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Thread: The spread of various subclades of J2 from the Middle East towards Europe

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    J2 vs. R1b in Bulgaria: 11 vs. 10.5. In Ukraine: 6.5 vs. 4 . so, there's more J2 in Central East Europe and Southeast Europe than R1b. Also there's some of 'Iranic' R1a (Z93) in Europe, like there's J2a. Almost the same amounts...

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    Iranic R1a-Z93 in Europe: Geographical distribution of carriers subclades (Z93), according to information from commercial databases (Courtesy of I. Rojansky) http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turk...o-TurkicEn.htm

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    All takes place at very low % though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Iran is a strange place lol I wonder what subclade of R1a they have at 15-20%. I think it's a later addition to Iran because if Iranians brought j2 into Europe I sure don't see the iranic R1a genetic trail. There's not much J2 In Ukraine, Bulgaria can have 20% frequencies but J2 in Ukraine of 20% is very regional influence, not so much on a national level.
    Bulgaria has 10.5 % R1b and 10.5 % J2 according to the last study of 808 Bulgarians, which is the only valid study of Bulgarians. 5% of our R1b is L23 and 6% is J2a, of which 2.4 % is J2a4h,The biggest J2 in Bulgaria is J2b2- 3.8% and J2a4h- 2.4 %! :)

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    Cool thanks for the info : )

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    Here is the results :)
    http://i.imgur.com/8JvdPDa.png

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    C how there is 7 different R1b, which are different, do not think R1b is all the same different R1b is as different as E-V13 and E-V12 or something or E-V22 :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    All takes place at very low % though.
    True, Iranic tribes were totally assimilated into and absorbed by the natives of Europe. They mixed to much with the European women and their 'Iranic' DNA was deluded. Time after time they forget their language and disappeared. But you wrote that you "don't see the iranic R1a genetic trail" and by this map I showed you that there IS an Iranic R1a genetic trail, not much, but it exists.

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    Hi Everyone...I am new to this forum but wanted to share my recent DNA data results. My paternal line is J2a1b*. My grandparents are from Campania in Southern Italy (Napoli) and I am a 3rd generation American. I always considered myself of Italian lineage but after reading many of the posts, I am now considering that my paternal lineage may have flourished further "east" (i.e. Balkans) than previously thought. I have had my raw data further analyzed and was provided with J2-M67 marker. I am somewhat confused by having (2) separate halpogroups or is J2a1b* only a mutation of the J2 group? Any information would be appreciated. Thank you

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    Your J2a M67 is downstream from J2a and before that, J2. Your particular subclade originated in the Middle East, in the Caucasus region.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Thank you Adamo for your feedback. Very appreciated!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christos View Post
    Hi Everyone...I am new to this forum but wanted to share my recent DNA data results. My paternal line is J2a1b*. My grandparents are from Campania in Southern Italy (Napoli) and I am a 3rd generation American. I always considered myself of Italian lineage but after reading many of the posts, I am now considering that my paternal lineage may have flourished further "east" (i.e. Balkans) than previously thought. I have had my raw data further analyzed and was provided with J2-M67 marker. I am somewhat confused by having (2) separate halpogroups or is J2a1b* only a mutation of the J2 group? Any information would be appreciated. Thank you
    Might have came from the balkans.

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    Via the Caucasus if it came from Balkans, as It is well known that M67 originated in the Caucasus.

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    Of course u r Italian. Y haplogorups means nothing,it is the first male in ur line. U r Italian, genetics does not work like this. Plus ur group is also seen in Italy :) Hope u understand that saying u r not Italian because of ur Y DNA is like saying I am not Italian coz my blood type is AB etc.
    2.15% of the Italians have it

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    Caucasus is not in the Middle East. Dude u do have funny ideas about how genetics works. R1b did originate in the Middle East though(Anatolia).

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    I didn't say he was not italian, I said he's one of those J2a M67 Italians, and M67 originated in the Caucasus, just north of the Middle East. The only reason that I refer to the Caucasus as being the most "northern extension" of the Middle East is because the main countries of the Caucasus (Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan) have a genetic composition predominantly similar to the rest of the near east, with haplogroups such as J2 and G2 dominating over there.

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    Yaan according to you y-haplogroups means nothing but it traces a direct paternal descent to a particular point of origin, which for him, leads us to the Caucasus. That doesn't mean "nothing", it reveals to us everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I didn't say he was not italian, I said he's one of those J2a M67 Italians, and M67 originated in the Caucasus, just north of the Middle East. The only reason that I refer to the Caucasus as being the most "northern extension" of the Middle East is because the main countries of the Caucasus (Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan) have a genetic composition predominantly similar to the rest of the near east, with haplogroups such as J2 and G2 dominating over there.
    So your orgin are from the Caucasus too, the T haplogroup.

