemont.
Osbert Piman Normandy 1180 95
MRS Osbert Piment 1198 lb
John Pigeman Engl c 1272 RH
The i Grega is used in Spanish and also Croatian as well as other languages.
Here is the translation of my name from Croatian to French:
Croatian Pijemont ----- to French = piémont and
Croatian Pijemonte ----- to French = piémonts
I have these questions:
1. Is this a Croatian name?
2. Would it have been pronunced as Pee jah moan?
3. Is Piggeman an attempt to spell a French name that the Norfolkians have never heard of?
4. Could the Pyemont family of York, England be the same family as mine?
Thank you in advance for entertaining these ideas!
Curtis Pigman (Pigmon, Pimond, Pymond, Piemond, Pÿmond, Piémont, Piémonts, Piémond?)
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