Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 85

Thread: The Armenians, fathers of the Etruscans.

  1. #26
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    The Etruscans settled down in Tuscany over the preceding Villanova culture, which where men of undeniably R1b stock ( villanovans)The latins, centred more south around central Latium province, where men of R1b that where surrounded by more Greco-Anatolian contingents of people's, they where the strongest, as would be attested by their eventual conquering of all of italia.

  2. #27
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    I never claimed J2 originated in the levant, nor would I claim that J1 originated in the Caucasus, as you've misinterpreted once more. The Turks and Lebanese received Mesopotamian migrations that brought J2 to them.

  3. #28
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    I believe that J2 and r1b mixed in a VERYearly stage of the foundation of the Roman Empire.

    According to the stories Romulus and Remuswere the central characters of Rome's foundation and they were Etruscans. We're talking here about the 'origins' of something.

  4. #29
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    26-01-09
    Posts
    624
    Points
    10,628
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,628, Level: 31
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 622
    Overall activity: 1.0%


    Country: UK - Scotland



    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Until we examine ancient Etruscan and Roman remains any talk of haplogroups like R1b or J2 is meaningless and only educated guesswork.

  5. #30
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    They mixed with Etruscans, but where R1b men to begin with, these "latins". The latins where not Etruscans. At all. They assimilated near eastern italian elements, but at the core they where R1b Celtic types at first, before the Etruscans even arrived to Italy.

  6. #31
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I didn't say they where predominantly J2, I said those nations have some, and J2 is actually the biggest hg of Turks and Lebanese.
    My friend, when Turks form the Altai invaded area from what’s nowadays called Turkey they assimilated many natives of ‘Turkey’. They assimilated many Greeks and many Armenians. J2 in Turks is from Anatolians (Greeks and Armenians). Don't know much about the Lebanese, though...

  7. #32
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    They mixed with Etruscans, but where R1b men to begin with, these "latins". The latins where not Etruscans. At all.
    I know. Etruscans were not even Indo-European, at all!

  8. #33
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    26-01-09
    Posts
    624
    Points
    10,628
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,628, Level: 31
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 622
    Overall activity: 1.0%


    Country: UK - Scotland



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    They mixed with Etruscans, but where R1b men to begin with, these "latins". The latins where not Etruscans. At all. They assimilated near eastern italian elements, but at the core they where R1b Celtic types at first, before the Etruscans even arrived to Italy.
    You have no proof that Latin Romans were primarily R1b.

  9. #34
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    The Etruscans where a middle eastern element to Italy. That J2 element you speak of assimilated by Turks from Greeks and Armenians, it came from somewhere originally. The Fertile Crescent. Northern Iraq/southeastern turkey, this is the source of all J2, where the J-M172 originated.

  10. #35
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    They where heavily R1b u152 that absorbed much J2, as is attested by italian genetic composition today. Their ancestors where Halstatt celts turned la tene and these la tene "Gauls" we can call them once they're la tene, these proto-Gallic people crossed the alps into Italy; a European group.

  11. #36
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    The Etruscans where a middle eastern element to Italy. That J2 element you speak of assimilated by Turks from Greeks and Armenians, it came from somewhere originally. The Fertile Crescent. Northern Iraq/southeastern turkey, this is the source of all J2, where the J-M172 originated.
    Even BEFORE Etruscans and R1b Indo-Europeans, some parts of Italy were already populated by some kind of 'middle eastern' people.

  12. #37
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    These "celts" ( indirectly called I suppose) from the Paleolithic, absorbed incoming J2 Neolithic elements and even later greek migrations/colonization a.

  13. #38
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    And what hg did these ones have? The main italics/latins where R1b men that later merged with incoming Etruscans.

  14. #39
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    26-01-09
    Posts
    624
    Points
    10,628
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,628, Level: 31
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 622
    Overall activity: 1.0%


    Country: UK - Scotland



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    And what hg did these ones have? The main italics/latins where R1b men that later merged with incoming Etruscans.
    How do you know?

    You have no DNA evidence to back up your claim.

  15. #40
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Ask anyone with a half-a-brain and you'll have your evidence loll

  16. #41
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    And what hg did these ones have? The main italics/latins where R1b men that later merged with incoming Etruscans.
    Which Celts? Yeah, I do agree with you, that true Italians that spoke Latin were mostly R1b folks. Latin is connected to R1b. But, once again, ORIGINIAL Romans were not the same as modern-day Italians. Although there's a continuation between the 2 groups. The foundingfathers of the Roman Empire were Etruscans, but the Etruscans were a minority in Italy. It happens lots of time that minority of 'ELITES' absorbing language of the majority.

  17. #42
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    By the time of the Romans, R1b was the only thing dominating Italy, and the in-coming J2. Trust me...the Etruscans where no "elites", its the other way around pretty much, the r1b men pioneered the Roman Empire, they where fierce warriors, they incorporated the "Etruscans" and took them along for the ride pretty much is what happened. They fusioned both cultures, with the Latin one being dominant and respected the Etruscans gods and people's, but they themselves where no middle-easterners, they where continental Europeans.

  18. #43
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    26-01-09
    Posts
    624
    Points
    10,628
    Level
    31
    Points: 10,628, Level: 31
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 622
    Overall activity: 1.0%


    Country: UK - Scotland



    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    By the time of the Romans, R1b was the only thing dominating Italy, and the in-coming J2. Trust me...the Etruscans where no "elites", its the other way around pretty much, the r1b men pioneered the Roman Empire, they where fierce warriors, they incorporated the "Etruscans" and took them along for the ride pretty much is what happened.
    You have no scientific studies to back up your claims that the Latin Romans were mainly R1b.

    Many could have been J2 or G or any other haplogroup.

    One cannot glibly make unsupported statements as if they were scientific fact.

  19. #44
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Many Etruscans, incorporated into the Romans later where J2. As for G, G2a the P15 in particular it moved from Caucasus through Anatolia then Greece then southern Italy then Sardinia where it is responsible for Nuraghic culture and found in 20% of Sardinian males in certain regions, highest levels of G2a in Europe. They left no precisely strong mark on Italy and set up no famous or well-known italian-mainland civilization; a very secondary and unsuccessful genetic element overall, although its found in 8-9% of italian males, certain pockets in the south have maximums of 15%. Some of them where also fused to Romans , but had very secondary presence overall.

  20. #45
    Banned Achievements:
    OverdriveThree FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    06-06-11
    Posts
    2,651
    Points
    15,622
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,622, Level: 37
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 28
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Latin is an Indo-European language and is related to R1b. There were just much more R1b people in amount than 'Anatolian' Etruscans. After the unification of the 2 groups hg. R1b are still dominating the Romans. The 'flesh' of R1b people made it possible to expand to other regions. But the founding fathers of the Roman Empire were still Etruscans. The majority of the romanempire were R1b folks, of course their language, Latin was a language of common people.

    J2 was the brain and soul, R1b was the flesh & heart (soldiers, equipment, tools) of the ROMAN Empire in the early stage.

  21. #46
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    We can settle for that lol I like your statement and this is my personal belief! : )

  22. #47
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    As for the Etruscans, its often debated that they where either Mycenaean Greeks, western ANATOLIANS or even more exotic elements such as Armenians. They competed with the Greeks but received much cultural influence from them, even slightly "hellenizing" their gods and religious beliefs. If the Etruscans where in fact related to Lydians as is assumed, it becomes easy to see, through Lydian religious gods and customs, how we start getting much closer to the Middle East, sharing gods with Assyrians and such people's. as for linguistic evidence, Etruscan is not very as greek is, upon analyzing modern day Armenian although, it becomes clear that Etruscan is shockingly similar to Armenian, which has already been proposed as being home of the original pelasgians, Phrygians, etc. an excellent book to read would be Robert Ellis's " The Armenian origin of the Etruscans" written based on cultural, historical and linguistic evidence. Once upon a time, the roman tongue expanded and killed off most expanding Celtic languages. And once upon a time, the greek tongue expanded, killing off "Armenian" dialects which where spread from Italy to Asia Minor and in Armenia, until the only dialect akin to Armenian left was Armenian itself, still spoken upon the throne of its origin in Armenia herself. The Thracian race was traced from the far frontiers of Medea to the doorstep of central Italy. Some of the furthest to the east of this race where the Armenians. The furthest to th west where the Etruscans and raetians.

  23. #48
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Long ago the Armenian race stretched from the saraparae of media all the way to the Lydians/Phrygians of western Anatolia, but these western-Anatolian elements where cut off from the main seat of the Thraki ( Armenia) by a Syrian race near Syria and eastern turkey. The my diane, Lydians, lycians and Carians where all of this Armenia race.

  24. #49
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    20-11-12
    Posts
    577
    Points
    3,220
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,220, Level: 16
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 230
    Overall activity: 19.0%


    Country: Canada



    Some more info on Etruscan-Minoan-Lydian connection:
    http://news.softpedia.com/news/DNA-C...ns-57551.shtml

  25. #50
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Good study; an Etruscan-Turkish link.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •