Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 29 of 29

Thread: R1b entry into Europe

  1. #26
    Elite member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    21-01-14
    Posts
    537
    Points
    3,837
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,837, Level: 17
    Level completed: 97%, Points required for next Level: 13
    Overall activity: 4.0%


    Country: UK - Wales



    Quote Originally Posted by martiko View Post
    you are not right, because the genetic European analysis of the horses and cows points out origin Central Asia and also dogs' breed found in Basque country, Irland are of Siberian origin. The horses bashkir are of the same descendants as the Irish, Basque, Icelandic horses and almost all European typical breeds. Alone the sheep and nanny goats are originally from Europe or from the Caucasus. R1b would have had a lot of problems to transport the stock, hay, drinking water as well as themselves on boats. The only possibility is to follow the banks of the big rivers and on regions rich in pasture and Danube and Rhin for example would be possible.

    Therefore you can forget the first hypothesis with boats because it is unachievable for epoch.
    I'll start at the beginning. I can't link images but anyone can check if they want.

    If you look at the expansion of Funnelbeaker (west to east from somewhere around Denmark) and at the later expansion of Corded Ware (east to west) you can see they almost completely overlap with Corded Ware (IE R1a) coming out of the Unetice culture and seemingly over-running most of the Funnelbeaker territory.

    However if you look at the R1a and R1b distribution in the area of Corded Ware expansion what do you see? They are practically mirrored with the bulk of R1b to the west and the bulk of R1A to the east of the mid-point.

    I think this clearly shows that R1b expanded from west to east with the Funnelbeaker culture.

    So the question becomes how did R1b get there?

  2. #27
    Tabaccus Maximus Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Tabaccus Maximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-10-12
    Posts
    169
    Points
    10,333
    Level
    30
    Points: 10,333, Level: 30
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 217
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - SRY 2627
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1a

    Ethnic group
    Galo-Germanic Atlantic Fringe
    Country: USA - Texas



    Old thread, but I couldn't resist.


    Here's my take... (which I have posted in other areas of this forum at different times)


    1. R1b lingered in the Kazakhstani grasslands from 18-11 ybp. SPECIFICALLY, the Kazakhstani grassland and NO OTHER.

    2. Within this grassland are the four corners of R1b's ancient domain.
    a) NW - Bashkirostan (M269 + M73)
    b) NE - The Yenesian Valley (Mal'ta and Afontova oldest R*)
    c) SE - Tarim Basin (M269 + M73)
    d) SW - Turkmenistan (M269 wonderland)

    *It is within this region in which the generations of overhunting Mammoth and Asian Bison (Buffalo) led to a realization for the need of basic cattle management techniques and controlled breeding programs.
    This would have involved culling herds of weak traits and non-producing bulls. Large bulls (with large balls - not kidding) would purposefully have been left alone.
    Cows with large utters, twins, birthing ease, calf growth, good marbling and muscle growth would have been left on the field when possible. Early R1b peoples recognized these beneficial traits and attempted to maintain sustainable wild herds.

    They expanded into like terrain: The plains of Anatolia (M269), Iran (M269 + R2) and Eastern Siberia (M73).


    >R1b probably made it's first entry into the Balkans and Ukraine during the Pottery Neolithic or soon after, however, I suspect the question asks when R1b entered Western Europe?

  3. #28
    martiko Achievements:
    250 Experience Points3 months registered
    martiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-01-14
    Posts
    213
    Points
    397
    Level
    4
    Points: 397, Level: 4
    Level completed: 47%, Points required for next Level: 53
    Overall activity: 11.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-DF100
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T1a1

    Ethnic group
    european : basqueR1b/IberianI2b
    Country: France



    basin of Volga and Danube seem royal ways for stockbreeders accompanied with their herds and their good but it is not made in the space of two days.

  4. #29
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveTagger Second ClassVeteran5000 Experience Points
    Ziober's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-06-12
    Posts
    476
    Points
    8,499
    Level
    27
    Points: 8,499, Level: 27
    Level completed: 59%, Points required for next Level: 251
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Celtiberian
    Country: Spain



    Quote Originally Posted by martiko View Post
    you are not right, because the genetic European analysis of the horses and cows points out origin Central Asia and also dogs' breed found in Basque country, Irland are of Siberian origin. The horses bashkir are of the same descendants as the Irish, Basque, Icelandic horses and almost all European typical breeds. Alone the sheep and nanny goats are originally from Europe or from the Caucasus. R1b would have had a lot of problems to transport the stock, hay, drinking water as well as themselves on boats. The only possibility is to follow the banks of the big rivers and on regions rich in pasture and Danube and Rhin for example would be possible.

    Therefore you can forget the first hypothesis with boats because it is unachievable for epoch.
    I disagree with you about Iberian horses and domestication: http://www.horseshowcentral.com/hors...an_horse/333/1 http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0018194 paintings showing ancient independent domestication of horse in Iberia: http://www.soscaballolosino.com/Entr...0ecuestres.htm

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •