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Thread: Distribution of haplogroup J1 in Italy (Boattini et al.)

  1. #51
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    Yes you are right, but you cannot expect people to go from ignorance to PHD level of knowledge on J1 subclades particularly when it is uncommon in Europe, thought of as being foreign, Jewish, Arabian and so on. No-one says R1b is foreign as it originated in Asia well outside Europe and was not found in Europe until the late Neolithic and Metal ages. There is a lot of prejudice also. Your subclade is particularly Jewish, there are subclades of J1 that are Arabian in origin, any European with your subclade or an Arabian one definitely have a Jewish or Arabian paternal ancestor, but so far those Europeans are not common. I am going by the J1 project at FTDNA and the place of origin of the paternal ancestor.

    Most studies are laughable using SNPs which are private or sticking with M267 or P58 as if they mean something. M267 is at least 16,000 years old or older, so there are many, many downstream SNPs, P58 is by one grain of sand on the beach of J1 phylogenetic tree and not particularly significant of anything.

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    I am in Sicily now. I want to collect samples here . Am J1 M267 myself. Trying to find some university or business to fund this project.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnoone View Post
    I am in Sicily now. I want to collect samples here . Am J1 M267 myself. Trying to find some university or business to fund this project.
    Good luck and keep us posted.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Crappy work.

    You didn't add the data from Capell et al 2009.



    Also I've done the calculations and the frequency of J1 for Campania is 5.5% without the Capelli et al 2009 data, and 4.3% with the complete data, and not 6% as on there.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1
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    Question

    Where in Boattini does this come from?


    • In Central Tuscany, 3 out of 41 samples were J1 (7%).

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoFan View Post
    Where in Boattini does this come from?


    • In Central Tuscany, 3 out of 41 samples were J1 (7%).
    This is the data from this Boattini study for Central Italy:
    Central Italy

    In La Spezia-Massa, north-west Tuscany, 0 out of 24 samples are J1 (0%).

    In Pistoia, central-north Tuscany, 1 out of 13 samples are J1e (7.5%).

    In Grosetto-Siena, southern Tuscany, 3 out of 86 samples are J1 (3.5%), including one J1e sample.

    In Foligno, central-east Umbria, 2 out of 37 samples are J1 (5.5%), including one J1e sample.

    In Macerata, central-east Marche, 1 out of 40 samples are J1 (2.5%).

    This is the problem with this study...good idea to use regional surnames, best resolution of clades we've seen so far for Italy, but perhaps because of budgetary constraints, impossibly small samples, so small that it's probably not a good idea to take the percentages all that seriously. That 7.5% figure comes from a grand total of 13 samples.

    The averages Maciamo has computed are probably the best bet for now, although the subclade resolution or rather the lack of it means that in the case of Y dna "J1" it tells us almost nothing about when or with whom it arrived.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoFan View Post
    Where in Boattini does this come from?


    • In Central Tuscany, 3 out of 41 samples were J1 (7%).
    As Maciamo wrote, that's from Capelli et al. (2007).

    A different result from Capelli et al. (2009):

    in Central Tuscany, 2.4% of J1 was found out of 41 samples

    in Tuscany-Latium border, 0% of J1 was found out of 79 samples



    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947089/

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    Some of these numbers from Di Giacomo et al. (2002), Brisighelli et al. (2012) and Capelli et al. (2007), are wrong because Maciamo is adding up J1 and J* which are two different haplogroups.

    Counting only J1 from Capelli et al. (2009) and Boattini et al. :

    The total frequency of J1 for Tuscany is 2% (5*100/243).

    The total frequency of J1 for Campania is 3.5% (4*100/120).

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3

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    Thanks for the replies. I don't yet have enough credits to award any clout.

    I am a little confused by the old notation J* and wonder, is it obsolete?

    In Computer Science (database notation) and certain branches of Mathematics a * usually collects all variations, but I am sensing that this is not the case in Genetics?

  10. #60
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3

    Ethnic group
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    In Pistoia, central-north Tuscany, 1 out of 13 samples are J1e (7.5%).

    My grandparents came from a tiny village (near Lucca and Pisa) within 50 KM of Pistoia,
    and in PISTOIA my surname is found with very high frequency.

    But according to the results with 23andMe, I am definitely J1 J-M267, not J1e.

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