Jewish people, where they are from?

Present day Maltese Gene pool would know its origins from 1048/49 - In 870 The Aglibaids (coming from Tunisia) left Byzantine Malta an uninhabited 'hirba' (ruin) and was only repopulated from Sicily in 1048/49. This is according the Maghrebi scholar Al-Imyari. Al-Imyari also explains that the uninhabited Island was visited for fishing, honey harvest and wood. We also know in dna age that the haplogroups percentages are closest to those of Sicily. So this means that any present day gene pool does not represent any population prior to this time (including Neolithic Temple builders, Phoenicians/Carthaginians, Byzantines). Todays Gene pool after this time would have to include Thousands af Rodians that moved in with the Knights of St. John, some other thousand that came from Celano in Italy that were expelled to Malta, besides the numerous intermarriages (documented mostly in the churches around the harbour area) Between locals and some continental and other southern Europeans during the rule of the Knights of St John.

Please excuse my ignorance as I find the numbers and terminologies slightly overwhelming at times. Is there for example a Jewish marker!? - If there is what is it? example can one make a distinction between a J2a found in Greece which belongs and mutated in Greece and a J2a found in Lebanon which definably belongs to Lebanon?



Well, thank goodness we have a Maltese who knows his history.:)

I do think it's true, however, that though the Sicilians, the genes of Neolithic Temple builders, the "Italic" tribes, the Phoenicians/Carthaginians (although I personally doubt they settled in any large numbers), Greek Islanders, Greek settlers of the first millennium BC, Romans, and then Byzantines, would have fed into the Maltese gene pool.(some proportion of Berber as well) Then, the Rhodians would, I'm sure, have contributed some of these same strands, as would have other people the Knights brought to Malta.

As to your other question, in general I think that if you get to a fine enough resolution, there are numerous sub-clades which are specifically "Ashkenazi". I'll leave the finer points to experts in yDNA.

In terms of autosomal DNA, there is definitely an Ashkenazi "signature" . It's because their founding population was small, and they have been so highly endogamous for at least the last 1000 years. As a result, at 23andme, for example, specifically Ashkenazi ancestry can be found even in someone who is only 1/64 Ashkenazi. They are flooded with RF matches to full Ashkenazim. In fact, based on the proportion of AJ, there is a thread there where people can figure out exactly when the admixture must have happened.

There have been quite a few people who suddenly discovered an Ashkenazi grandparent or great grandparent of whom they were previously unaware. After their emancipation and release from the ghettos, some Ashkenazim obviously took the opportunity to "pass". In some cases, it was even an NPE, and it turned out that a biological parent was Ashkenazi. There were some who found the idea untenable, for various reasons, but the data doesn't lie. (The moral of that story is if you don't want to know, don't test.) It even happened to a leading researcher in population genetics. He is one of the people who published his entire genome on line in the interests of science. Dienekes ran it through his software and discovered it. I think it was a great grandparent whom he thought was Italian. The researcher then investigated further with his family and through genealogical records and found out that it was indeed true.

It doesn't work the same way for Sephardim. They don't form a discrete cluster.
 
I don't see how you can conclude this. As I mentioned before we don't need new mutations. We just need the right once to accumulate more in certain populations to make them statistically more intelligent as a group. This is not that difficult to achieve by continues environmental forcings.

Extreme examples which happened in last few thousands of years, or even hundreds:
from this: to this:
Not only look but also behaviour changed. From reserved, timid hunter to friendly, engaged and playful toy.

.

That's a very good observation!
Human selection is indeed a very powerful tool, and for some reasons Askhenzim have been selecting particular traits for hundred of years,in my humble opinion .
What I simply meant is that natural selection is a random and a long process compared with Human selection.

In many aspects of intelligence yes, like hunting and environmental awareness to perhaps even hand eye coordination and art (they were painting real art in dark caves with fingers). However I don't think they would be doing well in our civilization in general. Just look at modern hunter gatherers, the Prairie Indians or Australian Aborigines and how they do in today's world in general, and the picture is not that rosy
If you look at Da Vinci's sketches you'd notice that he paid a great attention to details,he was a very detail-oriented person and that's what made him arguably one of the best artists in human history .
Unlike Da Vinci,the first human to ever paint onto a cave in Europe was unique and revolutionary because he didn't feel the need to copy others and came up with a new way to depict the living.
The Chauvet Cave artist had an amazing Da Vinci-like ability clearly reflected in his art .
He also had an extraordinary memory to remember details since he couldn't possibility have brought in animals to the cave.
I think it's an insult to compare this particular artists to other cave dwellers around the world .
 
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Of course, it's possible that Pre Islamic Pre Arab slave trade Levantines were by default Sicilian/Maltese/Cypriot/East Mediterranean like which means that the AJs didn't have to admix to be in this position, they were there already for being Phoenician/Cypriot/Sicilian/Maltese like Canaanites in origin. That would make a lot of sense in fact, considering the fact that the Phoenicians colonised both Sicily and Malta, and later on when the Maltese population was wiped out, it was repopulated by Sicilians who were probably heavily influenced by the Phoenicians.
Note in this respect that the Phoenician / Punic trade network included the Iberian peninsula (including the tin and copper mines in NW Spain/ northern Portugal), i.e. the home of Sephardic Jews. Purely speculative, I know - but wouldn't it make sense, if there has already been a two thousand year-old trade tradition between the Levante and the Western Mediterranean / Iberia, that some of the Jews expelled during the first or second diaspora follow their ancient forefathers and settle along these trade routes?

Let's also not forget that there is documented evidence of Jews possessing Roman citizenship, including a certain Saulus/ Paulus. Not all Jews relocated as Roman slaves. Paulus' missioning, which focused on existing Jewish communities, is an excellent source to trace Jewish communities during the 1st century AD. They included Damascus, Antioch, Tarsus (Paulus' home town), Cyprus, Perga, Ephesus, Miletus, Rhode, Tyre, Philippi, Corinth, Rome, and Spain. Not villages, but the leading economic centres. And in at least some of them, the Jewish community was obviously powerful enough to get Paulus officially banned from the city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle
 
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Note in this respect that the Phoenician / Punic trade network included the Iberian peninsula (including the tin and copper mines in NW Spain/ northern Portugal), i.e. the home of Sephardic Jews. Purely speculative, I know - but wouldn't it make sense, if there has already been a two thousand year-old trade tradition between the Levante and the Western Mediterranean / Iberia, that some of the Jews expelled during the first or second diaspora follow their ancient forefathers and settle along these trade routes?Let's also not forget that there is documented evidence of Jews possessing Roman citizenship, including a certain Saulus/ Paulus. Not all Jews relocated as Roman slaves. Paulus' missioning, which focused on existing Jewish communities, is an excellent source to trace Jewish communities during the 1st century AD. They included Damascus, Antioch, Tarsus (Paulus' home town), Cyprus, Perga, Ephesus, Miletus, Rhode, Tyre, Philippi, Corinth, Rome, and Spain.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle

Also true.
 
People keep on calling cave drawings as 'art' as if the cave people were in sofa and having parties and discussing politics. That is not how it was. There were no encyclopedia and no instruction manuals. Their kids were asking questions. The drawings were instruction manuals for the kids and teens for training future hunters. It was a library as it were for the family or community if all a lot of people lived there.
 
I don't think it has anything to do with evolution in the sense of new mutations undergoing positive selection. It's about whether a group composed of people of above average intelligence, the founding population, can produce, through the practice of endogamy, descendents that are also above average intelligence.

Let's assume for the moment that the geneticists are correct who claim that the majority of the Ashkenazim alive today are descended in large part from a bottle-necked population of about 1,000 Jews from western Europe. Those Jews would be the survivors of the various pogroms of the Middle Ages. I think it's pretty clear that the ones who survived would have been the most intelligent members of their community, the ones who had the wit to figure out a way to survive, or the money to buy their freedom, like the merchants, and bankers, and physicians, or the rabbis who would have been guarded by their community. Those people then intermarried only with each other.

The selection for intelligence would also have been ongoing, as the persecution followed them to eastern Europe. In addition, I think that the AJ community practiced its own selection. To be a real member of the community, even at that time, you had to be intelligent enough to be able to read from the Torah at your Bar Mitzvah. (This was at a time when the vast majority of Europeans were illiterate.) The high esteem in which the erudite and highly intelligent rabbis were held, and their high reproductive levels is another factor, as has been pointed out by another poster.

(And yes, a group of that size can swell into the millions in 1,000 years. You just need to look at the size of the French Canadian community in relationship to the number of original settlers, or the size of the modern Amish and related communities, and this is after only a few hundred years.)


I personally find it all highly plausible.

There are even general genetic studies (previously discussed on this site) for the proposition that some degree of endogamy does seem to result in higher IQ scores in some groups. As I said, it all depends on the characteristics of the founding population. It can work in the inverse as well.

The endogamy comes with a cost in some cases, however. The AJ community is beset with unusual levels of certain genetic diseases. (as are the French Canadians and the Amish, for that matter.)

Even thought I think it's due to endogamy,I don't think that other environmental factors like oppression had played a role in this since there are so many groups that have been oppressed throughout history,besides neither oppression nor evolution seem to favor intelligent people because the majority ended up burned at the stake for being highly controversial and stubborn.
 
Well, thank goodness we have a Maltese who knows his history.:)

Grazie per il compliemnto :)

In terms of autosomal DNA, there is definitely an Ashkenazi "signature" . It's because their founding population was small, and they have been so highly endogamous for at least the last 1000 years. As a result, at 23andme, for example, specifically Ashkenazi ancestry can be found even in someone who is only 1/64 Ashkenazi. They are flooded with RF matches to full Ashkenazim. In fact, based on the proportion of AJ, there is a thread there where people can figure out exactly when the admixture must have happened.There have been quite a few people who suddenly discovered an Ashkenazi grandparent or great grandparent of whom they were previously unaware. After their emancipation and release from the ghettos, some Ashkenazim obviously took the opportunity to "pass". In some cases, it was even an NPE, and it turned out that a biological parent was Ashkenazi. There were some who found the idea untenable, for various reasons, but the data doesn't lie. (The moral of that story is if you don't want to know, don't test.)

Yes I notice these results from other members and they seem more exciting then the ones I got from FTDna. They seem to be more specific. I never got any percentages breakdowns which would have made things a little more interesting. Probably I would need to buy new tests as there are more accurate ones now. Defiantly it gets more interesting the more refined it gets.
 
As a German, I am allergic to any attempts to assign specific traits to (ethnic) groups for presumed genetic reasons - that line of argument has caused too much disaster in history, especially in recent German history. I don't have problems, however, to state that a specific social situation tends to culturally emphasize certain talents within the group concerned - a process that already starts in early childhood education, with parents encouraging certain behaviour, while discouraging or ignoring some other activities. In Germany, e.g., there are multiple studies, which demonstrate that even today, educational success is closely linked to the parents' educational and professional background (but much less to their income).

