Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 20 of 21 FirstFirst ... 1018192021 LastLast
Results 476 to 500 of 502

Thread: Jewish people, where they are from?

  1. #476
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    26-04-21
    Posts
    2


    Country: USA - New York



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Lol my apologies, I was replying to someone else who said something ignorant about religious ashkenzim (me) which I know for a fact to be wrong...I guess I replied to the wrong person or something. Yes, I agree the Khazar theory makes no sense to any serious person. While Jews lived in the Khazar kingdom, the actual Khazar admixture within Ashkenazim is probably none.

  2. #477
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    01-07-21
    Posts
    1


    Country: Poland



    Hello Everyone! That's my first post here.

    Recently I did a MyHeritage DNA test. It turned out that I'm 6,5% Ashkenazi. What does it mean actually? One of my great-great-grandparents was Jewish, am I right?

  3. #478
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,328

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidhi View Post
    Hello Everyone! That's my first post here.

    Recently I did a MyHeritage DNA test. It turned out that I'm 6,5% Ashkenazi. What does it mean actually? One of my great-great-grandparents was Jewish, am I right?
    No, MyHeritage is a company based in Israel and their reference groups must include a lot of Jewish people so their algorithms see Jewishness everywhere. Don't worry about it.

  4. #479
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,461


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    I would agree so long as you don't see it on other commercial tests.

    My caveat is because given the history of Eastern Europe, a good number of Jews "passed" to avoid persecution.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  5. #480
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-05-21
    Posts
    46


    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by oriental View Post
    According to the Bible Abraham around 1200 or 1500 BC was a shepherd so there were no Jews before that. R1b people were pastorialists and roamed around Middle East, Anatolia and Balkans. Of course, many people may have taken up shepherding as there was meat on the hooves - no need for hunting as all that is needed is feed the goats on pasture. The shepherds were a nuisance to the Babylonians till the Amorites who were shepherds under Hammarabi took over Babylon. These shepherd people might be the precursors to the Jews as the Ten Commandments come from the 'Hammarabi Code'. Around this time the phenomenon of the Sea Peoples occurred. Among the Sea Peoples who were killed were a few thousand circumcised dead when they attacked Egypt. The desert people were circumcised as sand getting into sensitive genital parts may have led to circumcision. The Sea Peoples were Haplogroup I, G and E driven out of Europe or from Anatolia. The I and G people may have stayed mainly in Anatolia but the E people may have joined the J people in settling in the Levant. J people originating from Arabia. Thus you have these people in the region of today's Israel. When Judaism arose these were the people J, E, R1b and maybe even some G. Of course no tribe is purely of a certain Haplogroup as families have boys and girls who knows what boys may be attracted by the girls and also tribes form confederation against a common enemy. There is going to be mingling.
    You make several mistakes. First, Abraham was a shepherd from 2000BC. Which does match in time with IndoEuropeans shepherds invading all the lands North of the Caucasus and The Black Sea, deep into Western Europe. Your thesis that Hammurabi (1700s BC) may have come from a related shepherd tribe is a possibility, even though a city like Babylon requires something more than shepherds, maybe educated traders, to be founded.

    The Sea Peoples happened in 1200BC, and the must have been J2, because the most likely thing is they were Greeks. Because they came to Egypt and Israel from the Sea, and they attacked Troy around the same time.

  6. #481
    Moderator
    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    2,253


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mmiikkii View Post
    You make several mistakes. First, Abraham was a shepherd from 2000BC. Which does match in time with IndoEuropeans shepherds invading all the lands North of the Caucasus and The Black Sea, deep into Western Europe. Your thesis that Hammurabi (1700s BC) may have come from a related shepherd tribe is a possibility, even though a city like Babylon requires something more than shepherds, maybe educated traders, to be founded.

    The Sea Peoples happened in 1200BC, and the must have been J2, because the most likely thing is they were Greeks. Because they came to Egypt and Israel from the Sea, and they attacked Troy around the same time.
    Well, but Indo-Europeans were not the only pastoral people, and legend says it that Abraham came from Northern Mesopotamia, therefore from typically Semitic lands (the source of many expansive Semitic peoples, who are also - don't forget it - mainly PASTORAL, not farming-based, societies -, from Akkadians to Assyrians). Semitic semi-nomadic shepherds and traders (don't underestimated herders, they were often not just warriors and shepherds, but also metallurgists and long-distance traders) conquering settled, urbanized and farming-based societies and soon adapting to and merging with them was a tale that can be told multiple time throughout the history of the Middle East. Amorites, Arameans, Chaldeans, Israelites, Arabs, etc. So, considering the entire mythology and belief system surrounding Abraham and his descendants is typically Semitic with Mesopotamian influences, any link to Indo-European is at best speculative, but probably delusional (a quality that is often found in ethnocentric, staunchly racialist and ultranationalist people).

    Also, the expansion of pastoralists north of the Caucasus and the Black Sea, deep into Western Europe, happened CENTURIES before 2,000 B.C., and was mainly linked to CWC and Bell Beaker, therefore largely happened between 2900 and 2300 B.C.

  7. #482
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,328

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I would agree so long as you don't see it on other commercial tests.

    My caveat is because given the history of Eastern Europe, a good number of Jews "passed" to avoid persecution.
    My experience has been that the different testing services account differently for that last 5% or so. In my case, Ancestry has 2% Baltics and 1% Eastern Europe and Russia. FTDNA in their Origins 3.0 mix has Malta for 4% and Magyars for about 2%. MyHeritage has Scandinavian 5.1% and Ashkenazi Jews for 2.9%.

  8. #483
    Regular Member cybernautic's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-03-18
    Posts
    78


    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: UK - England


  9. #484
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-01-09
    Posts
    696

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z36

    Country: UK - Scotland



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Irony, I hope.

  10. #485
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-06-18
    Posts
    1,328

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-M269 (LDNA)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Thracian
    Country: Greece



    Why there were a lot of theories about the Sea People settling north of Israel and becoming the Philistines of the Bible I would like some more genetic, archaeological proof.

  11. #486
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-16
    Posts
    1,270

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    rare E-FGC7391
    MtDNA haplogroup
    h3ap

    Country: Uruguay



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Basicly
    A mixture if levantine ancestery + southern european ancestery ( with small eastern european ancestery in eastern asckenazi )
    phenotype:
    gracile- med

  12. #487
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,461


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Honestly, people don't remember the paper on the genetics of the Philistines, and how they were bred out of existence in what is now modern day Lebanon?

    Without someone to constantly correct the record outdated theories spread and can take over a site I guess.

  13. #488
    Regular Member real expert's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-09-16
    Posts
    378


    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Honestly, people don't remember the paper on the genetics of the Philistines, and how they were bred out of existence in what is now modern day Lebanon?

    Without someone to constantly correct the record outdated theories spread and can take over a site I guess.

    Many people these days have a short attention span and a short term memory. Others are just new and novice to population genetics or not up to date. Besides, there are still people who think that the thoroughly debunked Khazar- theory is still legit, in spite of the evidence to the contrary from the several genetic papers of ancient Levant.

  14. #489
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-05-21
    Posts
    46


    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Honestly, people don't remember the paper on the genetics of the Philistines, and how they were bred out of existence in what is now modern day Lebanon?

    Without someone to constantly correct the record outdated theories spread and can take over a site I guess.
    But the Philistines were of Near Eastern genetic origin or were Near Eastern, went to Europe and came back.
    Because that has already happened...

  15. #490
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    16-07-21
    Posts
    4


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by al-kochol View Post
    Have we ever discussed here about Khazaria, the Eastern European state, and its Khazar rulers that converted to Judaism in the VIII century?
    Most scholars reject the Khazar hypothesis and have more acceptance for the Rhineland hypothesis, but there is a couple of papers out there that subscribe to this hypothesis, mainly the one by Elhaik et al. I personally think some Khazars were filtered into the Ashkenazis, but I don't think that is the predominant source of their jewish ancestry. Genetic data shows that they are around 50% Near Eastern and 50% European, and they pull in the direction of the levant, so genetics seems to rule the Khazar hypothesis out, at least when PCA's and percentages of ancestry are concerned. However, the GPS tool results of the Yiddish study did show some interesting results, showing a run right through northeast Turkey and through several villages named some version of Ashkenaz. There may be some connection there, but not sure how much is genetic because the genetics are not very Turkish.

  16. #491
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-05-21
    Posts
    46


    Country: Spain



    How can we rule out that Askhenazis come from Khazars?
    Given that they were near the MidEast, at the other side of the Caucasus

  17. #492
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,461


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    3 members found this post helpful.
    The Philistines were most probably Greek in original origin; however, with time they intermarried with locals, and at least in Lebanon seem to have disappeared. It's irrelevant if many of their ancestors thousands of years in the past included people from Asia Minor.

    Elhaik is a completely discredited hack; no one takes him seriously anymore.