  20. #45
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    No. Haplogroup T as neither highest concentration nor diversity in the Caucasus. It either originated in the levant, or Iran. Or Mesopotamia. Info is still scarce on this hg, more studies must be conducted. Haplogroup G originated in Iran, but e G2 mutation took place in the Caucasus where G2 still dominates the region, and from there G2a spread to Europe via turkey. J2a M67 is a subclade of J2a (predominantly middle eastern J2) that originated in the Caucasus region as well. As for hg T, it has no particular link to the Caucasus other than that certain Armenians and Azeris (low %) may have hg T.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I didn't say he was not italian, I said he's one of those J2a M67 Italians, and M67 originated in the Caucasus, just north of the Middle East. The only reason that I refer to the Caucasus as being the most "northern extension" of the Middle East is because the main countries of the Caucasus (Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan) have a genetic composition predominantly similar to the rest of the near east, with haplogroups such as J2 and G2 dominating over there.
    Caucasus is J2a,I2 and G2a and Middle East is J1c,J2a,E-V22,E-V12,E-M123 so no they are not the same. And haplogorup tells u nothing, If a Gypsy H guy sleeps with a Norwegian U3 girl in 1254 and they have a child which is half Gypsy half Norwegian and this child goes to Czech republic and since 1270 until 2013 all the people in the family are Czech with the exception of 1 Italian 2 Swedish this people are hard core Czechs and the fact that the male line is the gypsy H, means nothing, absolutely nothing.
    Culture, language, mentality, self determination, looks make u what u r . Auto somatical DNA and female lines(carried by the whole of humanity) are also important. Male line tells u that in the down of time ur line was in Caucasus or Mesopotamia, yes it is is cool to know and interesting but it tells u nothing. There are I1 Vikings and I 1 Gypsies, J2 Jews,J2 Balkans etc.etc. So no y haplogroup is 2% of ur DNA and 0% of who u r,majority of people do not know their Y haplogorup and will never know it. Plus u r influenced by so much more haplogorups(all the males in ur MOm family etc.etc)
    Also about T- Mesopotamia and Levanat are the home to J2, T comes not from there, but even if it come from there this is Middle East. All haplogorups are connected to Africa and the Middle East.

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    Hi Everyone I included a brief introduction as provided by 23andme (whom analyzed my raw data): J2a1b* is a subgroup of J2 IntroductionHaplogroup J originated in the Near East about 20,000 years ago, at a time when much of the northern hemisphere was uninhabitable due to Ice Age climate conditions. The haplogroup is still common today in the region; but some branches have expanded multiple times to other parts of Eurasia and northern Africa.
    More recently the expansion of ancient Greece between the 8th and 4th centuries B.C., the Jewish diaspora and the spread of Islam from Arabia to northern Africa and Spain during the 7th and 8th centuries AD have carried haplogroup J2 around the Mediterranean and throughout much of Europe and the Muslim world.
    The Jewish DiasporaSeveral branches of haplogroup J2 spread with the Jewish diaspora from the Middle East into Europe, where the population expanded dramatically from the Middle Ages onward. Haplogroup J2 now reaches levels of about 20 percent among the Ashkenazi Jews of central and eastern Europe, and their descendants in other parts of the world.
    J2 and the Spread of AgricultureHaplogroup J2 is especially linked to the spread of agriculture in southern Europe. About 18,000 years ago, J2 arose in the Near East or Anatolia. Just a few thousand years later, early male farmers traversed the Mediterranean Sea, bringing their farming expertise and the J2 haplogroup to Crete, Italy, and Cyprus. But some of these men did not travel as far, instead settling in the Balkan region of present-day Georgia, Greece, and Albania. Today, haplogroup J2a - a branch of J2 - is found in about 11% of Georgians, while J2b2 - another branch - exists in about 15% of Albanians. A specific branch of J2 can also be found in the modern-day descendants of the Phoenicians, a sea-faring civilization that established trade colonies everywhere from Tunisia to Sicily to the Levant about 3,500 years ago.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Of course u r Italian. Y haplogorups means nothing,it is the first male in ur line. U r Italian, genetics does not work like this. Plus ur group is also seen in Italy :) Hope u understand that saying u r not Italian because of ur Y DNA is like saying I am not Italian coz my blood type is AB etc.
    2.15% of the Italians have it
    @Yaan I am a third generation Italian American and have considered myself of Italian lineage as my paternal grandparents were from Campania and Lazio respectively. However, when you say the Y Haplogroups means nothing, you are incorrect. Although my relatives are "from" Italy the clarification should be where the haplogroup originated. It did not originate in Italy per se but rather farther "east" in the present day Balkans, Anatolia, Middle East. I just wanted to share that clarification. Thank you of course for your feedback!

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    Not the Balkans man, your paternal ancestor came directly from west Asia, the northern Middle East, Armenia/Georgia region. Look at that area on a map, that's where M67 originated I won't repeat it again lol

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    Somewhere near extreme northeastern turkey.

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