In that sense, we may look at the AJ cultural package as follows:
  1. High appreciation of formal education (school, religious studies, academics, etc.);
  2. Strong focus on literacy, including the ability to read several scripts (Latin and Hebrew);
  3. Multi-lingualsm (Yiddish at home, Hebrew in the Synagogue, other languages on the local market or when engaging in longer-distance trade) - note in this respect that linguistic ability / training is typically also linked to musical abilities;
  4. Systematic and relatively early training in text comprehension and interpretation (Thora);
  5. Strong community spirit, orientation on values and ethical norms (including the ability to question such norms);
  6. Attention to financial management, including related algebraic and mathematical skills;
  7. Trained in psychological and social diagnostics (the kids on the street are somehow different, eat other kind of foods, celebrate other holidays, etc.). Note that this is a passive trait. There would typically be little encouragement to "learn to behave like other kids", i.e. actively acquire social and leadership skills that are applicable outside the Jewish community.
All in all a cultural package that should score extremely well in most IQ tests. However, while there is certainly no lack of AJ among distinguished 19th and 20th century scientists, doctors, musicians, authors and bankers, they don't seem to be that well represented in painting, sculpture, engineering, design or architecture. Apparently, manual skills weren't held in particular high esteem within the Jewish community, which of course relates to the fact that from the High Medieval onwards, Ashkenazi Jews were hardly allowed to practice crafts except for jewellery. [This, in turn, related to their specific status outside traditional tribal and city laws, which implied that they could not enter the trade guilds that were established under such laws in the high middle ages.]

I understand and respect your P.C. but science shouldn't be subjective.
The fact that most identical twins reared apart have similar I.Q scores is a strong argument in favor of genetics .

I had also read somewhere that intelligent people don't tend to become artists despite the fact that most of them greatly appreciate art.
 
People keep on calling cave drawings as 'art' as if the cave people were in sofa and having parties and discussing politics.
What is discussion or arguing between tribe members, whether they should expend hunting area into other tribe's area, pros and cons, possible war, perhaps voting by tribe members, not politics? It is in simple and primitive form but still politics. And where would be the best place than in this cave/temple around the firepit?

That is not how it was. There were no encyclopedia and no instruction manuals. Their kids were asking questions. The drawings were instruction manuals for the kids and teens for training future hunters. It was a library as it were for the family or community if all a lot of people lived there.
It doesn't mean that this manual, or spiritual/animalistic drawings, were not done by artist in form of an art. Your argument doesn't exclude the one you are arguing against.
 
That's a very good observation!
Human selection is indeed a very powerful tool, and for some reasons Askhenzim have been selecting particular traits for hundred of years,in my humble opinion .
What I simply meant is that natural selection is a random and a long process compared with Human selection.
Not completely. The mutation is blind indeed, but selection of mutation is done by environment. Natural one or controlled by humans it doesn't matter. Environment is environment. If the new mutation give a positive survival trait it is duplicated and enforced in new offspring. If not, and sadly and usually it is not, is "weeded" out by dying of individual or lack of offspring, the end of genetic line.

Even thought I think it's due to endogamy,I don't think that other environmental factors like oppression had played a role in this since there are so many groups that have been oppressed throughout history,
Not that many were oppressed and persecuted every couple of hundreds of years for 3-4 thousand years, still keeping own language and traditions. Many also gave up under oppression and got assimilated and don't exist anymore. I think we are talking about very unique case.


besides neither oppression nor evolution seem to favor intelligent people because the majority ended up burned at the stake for being highly controversial and stubborn
Yes, that's true, but also the wiser ones being usually better off than average, tend having more children surviving and financial ability to send kids to safety if bad times come.
 
According to the many plots on this study http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1312/1312.6639.pdf AJs, Sicilians and Maltese plot between Cypriots and Greeks, I'm pretty sure this is the Lazaridis study.

It's true that we don't know a lot of things and that I'm basically speculating here, hopefully this uncertainty will be clarified soon.
Actually, the study's plots (especially Figure 1b in the Annex) tell a fascinating story - thanks for the link! As so many other studies, it doesn't cover Western-Central Europe (no data from Eastern France/Alsace, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, and Poland), so everything relating directly to the Rhineland, and the areas where many Ashkenazi settled in the late middle ages, is again remaining a mystery. Nevertheless, the following becomes clear:
  1. There are three distinct clusters of Jews. One is Yemenite Jews, genetically very close to Bedouins, Palestinians and a subset of Lebanese (no general surprise here, though the fact that the genetic distance between Yemenite Jews and Palestinians is in several cases smaller than, e.g., the distance between people from Bergamo and Tuscany, is a bit astonishing). The second cluster comprises Iraqi, Iranian and Georgian Jews, again very close to each other, as to Druzes (closer to Iraqi Jews) and Armenians (closer to Georgian Jews). The third cluster, finally, is stretched out somewhat further, and made up by North African, Turkish and Ashkenazi Jews. The geometrical centre of these three clusters is - surprise, surprise - somewhere between Palestinians, Jordanians and Lebanese. However, the three Jewish clusters are more distant from each other than, for example, Finns are from Hungarians, or Icelanders are from (northern) French This seems to indicate a relatively early split of the three lines.
  2. None of the Hungarians, Ukrainians and Lithuanians plots anywhere near Georgian or Iranian Jews. Neither do Georgians or North Caucasians. However, especially Armenians, but also many Turks, plus a single Greek, plot very close to Georgian Jews. I take that as indication of quite a gene flow between Caucasian/ Black Sea Jews and non-Jews during antiquity, but very little thereafter. I think it is also safe to conclude that Khazar Judaism wasn't a mass movement that has substantially shaped the genetic make-up of Eastern Europeans and Ashkenazi Jews. Nevertheless, if my eyes don't deceive me (the PDF's resolution isn't very fine, and it is high time for me to start wearing eye-glasses), one or two of the Ashkenazi dots (6-8 in total) seem to cluster together with Iranian Jews. That would mean some, though not the major, contribution of Khazar (Georgian / Iranian) Jews to the Eastern European Jewish community
  3. The Mediterranean Jewish / Ashkenazi cluster is quite spread out between Libyan and Tunisian Jews at one end, and Ashkenazi Jews at the other end. We are talking of a genetic distance here that is similar to the one between Croats and Greeks, or between Basques and Sardinians. Moroccan and Turkish Jews cluster in-between, but the former are closer to Tunisian Jews, and the latter closer to Ashkenazi. So, most likely, there were two migration waves - a Phoenician / Punic one along the southern Mediterranean coast, and a Roman-age one along the northern coast. As Lazaris et al. did not include Iberian Jews, we can speculate which of the two waves was more important there (but I am quite sure both played there roles).
  4. Ashkenazi, finally, plot extremely close to Sicilians, plus that single "South Italian" dot that I have been able to spot. The genetic distance of Ashkenazi to Sicilians is much smaller than their distance to Moroccan Jews, not even speaking of Tunisian Jews. Maltese aren't that distant from Ashkenazi either, but, as we have learnt from Maleth (Ti ringrazio!), Malta has been repopulated from Sicily. Cyprus plots already a bit distant, but still closer than Tunisian Jews. Unsurprisingly, Cypriots and Turkish Jews are quite close to each other (did I say unsurprisingly? Both Turkish and Greek Cypriots are probably going to hate me now...). Anyway, since Ashkenazi must somewhere have learnt German in order to turn it into Yiddish, there should have been substantial migration from Sicily into Germany, and from there towards Eastern Europe. The migration into Germany may have taken place in two waves - one, primarily to the Rhineland, during the 9th/ 10th century, and the second one, more towards Alsace and Swabia, during the Hohenstaufen rule over both Sicilys (13th century). The second wave may have included a "stop-over" in Lucera, which would explain the "South Italian" dot amidst the Ashkenazi cluster. Jewish migration from western Germany, where they were expelled from most cities, into central-eastern Europe alongside German colonists during the mid 14th to 15th century can anyway be regarded as established historical fact.
Mystery solved? Well, I would still like to see some genetic data from the Rhineland, Poland and Galicia analysed together with genes of Ashkenazi and Georgian / Armenian Jews. I also think genes can tell us a bit more about Portuguese Jews, who became major constituents of the Jewish communities of Antwerp, Amsterdam and Hamburg (and at least in Hamburg, the distinction between Ashkenazi and Sephardim disappeared after the Napoleonic emancipation). But otherwise, I personally feel that I now have a relatively good idea of the general patterns.
 
The reason why Ashkenazim and some Southern Europeans plot together is the combination of Middle Eastern&European genes found in both populations,I know two half Levantine-half euros that plot near Ashkenazim and other SE on McDonald's BGA.

ftDNA had assigned 10% of my DNA to the Jewish Diaspora,it seems like most NA score that much Ashkenazi on 23Andme most likely due to the shared Euro&ME ancestry .
 
Actually, the study's plots (especially Figure 1b in the Annex) tell a fascinating story - thanks for the link! As so many other studies, it doesn't cover Western-Central Europe (no data from Eastern France/Alsace, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, and Poland), so everything relating directly to the Rhineland, and the areas where many Ashkenazi settled in the late middle ages, is again remaining a mystery. Nevertheless, the following becomes clear:
  1. There are three distinct clusters of Jews. One is Yemenite Jews, genetically very close to Bedouins, Palestinians and a subset of Lebanese (no general surprise here, though the fact that the genetic distance between Yemenite Jews and Palestinians is in several cases smaller than, e.g., the distance between people from Bergamo and Tuscany, is a bit astonishing). The second cluster comprises Iraqi, Iranian and Georgian Jews, again very close to each other, as to Druzes (closer to Iraqi Jews) and Armenians (closer to Georgian Jews). The third cluster, finally, is stretched out somewhat further, and made up by North African, Turkish and Ashkenazi Jews. The geometrical centre of these three clusters is - surprise, surprise - somewhere between Palestinians, Jordanians and Lebanese. However, the three Jewish clusters are more distant from each other than, for example, Finns are from Hungarians, or Icelanders are from (northern) French This seems to indicate a relatively early split of the three lines.
  2. None of the Hungarians, Ukrainians and Lithuanians plots anywhere near Georgian or Iranian Jews. Neither do Georgians or North Caucasians. However, especially Armenians, but also many Turks, plus a single Greek, plot very close to Georgian Jews. I take that as indication of quite a gene flow between Caucasian/ Black Sea Jews and non-Jews during antiquity, but very little thereafter. I think it is also safe to conclude that Khazar Judaism wasn't a mass movement that has substantially shaped the genetic make-up of Eastern Europeans and Ashkenazi Jews. Nevertheless, if my eyes don't deceive me (the PDF's resolution isn't very fine, and it is high time for me to start wearing eye-glasses), one or two of the Ashkenazi dots (6-8 in total) seem to cluster together with Iranian Jews. That would mean some, though not the major, contribution of Khazar (Georgian / Iranian) Jews to the Eastern European Jewish community
  3. The Mediterranean Jewish / Ashkenazi cluster is quite spread out between Libyan and Tunisian Jews at one end, and Ashkenazi Jews at the other end. We are talking of a genetic distance here that is similar to the one between Croats and Greeks, or between Basques and Sardinians. Moroccan and Turkish Jews cluster in-between, but the former are closer to Tunisian Jews, and the latter closer to Ashkenazi. So, most likely, there were two migration waves - a Phoenician / Punic one along the southern Mediterranean coast, and a Roman-age one along the northern coast. As Lazaris et al. did not include Iberian Jews, we can speculate which of the two waves was more important there (but I am quite sure both played there roles).
  4. Ashkenazi, finally, plot extremely close to Sicilians, plus that single "South Italian" dot that I have been able to spot. The genetic distance of Ashkenazi to Sicilians is much smaller than their distance to Moroccan Jews, not even speaking of Tunisian Jews. Maltese aren't that distant from Ashkenazi either, but, as we have learnt from Maleth (Ti ringrazio!), Malta has been repopulated from Sicily. Cyprus plots already a bit distant, but still closer than Tunisian Jews. Unsurprisingly, Cypriots and Turkish Jews are quite close to each other (did I say unsurprisingly? Both Turkish and Greek Cypriots are probably going to hate me now...). Anyway, since Ashkenazi must somewhere have learnt German in order to turn it into Yiddish, there should have been substantial migration from Sicily into Germany, and from there towards Eastern Europe. The migration into Germany may have taken place in two waves - one, primarily to the Rhineland, during the 9th/ 10th century, and the second one, more towards Alsace and Swabia, during the Hohenstaufen rule over both Sicilys (13th century). The second wave may have included a "stop-over" in Lucera, which would explain the "South Italian" dot amidst the Ashkenazi cluster. Jewish migration from western Germany, where they were expelled from most cities, into central-eastern Europe alongside German colonists during the mid 14th to 15th century can anyway be regarded as established historical fact.
Mystery solved? Well, I would still like to see some genetic data from the Rhineland, Poland and Galicia analysed together with genes of Ashkenazi and Georgian / Armenian Jews. I also think genes can tell us a bit more about Portuguese Jews, who became major constituents of the Jewish communities of Antwerp, Amsterdam and Hamburg (and at least in Hamburg, the distinction between Ashkenazi and Sephardim disappeared after the Napoleonic emancipation). But otherwise, I personally feel that I now have a relatively good idea of the general patterns.


Very interesting. The cluster of AJs, Turkish Jews and North African Jews, however distant and large, indicates I guess a common Pre Islamic Canaanite/Phoenician common ancestry. Let's not forget that AJs, Sicilians and Maltese plot in the East Mediterranean in the gap between Europe and the Middle East, perhaps suggesting mainland European ancestry which shifted them northward, even so, the fact that they lack WHG ancestry, the main ancestry that really unites all Europeans, puts into doubt admixture from interior European populations, perhaps suggesting a Pre Slavic Hellenic population which lacked WHG ancestry, even so, the shared ancient Near Eastern ancestry of all European Mediterranean populations, and AJs, Maltese and Sicilians in particular due to the lack of WHG ancestry, is visible to the eye.
 
Dr Cassar explained that Maltese surnames may easily be divided into three surname groups: Semitic (Arabic and Hebrew), Romance (mainly Italian, Sicilian, Spanish and French), and English (as well as Scottish, Irish and Welsh). Today one also has to factor in other European and international family names which accumulated through recent ethnic intermarriages.

http://www.timesofmalta.com/article...st-Maltese-share-the-same-100-surnames.506018

The top 10 surnames in Malta make around 25% of the population and all names are listed in high medieval times and deep rooted in Maltese society. These are the results we have so far:-


G2a x 2

I2b x 2

R1b x2

J x1
E-V13 x1
Not tested x2





 
After looking at these ADMIXTURE results for k=13: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGR2ZWRoQ0VaWTc0dlV1cHh4ZUNJRUE#gid=24 I now agree less with the other posts I made in this thread. It does seem to me now that Ashkenazi Jews cluster close to Sicilians. Sicily was invaded by Normans about 1000 years ago, so maybe some of that 16.5% "North European" component is from that source. However, the similar amount of "North European" in Ashkenazi Jews I would think was from some different populations. Sephardic Jews show as 9.2% "North European" there. Having some Ashkenazi ancestry myself, I'll be interested to see what finer dna resolution will show in the future.
 
Actually, the study's plots (especially Figure 1b in the Annex) tell a fascinating story - thanks for the link! As so many other studies, it doesn't cover Western-Central Europe (no data from Eastern France/Alsace, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, and Poland), so everything relating directly to the Rhineland, and the areas where many Ashkenazi settled in the late middle ages, is again remaining a mystery. Nevertheless, the following becomes clear:
  1. There are three distinct clusters of Jews. One is Yemenite Jews, genetically very close to Bedouins, Palestinians and a subset of Lebanese (no general surprise here, though the fact that the genetic distance between Yemenite Jews and Palestinians is in several cases smaller than, e.g., the distance between people from Bergamo and Tuscany, is a bit astonishing). The second cluster comprises Iraqi, Iranian and Georgian Jews, again very close to each other, as to Druzes (closer to Iraqi Jews) and Armenians (closer to Georgian Jews). The third cluster, finally, is stretched out somewhat further, and made up by North African, Turkish and Ashkenazi Jews. The geometrical centre of these three clusters is - surprise, surprise - somewhere between Palestinians, Jordanians and Lebanese. However, the three Jewish clusters are more distant from each other than, for example, Finns are from Hungarians, or Icelanders are from (northern) French This seems to indicate a relatively early split of the three lines.
  2. None of the Hungarians, Ukrainians and Lithuanians plots anywhere near Georgian or Iranian Jews. Neither do Georgians or North Caucasians. However, especially Armenians, but also many Turks, plus a single Greek, plot very close to Georgian Jews. I take that as indication of quite a gene flow between Caucasian/ Black Sea Jews and non-Jews during antiquity, but very little thereafter. I think it is also safe to conclude that Khazar Judaism wasn't a mass movement that has substantially shaped the genetic make-up of Eastern Europeans and Ashkenazi Jews. Nevertheless, if my eyes don't deceive me (the PDF's resolution isn't very fine, and it is high time for me to start wearing eye-glasses), one or two of the Ashkenazi dots (6-8 in total) seem to cluster together with Iranian Jews. That would mean some, though not the major, contribution of Khazar (Georgian / Iranian) Jews to the Eastern European Jewish community
  3. The Mediterranean Jewish / Ashkenazi cluster is quite spread out between Libyan and Tunisian Jews at one end, and Ashkenazi Jews at the other end. We are talking of a genetic distance here that is similar to the one between Croats and Greeks, or between Basques and Sardinians. Moroccan and Turkish Jews cluster in-between, but the former are closer to Tunisian Jews, and the latter closer to Ashkenazi. So, most likely, there were two migration waves - a Phoenician / Punic one along the southern Mediterranean coast, and a Roman-age one along the northern coast. As Lazaris et al. did not include Iberian Jews, we can speculate which of the two waves was more important there (but I am quite sure both played there roles).
  4. Ashkenazi, finally, plot extremely close to Sicilians, plus that single "South Italian" dot that I have been able to spot. The genetic distance of Ashkenazi to Sicilians is much smaller than their distance to Moroccan Jews, not even speaking of Tunisian Jews. Maltese aren't that distant from Ashkenazi either, but, as we have learnt from Maleth (Ti ringrazio!), Malta has been repopulated from Sicily. Cyprus plots already a bit distant, but still closer than Tunisian Jews. Unsurprisingly, Cypriots and Turkish Jews are quite close to each other (did I say unsurprisingly? Both Turkish and Greek Cypriots are probably going to hate me now...). Anyway, since Ashkenazi must somewhere have learnt German in order to turn it into Yiddish, there should have been substantial migration from Sicily into Germany, and from there towards Eastern Europe. The migration into Germany may have taken place in two waves - one, primarily to the Rhineland, during the 9th/ 10th century, and the second one, more towards Alsace and Swabia, during the Hohenstaufen rule over both Sicilys (13th century). The second wave may have included a "stop-over" in Lucera, which would explain the "South Italian" dot amidst the Ashkenazi cluster. Jewish migration from western Germany, where they were expelled from most cities, into central-eastern Europe alongside German colonists during the mid 14th to 15th century can anyway be regarded as established historical fact.
Mystery solved? Well, I would still like to see some genetic data from the Rhineland, Poland and Galicia analysed together with genes of Ashkenazi and Georgian / Armenian Jews. I also think genes can tell us a bit more about Portuguese Jews, who became major constituents of the Jewish communities of Antwerp, Amsterdam and Hamburg (and at least in Hamburg, the distinction between Ashkenazi and Sephardim disappeared after the Napoleonic emancipation). But otherwise, I personally feel that I now have a relatively good idea of the general patterns.

I'm ready to bet that the only reason for the gap between Tunisian/Moroccan/Libyan Jews and Ashkenazim is entirely due to North African admixture.
Indeed, if you include NA populations (such as Mozabites) there's a clear cline of NA Jews towards these populations, suggesting admixture which makes sense given that Tunisian & Libyan Jews were amongst the first Jews to settle this area, with the Carthaginians thus giving them plenty of time to mix with neighbouring Berbers (there was a Judaic trend for quite some time and many Berber tribes eventually converted to Judaism).

This is easily picked up by most calculators and there is a non-negligible amount of IBD sharing between NA Jews and Mozabites for instance.
Moroccan & Algerian Jews seem to have absorbed much less admixture and might have more actual Sephardic ancestry per se.

Turkish Jews basically haven't changed much since their ancestors left the Iberian peninsula, and they overlap with French & Ashkenazi Jews accordingly so.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the diaspora's forefathers plotted around Turkish Jews, who happen to overlap with Ashkenazim.
If you put all Western Jewish populations on a PCA plot, there's a clear cline of all Jewish groups towards Lebanese-leaning Cypriots... And if you ask me, I think that's where pre-exilic Judeans plotted.

Yemeni Jews probably have more Arabian ancestry than anything else, and if you ask me they're very good proxies for what the Arabian peninsula looked like prior to Islam... Actually, they're the best we've got so far, since they've remained endogamous ever since (this also explains why Palestinians, Jordanians, Negev Bedouins etc cline towards Yemeni Jews).
If there's a case to be made for mass conversion, it would lie with Teymanim/Yemeni Jews.


Mizrahim seem to have absorbed a lot of Mesopotamian DNA, this is both apparent in their autosomal DNA & uniparental lineages. This is why they plot with Assyrians and Syriac Orthodox christians... Here again, we're dealing with communities which have been in Mesopotamia-Iran (and the Caucasus later on) for a very long time (at least since the Babylonian exile).
I do have Mizrahi relatives so they obviously have retained some of the original Israelite admixture... Still, I think the Mesopotamian contribution to Mizrahi Jews is greatly underestimated.

^^ These are all educated guesses, I could be wrong... Needless to say, I'd be rather surprised if I really were wrong.

I'd be very cautious with any model implying high amounts of European ancestry, unless you can explain the insane paucity of WHG.
 
I'm ready to bet that the only reason for the gap between Tunisian/Moroccan/Libyan Jews and Ashkenazim is entirely due to North African admixture.
Indeed, if you include NA populations (such as Mozabites) there's a clear cline of NA Jews towards these populations, suggesting admixture which makes sense given that Tunisian & Libyan Jews were amongst the first Jews to settle this area, with the Carthaginians thus giving them plenty of time to mix with neighbouring Berbers (there was a Judaic trend for quite some time and many Berber tribes eventually converted to Judaism).

This is easily picked up by most calculators and there is a non-negligible amount of IBD sharing between NA Jews and Mozabites for instance.
Moroccan & Algerian Jews seem to have absorbed much less admixture and might have more actual Sephardic ancestry per se.
Below is a representation of Lazarides' admixture results, copied from http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...-Aryan-split-of-IE/page11?p=434227#post434227 (poster Alan).
Admixtures-Lazaridis.png

I am not sure where it comes from. It is not part of Lazarides' original study, the colouring differs from Lazarides' admixture graphs, and the legend uses terminology (yDNA hgs) not used by Lazarides. Maybe Alan wants to give more detail on his source. Nevertheless, visual comparison suggests that the admixtures are at least very similar to those in Lazarides' original plots, so for the time being I take it as a fair representation of Lazarides' results.
And, in fact, the main difference between AJ and those from the South Mediterranean appears to be that the latter have picked up quite some Mozabite genes. AJ also have a bit of Mozabite genes, but far less. Instead, they have picked up quite some North European genes (mid-blue, peak in Fenno-Scandians and Balts), plus a tiny dose of dark blue North Eurasian genes (peak in Nganasan). The latter suggests some, very limited additional admixture in Eastern Europe. The Fenno-Scandian component is extremely close to the one found in Sicilians and Maltese, and may relate to various admixtures in the region, including (but most likely not restricted to) the Norman conquest of Sicily in the 10th century AD.

Turkish Jews basically haven't changed much since their ancestors left the Iberian peninsula, and they overlap with French & Ashkenazi Jews accordingly so.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the diaspora's forefathers plotted around Turkish Jews, who happen to overlap with Ashkenazim.
If you put all Western Jewish populations on a PCA plot, there's a clear cline of all Jewish groups towards Lebanese-leaning Cypriots... And if you ask me, I think that's where pre-exilic Judeans plotted.
I think you are overlooking the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Jews_from_Sicily
At the time of expulsion from Sicily, the Jewish community in Sicily dated back to early Roman times, and they were relatively untroubled on the island until the acceptance of the Crown of Aragon in Sicily in 1412. A great number of Jews had reached Sicily after Pompey's 63 BC sacking of Jerusalem, and additionally by Roman Proconsul Crassus, who is traditionally said to have sold more than 30,000 Jewish slaves on the island.
After the enslavement under Roman rule, Jews in Sicily eventually assimilated into society, working in professions such as philosophy, medicine, artisanal pursuits, and farming.

The exact number of Jews in Sicily at the time of expulsion is not certain, However, some have put the number of Jewish refugees at 36,000.[1] Also, in 1492, it is known the Jewish populations of Palermo, Messina, and several other cities were considerable, and that there were Giudeccas, or Jewish settlements, in over 50 places in Sicily, ranging in anywhere population from 350 to 5,000. At their height, Jewish Sicilians probably constituted from five to eight percent of the island's population.[2]

In 1492, as part of an attempt to maintain Catholic orthodoxy and purify their kingdom of Moorish influence, Ferdinand and Isabella ordered the forced expulsion or conversion of all Jews on pain of death. The date of the expulsion was extended from 18 September 1492 to 12 January 1493, in order to allow the extortion of opportunist tax levies. Many Sicilian Jews fled to neighboring Calabria where the Spanish Inquisition caught up with them again fifty years later. Not all of the Sicilian Jews departed. A large number of Sicily's Jews converted to Catholicism and remained on the island.
Actually, the Jewish population share might have been much larger. There is a high medieval petition by Jews from a Sicilian city (Catania? - I really should bookmark everything I read!) to adjust their tax due to their population share of 11%. In Southern Italy, especially Calabria, there have been many exclusively Jewish agricultural communities, and one paper puts the share of Jews among medieval Calabrians as high as 50%. Note in this respect that we are not talking "some Mediterranean island" here. Italian and German Wikipedia put Palermo's population under Arab rule (late 9th/ early 10th century) at 300,000. Other sources are more conservative, but there seems to be consensus that Arab Palermo had more than 100,000 inhabitants and equalled Byzantium in size. In spite of obvious population decline, mid-15th century Palermo is still believed to be among the top 10 European cities with a population close to 50,000. Naples had gained similar size by then, and Syracuse may not have been much smaller.
As is indicated by Paulus' missioning, Judaism enjoyed quite a popularity in the hellenisized population of the Roman empire. As such, it wouldn't be surprising if many Southern Italians had voluntarily adopted Judaism already by the time of Paulus' missioning. And, under Arab rule, it was probably better to be a Jew than to continue believing in ancient Greek gods. Or, put differently: If "Catholic" means Spanish/ Roman, "Orthodox" means Byzantine, and "Muslim" means Arab, what do you take for "None of the above" (e.g. former Greek colonists, or post-Vandal ex-Arianist, or "I want my good old Staufen emperors back, not these Spanish papist a..h..s")? Essentially, what I am trying to say is that there were probably hardly barriers to genetic exchange between Sicilian / South Italian Jews and non-Jews between antiquity and the end of Hohenstaufen rule around 1,300 AD, and Lazarides' results support this hypothesis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Sicily
The exiles found protection under Ferdinand I of Naples in Apulia, Calabria and Naples. On the death of Ferdinand in 1494, Charles VIII of France invaded Naples. At that time a serious disease, known as "French fly," broke out in that region, and the responsibility for the outbreak was fixed upon the Jews, who were accordingly driven out of the Kingdom of Naples. They then sought refuge in Turkish territory, and settled chiefly in Constantinople, Damascus, Salonica, and Cairo. To remain in Sicily, a significant number of Sicily's Jewish population converted to Catholicism. Many of these converts remained Crypto-Jews, known as neofiti.
I think that explains why AJ/ Sicilians are quite close to Turkiish Jews, and especially the well-visible fenno-scandian and Mozabite elements in the latter's gene pool, both of which are almost completely absent in Mesopotamian / Caucasian Jews. Cypriots are quite different from Turkish Jews: Much more Caucaso-Gedrosian, no Maozabites, and just a little fenno-scandian element (which might, among others, relate to survivors from the Crusaders' states settling there).

Mizrahim seem to have absorbed a lot of Mesopotamian DNA, this is both apparent in their autosomal DNA & uniparental lineages. This is why they plot with Assyrians and Syriac Orthodox christians... Here again, we're dealing with communities which have been in Mesopotamia-Iran (and the Caucasus later on) for a very long time (at least since the Babylonian exile).
I do have Mizrahi relatives so they obviously have retained some of the original Israelite admixture... Still, I think the Mesopotamian contribution to Mizrahi Jews is greatly underestimated.
Some Georgian Jewish communities (e.g. the one in Kutaisi) claim direct descent from the first diaspora, and it is said that some Jews released from the Babylon exile went to Georgia instead of returning to Jerusalem. Considering archaeological evidence of copper trade from the Caucasus into today's Israel since almost 10,000 years, I think there is quite a likelihood of Mesopotamian and Caucasian Jewish communities having been established more or less simultaneously. There has obviously been strong interaction between both areas, not only during Khazar times, but also as Persians have over several periods in antiquity, and in the late Medieval, controlled part or all of the area south of the Greater Caucasus. Moreover, as I have reported in a previous post, a substantial number of Georgian Jews were deported into Iran in the 17th century. So, speculation on Caucasian-Mesopotamian genetic interchange, including the effects on the area's Jewish community, may turn into an "hen and egg" question. Lazarides' admixture analysis clusters them both as Caucaso-Gedrosian.
Iranians appear to incorporate some South Asian (light green) element, traces of which may be also spotted among Georgian and Iranian, but not Iraqian Jews. That would rather speak for gene flow from the Iranian plateau than from Mesopotamia into Mirzahi Jews. In any case, what distinguishes all Jewish populations most strongly from their host populations is elevated "Bedouin 2" genes. If I recall correctly, that would be Bedouins from the Sinai. Apparently, (proto-) Jews spent more than just 40 years walking through the desert.....

I'd be very cautious with any model implying high amounts of European ancestry, unless you can explain the insane paucity of WHG.
Indeed, Lazarides' results point at a pretty straight migration of AJ from Sicily into Eastern Europe (though it still would have been nice to have had some Rhineland data for comparison). Strangely, while the biographies of various noted South Italian Jewish scholars demonstrate emigration towards Northern Italy and the Eastern Mediterranean, there is hardly any historical evidence for emigration into Eastern Europe. Might we have had two distinct patterns - the South Italian Jewish urban elite settling in other larger cities, and the Jewish artisan/ farmers rather going into the (newly colonised) Eastern European countryside? That would still leave unanswered why AJ spoke Yiddish, and not some mix of Hebrew and South Italian.
 
Once more, the main problem with a model proposing such a high amount of alledgedly Mesolithic European ancestry is the paucity (not so say absence) of WHG.
Another problem we face is the lack of IBD sharing between Jews & Italians, that's the most problematic part of the story if you ask me.

I'd take Alan's K20 admix with a few tons of salt if I were you, not exactly the gospel so to speak.

Also, there is no archeologic evidence for the Exodus, so it's highly unlikely that the Proto-Israelites spent 40 years in the desert... In fact, the present concensus is that the Israelites were Canaanites themselves.
What might've happened is that they incorporated the neighbouring Shasu cattle nomads (resulting in high frequencies of J1 & E-M34?).

Finally, I wouldn't assume a 1/1 correlation between genes and language, though there are some fits they simply don't work the same way.
All in all, I think Cyprus might've retained much of the pre-Islamic Levant's genetic make up, and this would explain why Western (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Syrian, etc) and Iraqi Jews cline towards Lebanese-leaning Cypriots.
 
The top 10 surnames in Malta make around 25% of the population and all names are listed in high medieval times and deep rooted in Maltese society. These are the results we have so far:-


G2a x 2

I2b x 2

R1b x2
J x1
E-V13 x1
Not tested x2





Thanks, Maleth.
 

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