  18. #493
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    14-07-21
    Posts
    23


    Country: Portugal



    they are from the region of Modern Iraq

  19. #494
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-05-21
    Posts
    46


    Country: Spain



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Genetic studies clearly show Jews are a Semitic people.
    By the way, their own myths claim their origin to be around 2000 BC, from a Nomadic pastoral tribe of the Middle East.
    But sort of succesful, since one Jew was elevated to Prime Minister in Egypt.
    This really match really well with the Jews, people that migrates and works in important professions.

  20. #495
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    16-07-21
    Posts
    4


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Mmiikkii View Post
    How can we rule out that Askhenazis come from Khazars?
    Given that they were near the MidEast, at the other side of the Caucasus
    Well I don’t think we can rule out khazars completely as I think at least some ancestry from Khazars may have made it to the AJ gene pool, but I think if that were the case that it’s a minority amount and the vast amount of ancestry in AJ is from migrants from the southern Levant as we can see most of the pull on a PCA is toward the Levant. Studies show AJ are around half European and half middle eastern and most of that middle eastern being Levantine. I was reading one study recently that gave a whole-genome result of 53% Europe and 47% Middle East for Ashkenazis and most studies put them around that 50/50 mixture.

  21. #496
    Moderator Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Location
    Ara Pacis
    Posts
    1,451


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Euroblood View Post
    Well I don’t think we can rule out khazars completely as I think at least some ancestry from Khazars may have made it to the AJ gene pool, but I think if that were the case that it’s a minority amount and the vast amount of ancestry in AJ is from migrants from the southern Levant as we can see most of the pull on a PCA is toward the Levant. Studies show AJ are around half European and half middle eastern and most of that middle eastern being Levantine. I was reading one study recently that gave a whole-genome result of 53% Europe and 47% Middle East for Ashkenazis and most studies put them around that 50/50 mixture.
    Looking at the genetic results from both academic and private testing there are differences among the Askenazis themselves, not everyone has the same genetic position, so let alone an accurate calculation can be made.

  22. #497
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    16-07-21
    Posts
    4


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The Philistines were most probably Greek in original origin; however, with time they intermarried with locals, and at least in Lebanon seem to have disappeared. It's irrelevant if many of their ancestors thousands of years in the past included people from Asia Minor.

    Elhaik is a completely discredited hack; no one takes him seriously anymore.
    I don’t believe in Elhaik’s theory of a Khazarian hypothesis model for AJ, however I do find some of the points he brought up as interesting and definitely would be great to investigate. In the language study, the GPS tool they used put the coordinates right through the middle of four villages named some sort of variation of Ashkenaz in eastern Turkey. I know there was push back from other study authors, but I admit this seems like there could be some sort of connection here of some degree, even if it wasn’t fully and may seem unlikely that it’s coincidence if the tool put the target right through the middle of multiple villages with some form of the name Ashkenaz. But with all that aside, I look more at PCA’s and AJ and other Jews on a PCA pull in the direction of the Levant rather than toward Turkey. It would be great if we could get some Israelite DNA and have an IBD test ran on AJ and other Jews in relation to the Israelite ancestry. There are two samples from the Canaanite studies that are from the Iron Age (Megiddo and Abel Beth Maacah) that could possibly be Israelites (or maybe not as Canaanites continued to exist in time) and it would be great to have seen some IBD sharing with them and Jews or even with Levantines.

  23. #498
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    16-07-21
    Posts
    4


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Looking at the genetic results from both academic and private testing there are differences among the Askenazis themselves, not everyone has the same genetic position, so let alone an accurate calculation can be made.
    the same can be said for any population. those percentages I gave are averages just like in any DNA study.

  24. #499
    Moderator Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Location
    Ara Pacis
    Posts
    1,451


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Euroblood View Post
    the same can be said for any population. those percentages I gave are averages just like in any DNA study.
    Yes, of course. Although not all populations spread out over a huge territory like the Askenazis did.

  25. #500
    Regular Member ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    671


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The Philistines were most probably Greek in original origin; however, with time they intermarried with locals, and at least in Lebanon seem to have disappeared. It's irrelevant if many of their ancestors thousands of years in the past included people from Asia Minor.

    Elhaik is a completely discredited hack; no one takes him seriously anymore.
    Some Philistine outliers were old Greek-like, I don't remember majority of samples plotting in the Myceneaen cluster. Only 2. I could be wrong though.

Page 20 of 21 FirstFirst ... 1018192021 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •