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Thread: Jewish people, where they are from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if one of the major contributions to AJ numbers would be Sephardi migrations from Iberia to eastern Europe after 1492.
    If not mistaken Jews that refused to convert to Catholicism in Iberea during this time moved to Islamic countries like North Africa for Refuge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    If not mistaken Jews that refused to convert to Catholicism in Iberea during this time moved to Islamic countries like North Africa for Refuge.
    Very true. But some also moved to northern Italy, the Balkans (which was under Ottoman control), southwest France, Germany, Poland, south Romania and later on the Netherlands, England and the 13 colonies.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Very true. But some also moved to northern Italy, the Balkans (which was under Ottoman control), southwest France, Germany, Poland, south Romania and later on the Netherlands, England and the 13 colonies.
    Interesting. Tolerance and Persecution seemed to have been a mixed bag and a complicated one in the politic/religious scenario of that time. Tolerated today and Persecuted the next. All depends who is it at the helm.

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    The Jewish blood I have is from Amsterdam, heavily mixed Sephardi/Ashkenazi and even one Mizrahi. Because they all came to here from different places, and it being only one eight of my ancestry, I think genetic testing will give difficult to interpret results. But that's what happens if you're from a city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sennevini View Post
    The Jewish blood I have is from Amsterdam, heavily mixed Sephardi/Ashkenazi and even one Mizrahi. Because they all came to here from different places, and it being only one eight of my ancestry, I think genetic testing will give difficult to interpret results. But that's what happens if you're from a city.
    According to 23andme I'm 95.1% Ashkenazi with the rest broadly European, that could be Sephardi, or even non Jewish. My great great great great grandmother was called Sury Laj Zolka, she was from rural Poznan, the name Zolka means yellowing in Polish, perhaps her dad wasn't Jewish. My biological father was a sperm donor, he was fair and his grandparents came from Germany and Poland, so there might be something not Jewish there, no clue.

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    hello!

    from my research i say the jews are reamining neanderthals(no they did not perish) actually most people from caucasus(former khazaria) and most middle easterners are neanderthals by genetics. ever wondered why the jews and muslims are so monotheistic and warlike?! they all share the same physical and psychological traits no wonder because the abrahamic religions have the same source abraham = ibrahim, KAABA(muslims) = KABBALAH(jews) they are genetically the same neanderthals ..

    just google "de nugent neanderthals"
    Last edited by vigilantexplorer; 12-12-14 at 03:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vigilantexplorer View Post
    hello!

    from my research i say the jews are remaining neanderthals("
    Actually they are not. Neanderthal genome has been sequenced, so we know for sure that there are no live Neanderthals. However, almost all non SSA people have about 2-3% Neanderthal genome. Try doing research from scientific papers and not some internet stories. It will get you closer to reality.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Actually they are not. Neanderthal genome has been sequenced, so we know for sure that there are no live Neanderthals. However, almost all non SSA people have about 2-3% Neanderthal genome. Try doing research from scientific papers and not some internet stories. It will get you closer to reality.
    of course they are sir! just google some pictures of chechens, muslim soldiers, jewish priests, muftis and compare them to ancient anthropological depictions of neanderthals skulls and body shape.. voila

    ps. a good example for a neanderthal is the chechen rebel umarov, muslim faisal shahzad or jewish irv rubin and ariel sharon with their tipically neanderthal short huge body frames, protruding mouths and sloping foreheads

    http://monctonnews.net/wp-content/up...ord-killed.png

    Cro Magnons had foreheads that went straight up, and strong chins but flat mouths; neanderthals have sloping foreheads, protruding mouths, and huge rib cages
    john de nugent
    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...rding-to-Arber
    Last edited by vigilantexplorer; 12-12-14 at 04:44.

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    Jewish people where they are from

    Some of the confusion probably comes from poor semantics in the US. The terms "ethnic group" and "race" are often used interchangeably here. Thats probably why people in the US sometimes refer to the Jewish ethnic group as a race. Another interesting note about intra-ethnic discrimination in the US. When discrimination happens within the white race its called racism. When discrimination happens within the black race its called colorism.

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    Haplogroup E3b

    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Correct although J originated strictly in the Middle East whereas E originated in Africa, but you can find some J1 especially in certain North African countries and some E3b in the Middle East.
    From jogg.info :
    'Unfortunately, misinformation about these haplogroups continues to pervade the public and media. Haplogroup E3b is often incorrectly described as “African,” leaving a misimpression regarding the origin and complex history of this haplogroup. Haplogroup J2, as previously discussed, is often incorrectly equated with J1 and described as “Jewish” or “Semitic,” despite the fact that it is present in a variety of non-Jewish Mediterranean and Northern European populations'

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    Jogg.info
    'It appears that E-M78 migrated from the Middle East to Europe during the Neolithic period. Once it reached the Balkans, a distinctive cluster formed which Cruciani (2004) refers to as the “alpha cluster.” The majority of European E-M78 appears to have originated from this cluster.

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    'In fact, the best candidate for possible E3b Israelite ancestry among Jews is E-M123. This sub-clade occurs in almost the same proportions (approximately 10-12%) among both Ashkenazim and Sephardim (Semino et al. 2004). According to Cruciani (2004), E-M123 probably originated in the Middle East, since it is found in a large majority of the populations from that area, and then back migrated to Ethiopia. He further notes that this sub-clade may have been spread to Europe during the Neolithic agricultural expansion out of the Middle East.' -( jogg.info ).
    It looks like Haplogroup J or J1+J2 are amongst 'majority' Y-DNA of Jewish people,probably, because that was the majority Y-DNA of local population population that lived in the land later named Israel. The 'seed' of 'Jewishness' originated in Y-DNA E that came from North Africa to re-claim the land E originated in.
    That would explain the 'promise' of land of Canaan.
    The same conversion happened to Khazars. Dienekes writes:

    'If Proto-Khazars were similar to present-day Altaians minus haplogroup C, then they would have a frequency of about 59% R1a and 22% Q. Therefore, it seems reasonable that an overall 5/22=22% of such Proto-Khazar elements into the Ashkenazi Jewish populations may be likely. But, the Khazars of Khazaria may themselves have been somewhat mixed with Western Eurasian elements..'
    Khazars' Y-DNA became major factor in European Jews 'problematic' assimilation to local European life style because they were Jewish only in 'label'. They didn't come to 'sit out the prosecution', they came as nomads to 'better place to live'. This why with such resistance 'new Jews' met the very idea to go to the 'promise land'.'Original Jewish' E - haplogroup always wanted to go back again to the 'promised land'. They needed the 'numbers' to accomplish another return. That explains arrogant attitude leaders of Zionist idea had toward reluctant regular Jews who felt fine staying in Europe.Even under strong 'dislike' from local population, that didn't have the benefit of knowing genetic reasons for conflict, 'Khazarians' were not convinced that going to Palestine is better solution.
    If it was known that 'new Jewish' were not responsible for biblical tragedy, it just might shifted conflict to combat 'True Communists' that consisted of multinational array of 'marginals' who were looking to 'corner the market' of political opportunity.
    That's it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by al-kochol View Post
    It is also a very well known fact that the father of history Herodotus, who traveled extensively through the whole known to him world (from Egypt to Scythia) in the 5th century BC, did not notice any Jews there.
    It's possible that he might not have mentioned them because he felt that their presence was non-noteworthy and obvious to an educated reader. For example, if I go on a road trip to New York and New Jersey and write up a summary of my experiences, am I likely to mention every single ethnic group I find?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnenburg View Post
    From jogg.info :
    'Unfortunately, misinformation about these haplogroups continues to pervade the public and media. Haplogroup E3b is often incorrectly described as “African,” leaving a misimpression regarding the origin and complex history of this haplogroup. Haplogroup J2, as previously discussed, is often incorrectly equated with J1 and described as “Jewish” or “Semitic,” despite the fact that it is present in a variety of non-Jewish Mediterranean and Northern European populations'
    Saying that E3b is "African" is a common shorthand, and a simplified model of reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertColumbia View Post
    Saying that E3b is "African" is a common shorthand, and a simplified model of reality.
    E3b is now termed E1b1b, which is a very generic term which gives a rather vague description of this haplogroup. This splits further into probably some 40 subclades separated by thousands of years and different routes and histories. As Haplogroups get more refined it is becoming standard to talk about a particular subgroup rather a generic term as what used to have just up to a few years ago. This applies more or less to all Haplogroups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnenburg View Post
    'In fact, the best candidate for possible E3b Israelite ancestry among Jews is E-M123. This sub-clade occurs in almost the same proportions (approximately 10-12%) among both Ashkenazim and Sephardim (Semino et al. 2004). According to Cruciani (2004), E-M123 probably originated in the Middle East, since it is found in a large majority of the populations from that area, and then back migrated to Ethiopia. He further notes that this sub-clade may have been spread to Europe during the Neolithic agricultural expansion out of the Middle East.' -( jogg.info ).
    It looks like Haplogroup J or J1+J2 are amongst 'majority' Y-DNA of Jewish people,probably, because that was the majority Y-DNA of local population population that lived in the land later named Israel. The 'seed' of 'Jewishness' originated in Y-DNA E that came from North Africa to re-claim the land E originated in.
    That would explain the 'promise' of land of Canaan.
    The same conversion happened to Khazars. Dienekes writes:

    'If Proto-Khazars were similar to present-day Altaians minus haplogroup C, then they would have a frequency of about 59% R1a and 22% Q. Therefore, it seems reasonable that an overall 5/22=22% of such Proto-Khazar elements into the Ashkenazi Jewish populations may be likely. But, the Khazars of Khazaria may themselves have been somewhat mixed with Western Eurasian elements..'
    Khazars' Y-DNA became major factor in European Jews 'problematic' assimilation to local European life style because they were Jewish only in 'label'. They didn't come to 'sit out the prosecution', they came as nomads to 'better place to live'. This why with such resistance 'new Jews' met the very idea to go to the 'promise land'.'Original Jewish' E - haplogroup always wanted to go back again to the 'promised land'. They needed the 'numbers' to accomplish another return. That explains arrogant attitude leaders of Zionist idea had toward reluctant regular Jews who felt fine staying in Europe.Even under strong 'dislike' from local population, that didn't have the benefit of knowing genetic reasons for conflict, 'Khazarians' were not convinced that going to Palestine is better solution.
    If it was known that 'new Jewish' were not responsible for biblical tragedy, it just might shifted conflict to combat 'True Communists' that consisted of multinational array of 'marginals' who were looking to 'corner the market' of political opportunity.
    That's it.
    What a load of nonsense, seriously.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by al-kochol View Post
    It is also a very well known fact that the father of history Herodotus, who travelled extensively through the whole known to him world (from Egypt to Scythia) in the 5th century BC, did not notice any Jews there.
    Why babble about Herodotus while there is ample archeological evidence documenting the presence of the Israelites (and, subsequently, Judeans/Jews) from the LBA onwards?
    That's a bit like saying the Tarascans didn't exist because Bernal Diaz del Castillo failed to notice them, needless to say it's ridiculous.

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    @Semitic Duwa
    I couldn't agree more.


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    Herodotus, who travelled extensively through the whole known to him world
    He travelled with finger on the map at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    Why babble about Herodotus while there is ample archeological evidence documenting the presence of the Israelites (and, subsequently, Judeans/Jews) from the LBA onwards?
    That's a bit like saying the Tarascans didn't exist because Bernal Diaz del Castillo failed to notice them, needless to say it's ridiculous.
    Herodotus traveled to Egypt and then went back to Greece and went on to examine the Persians and Skythians. He must have known about the Jews but was not interested in studying them because they were not important at that time.
    Last edited by Johannes; 27-08-15 at 02:07.

