The spread of various subclades of J2 from the Middle East towards Europe

? I don't understand you? There's very little R1b in Russia and mostly in Turkic speaking peoples. I believe that Indo-European speakers that brought R1b with them first settled down somewhere around Bulgaria (Central Eastern Europe, not far from the Black Sea) and not in Italia. in that area there's also lots of J2. People that borught R1b to Italia were not exactly the same immigrants from the Near East that settled down in southeast Europe.
 
I never said r1b first set up in Italy for gods sake lol. End of debate for me too much room for misinterpretation
 
Some of J2 came also into Europe with Iranic R1a folks. According to me the original Iranic speakers were R1a, J2, G +some other Middle Eastern haplogroups. Later this Iranic people (that migrated into Europe from Persian Plateau via Central Asia corridor) mixed too much with East European tribes *women) and absorbed European haplogroups and aDNA. Later they were totally assimilated by the natives of Europe, they lost their Iranic language and vanished.
 
adamo said:
I never said r1b first set up in Italy for gods sake lol. End of debate for me too much room for misinterpretation
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?? Have you seen how much J2 there's in Bulgaria and Ukraine?? There's more J2 in both countries than R1b...
 
Iran is a strange place lol I wonder what subclade of R1a they have at 15-20%. I think it's a later addition to Iran because if Iranians brought j2 into Europe I sure don't see the iranic R1a genetic trail. There's not much J2 In Ukraine, Bulgaria can have 20% frequencies but J2 in Ukraine of 20% is very regional influence, not so much on a national level.
 
J2 vs. R1b in Bulgaria: 11 vs. 10.5. In Ukraine: 6.5 vs. 4 . so, there's more J2 in Central East Europe and Southeast Europe than R1b. Also there's some of 'Iranic' R1a (Z93) in Europe, like there's J2a. Almost the same amounts...
 
Iranic R1a-Z93 in Europe: Geographical distribution of carriers subclades (Z93), according to information from commercial databases (Courtesy of I. Rojansky)
RojanskyI_R1aSubcladeZ93Migration.jpg
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/27_Scythians/KisamovNScytho-TurkicEn.htm
 
All takes place at very low % though.
 
adamo said:
Iran is a strange place lol I wonder what subclade of R1a they have at 15-20%. I think it's a later addition to Iran because if Iranians brought j2 into Europe I sure don't see the iranic R1a genetic trail. There's not much J2 In Ukraine, Bulgaria can have 20% frequencies but J2 in Ukraine of 20% is very regional influence, not so much on a national level.
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Bulgaria has 10.5 % R1b and 10.5 % J2 according to the last study of 808 Bulgarians, which is the only valid study of Bulgarians. 5% of our R1b is L23 and 6% is J2a, of which 2.4 % is J2a4h,The biggest J2 in Bulgaria is J2b2- 3.8% and J2a4h- 2.4 %! :)
 
Cool thanks for the info : )
 
C how there is 7 different R1b, which are different, do not think R1b is all the same different R1b is as different as E-V13 and E-V12 or something or E-V22 :)
 
adamo said:
All takes place at very low % though.
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True, Iranic tribes were totally assimilated into and absorbed by the natives of Europe. They mixed to much with the European women and their 'Iranic' DNA was deluded. Time after time they forget their language and disappeared. But you wrote that you "don't see the iranic R1a genetic trail" and by this map I showed you that there IS an Iranic R1a genetic trail, not much, but it exists.
 
Hi Everyone...I am new to this forum but wanted to share my recent DNA data results. My paternal line is J2a1b*. My grandparents are from Campania in Southern Italy (Napoli) and I am a 3rd generation American. I always considered myself of Italian lineage but after reading many of the posts, I am now considering that my paternal lineage may have flourished further "east" (i.e. Balkans) than previously thought. I have had my raw data further analyzed and was provided with J2-M67 marker. I am somewhat confused by having (2) separate halpogroups or is J2a1b* only a mutation of the J2 group? Any information would be appreciated. Thank you
 
Your J2a M67 is downstream from J2a and before that, J2. Your particular subclade originated in the Middle East, in the Caucasus region.
 
Thank you Adamo for your feedback. Very appreciated!
 
Christos said:
Hi Everyone...I am new to this forum but wanted to share my recent DNA data results. My paternal line is J2a1b*. My grandparents are from Campania in Southern Italy (Napoli) and I am a 3rd generation American. I always considered myself of Italian lineage but after reading many of the posts, I am now considering that my paternal lineage may have flourished further "east" (i.e. Balkans) than previously thought. I have had my raw data further analyzed and was provided with J2-M67 marker. I am somewhat confused by having (2) separate halpogroups or is J2a1b* only a mutation of the J2 group? Any information would be appreciated. Thank you
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Might have came from the balkans.
 
Via the Caucasus if it came from Balkans, as It is well known that M67 originated in the Caucasus.
 
Of course u r Italian. Y haplogorups means nothing,it is the first male in ur line. U r Italian, genetics does not work like this. Plus ur group is also seen in Italy :) Hope u understand that saying u r not Italian because of ur Y DNA is like saying I am not Italian coz my blood type is AB etc.
2.15% of the Italians have it
 
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