Breakdown of R1b subclades in Italy (Boattini et al.)

The Egyptians used chariots as well.
 
I have heard of the Trojans being Phoenician and the Trojan War being a conflict over the Maritime-trade in the Aegean between Phoenicians and Greeks. Is that theory still valid?
 
They may have been relatively genetically similar
 
The Egyptians used chariots as well.

Yes, well after the Indo-European migrations ! Chariotry in ancient Egypt didn't start before 1500 BCE, half a millennium after chariots appeared in the Pontic-Caspian steppes. The Egyptians just copied the Hittites, that's all.
 
I have heard of the Trojans being Phoenician and the Trojan War being a conflict over the Maritime-trade in the Aegean between Phoenicians and Greeks. Is that theory still valid?

The Phoenicians also appeared just after the destruction of Troy in 1200 BCE. However the Phoenicians were not Indo-European and never had interests around the Black Sea. Besides, Phoenician religion, culture and artefacts do not resemble Trojan ones.

It is well known that the Greeks under Agamemnon destroyed Troy and took commercial control over the Aegean and the Black Sea. But if the Trojans also had trade routes around the Mediterranean, then their disappearance would have left a vacuum that the Phoenicians quickly filled.
 
I personally cannot let go of the fact that the Trojans where probably J2; maybe their elite was R-L23 or something but they where certainly majoritarily of Mesopotamian stock.
 
The Hittites spoke luwian, as the Trojans did (spread over turkey/Syria) Lycian was similar to Luwian. Lydia is derived from Luwiya, land of luwians; they where all akin to each other as J2 people's; Carians are linked to Sarpedon and Minos of Crete, Crete as 40% J2 and has always been known as the European cradle of middle eastern people's; mainland Turks had long ago moved from Anatolia to Crete and back etc. the Lydians (ancestors of Etruscans) lycaonians where all linked to this, as where their predecessors the Trojans and to me....even the Hittites of Hattushash.
 
Chatal Hoyuk, Hattushash, these are sites linked to the very first ANATOLIANS...anatolians that to me where J2.
 
Even Lydian is a branch of the Anatolian branch of the indo-European language family, and look at their middle eastern J2 roots. I guess they adopted indo-European language but obviously their genetic story tells us otherwise.
 
The Phoenicians also appeared just after the destruction of Troy in 1200 BCE. However the Phoenicians were not Indo-European and never had interests around the Black Sea. Besides, Phoenician religion, culture and artefacts do not resemble Trojan ones.

It is well known that the Greeks under Agamemnon destroyed Troy and took commercial control over the Aegean and the Black Sea. But if the Trojans also had trade routes around the Mediterranean, then their disappearance would have left a vacuum that the Phoenicians quickly filled.

interesting, maybe the Phoenicians were a mix of early Caananites and Trojan immigrants from the destruction of Troy. That would explain their acquired maritime technology around 1200 BC.
 
If the Etruscans came from Anatolia, how could they not have had some R1b ?

How would the Greeks have spread R1b-M269 to central and northern Italy ?

Another possibility is that the R1b-M269 in central and northern Italy came with the Trojans, who according to the legend were the ancestors of the Romans. Ancient Troy might well have been founded by early Indo-Europeans after they invaded Southeast Europe between 4200 BCE and 3000 BCE. The Indo-European Ezero culture, which expanded over most of modern Bulgaria, lasted from 3300 to 2700 BCE. Troy was founded circa 3000 BCE. The timing and location match. This corresponds also to the golden age of the Maykop culture (3700-2500 BCE) on the other side of the Black Sea.

I had originally postulated five years ago that Maykop people founded Troy, and that the seat of the Maykop culture eventually moved to Troy. During that period, the bulk of R1b Indo-Europeans from the eastern and northern shore of the Black Sea migrated to the western shore and Southeast Europe.

The Hittites appear in northern Anatolia around 2000 BCE and spoke a language related to Trojan (Luwian). If the Hittites were Indo-Europeans and R1b, then in all logic Trojans were also R1b people. Since R1b-M269 (or actually its subclade L23, not tested in this study) is the dominant Indo-European variety of R1b in Anatolia, Greece and the Balkans, there have high chances that the Trojans belonged to that subclade.

Another candidate for the Trojan haplogroup is R1b-U152 itself, as U152 is generally associated with the expansion of the Hallstatt and La Tène cultures, which suddenly started around 1200 BCE, just after the destruction of Troy. What if the Trojans founded the Hallstatt culture and its Italian offshoot, the Villanovan culture ?

The only way to know for sure whether the Trojans were M269, L23 or U152 is to test ancient DNA from the Troy region dating from sometime between 3000 and 1200 BCE. What is certain is that U152 is present in Anatolia today, but it could be the result of back migrations of the Celts and the Romans.
The story of Aeneas comes to mind.
 
The Phoenicians where Canaanites but before that they came from the Persian gulf region; they differ from the Trojans.
 
The Hittites spoke luwian, as the Trojans did (spread over turkey/Syria) Lycian was similar to Luwian. Lydia is derived from Luwiya, land of luwians; they where all akin to each other as J2 people's; Carians are linked to Sarpedon and Minos of Crete, Crete as 40% J2 and has always been known as the European cradle of middle eastern people's; mainland Turks had long ago moved from Anatolia to Crete and back etc. the Lydians (ancestors of Etruscans) lycaonians where all linked to this, as where their predecessors the Trojans and to me....even the Hittites of Hattushash.

Sorry, etruscans, pelasgians, hattians did not spoke IE, it has high possibility that Troyans did not spoke IE also
 
I'm not anti-Semitic I already said that.
 
I have updated the map of R1b-U152 taking into account the Boattini study.

Haplogroup-R1b-S28.gif

You have moved the epicentre from Emilia to basically Lake Como/Bergamo area ( east Lombardy).

You do know thats basically the Lepontic language area, the language that began celtic language
AND
Bergamo is the admixture centre for the north of italy
 
I personally cannot let go of the fact that the Trojans where probably J2; maybe their elite was R-L23 or something but they where certainly majoritarily of Mesopotamian stock.

There was no Turkic people in Anatolia when the Trojans where around. The Turkic people came from Central Asia around 600AD, they are usually associated with the uzbeks in regards to J2.
 
I agree with that. But within Italy the vast majority of U152 is Italic. In France, Switzerland, Germany and Belgium, U152 may be either Celtic or Italic (Roman).

Did we actually look at the full text, did we see the ages of the Ydna and its arrival in Italy.
G2 is 15000 years old, next is
R1b at 7000 years old

is ti not logical that G2 came to Italy first even if they arrived in minimal numbers...........or am I missing something with the report?
 
interesting, maybe the Phoenicians were a mix of early Caananites and Trojan immigrants from the destruction of Troy. That would explain their acquired maritime technology around 1200 BC.

Phoenicians knew about trojans because they where around at the same time.

My guess is that the trojans where R1b as with the Hitties ( in majority ) and their allies the tracians of anatolia where G2a3 , that is Bithynian and mysian thracians. G2a3 is northern Anatolia and G2a4 is northern caucasus.
Map below clearly shows the thracian lands east of troy and north of the hittities in Anatolia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites

East of the Thracians where the "fabricated" Eneti , who where not Eneti but came from the modern city of Samsun which in ancient times was called Enete
 
The Phoenicians also appeared just after the destruction of Troy in 1200 BCE. However the Phoenicians were not Indo-European and never had interests around the Black Sea. Besides, Phoenician religion, culture and artefacts do not resemble Trojan ones.

It is well known that the Greeks under Agamemnon destroyed Troy and took commercial control over the Aegean and the Black Sea. But if the Trojans also had trade routes around the Mediterranean, then their disappearance would have left a vacuum that the Phoenicians quickly filled.

Where myceneans actually Greeks or was the first Greeks the, Dorians that replaced the Mycenaeans?
There where Mycenaean lands in Anatolia at the time of the Trojan war. The war was about control of the black sea for trade.
 

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