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    @John Doe: AJ are slightly more European than Semitic. Studies have shown that male AJ have about 30% European DNA and 65% Semitic. But AJ females came to 80% European DNA and 10-15% Semitic. This correlates with the historical record; Most Jews who left the Middle East emigrated to Italy and Greece and then into the Rhine River (while some went into the Balkans and then into east Slavic lands). On the way they married German and/or French women (who converted to Judaism). But after that they stopped marrying with the West Europeans and began to marry among themselves and created the mixed Ashkenazi Jews. When they were expelled from Western Europe and went into Poland and Russia they mixed with Slavic women but to a lesser extent. According to what I saw on your DNA results you come almost exactly the same as the figures above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Possibly, although the main persecutions happened only since the Crusades (for Ashkenazis obviously), before that, well, persecutions happened once in a blue moon, I can number them all in fact, well, there's the Assyrian exile, the Babylonian captivity, the Judeo-Hellenistic wars, the Judeo-Roman wars, the growing restrictions on Jews within the Roman empire when Christianity became the state religion, also many persecutions during the early middle ages but in the Byzantine region, by this time I suppose the Proto-Ashkenazis were already in the Italian peninsula/Gaul/Western Germania. After the Crusades, well, then you get those many persecutions, but the first Crusade is not even a 1,000 years old.
    You forgot the persecutions of the Jews by the Catholic Church in Iberia during the mid to late 7th century. Throughout their rule the Goths were very tolerant of both Catholics and Jews (the Goths were initially Arian). But when the Goths converted to Catholicism in the 7th century the Gothic kings began to persecute the Jews. It was the Jews who helped made it possible for the rapid conquest of southern Iberia (Andalusia). They were the fifth column of the Moors and flourished until the Almohads/Almoravids ethnically cleansed them from Andalusia (how ironic).

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johannes View Post
    @John Doe: AJ are slightly more European than Semitic. Studies have shown that male AJ have about 30% European DNA and 65% Semitic. But AJ females came to 80% European DNA and 10-15% Semitic. This correlates with the historical record; Most Jews who left the Middle East emigrated to Italy and Greece and then into the Rhine River (while some went into the Balkans and then into east Slavic lands). On the way they married German and/or French women (who converted to Judaism). But after that they stopped marrying with the West Europeans and began to marry among themselves and created the mixed Ashkenazi Jews. When they were expelled from Western Europe and went into Poland and Russia they mixed with Slavic women but to a lesser extent. According to what I saw on your DNA results you come almost exactly the same as the figures above.
    Over 80% of AJ patrilineages come from the Near East, and that's a minimalist estimate since a more realistic estimate brings us closer to 90%, and the study you are invoking here (Costa et al. 2013) was overturned by Fenandez et al. 2014's re-analysis of PPNB remains from Syria, and I won't even bother addressing the fact that the authors contradict their own conlcusions in the supplemental data. Furthermore, this "European" vs "Semitic" dichotomy is both confusing and inaccurate to start with. Finally, I have no idea how you concluded that AJs married "German and/or French women" before mixing with "Slavic women", if that's the impression you got from AJ autosomal results I'm afraid we're not looking at the same data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    Over 80% of AJ patrilineages come from the Near East, and that's a minimalist estimate since a more realistic estimate brings us closer to 90%, and the study you are invoking here (Costa et al. 2013) was overturned by Fenandez et al. 2014's re-analysis of PPNB remains from Syria, and I won't even bother addressing the fact that the authors contradict their own conlcusions in the supplemental data. Furthermore, this "European" vs "Semitic" dichotomy is both confusing and inaccurate to start with. Finally, I have no idea how you concluded that AJs married "German and/or French women" before mixing with "Slavic women", if that's the impression you got from AJ autosomal results I'm afraid we're not looking at the same data.

    OK so you must be talking about male DNA? Jewish Mtdna is heavily European. Ashkenazi Jews have traditionally been attracted to "goyim" women in order to "blend in" into their European environments. They did this in order to do business and find women to marry in Europe. They still mix with "goyim" women as we speak (look at USA and Hollywood).

    In the beginning ancient Jews were very similar to Arabs both in mental and physical characteristics -- dark skin, hairy, curly or wooly hair, almond-shaped eyes, belief in one god, very strict laws, loud, rude, aggressive, etc -- but their religion separated them. Eventually Jews in Europe became so mixed that they became indistinguishable from Europeans or Americans as they do today -- or any other race/nationality.

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    Very simplistic and racist of you.

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