Extent of L1029 prior to the Slavic Migrations?

If you think L1029 is lusitanian, what gives you this idea?

saxons in ancient times where basically on the north sea, the area i imagine you think in "east germany" it is was ancient semones germanic people, ...these became the alemanni os SW germany....maybe cherbusi germans ?!?

The pan-illyrian ideas of 30 years ago when lusitanian was thought to be these types of people is raising eyebrows again....i am unsure.

I have only seen 1 in italy, 1 in greece and 1 in bulgaria

What about pomerania.....is there any there?

I'm talking about the lusatian culture, not lusitanian people.

Here is a link for the Lusatian Culture: Here

Perhaps you confused them with the Lusitanians?


EDIT: There seems to be about 3-4 L1029 matches in Pomerania
 
I'm talking about the lusatian culture, not lusitanian people.

Here is a link for the Lusatian Culture: Here

Perhaps you confused them with the Lusitanians?


EDIT: There seems to be about 3-4 L1029 matches in Pomerania

yes , that's what I meant...bad spelling by me.

Pomeranians .....maybe.....face-urn culture ..........baltic people, some historians say they where Karelians, ............many migrated to northern USA, usually with the swedes to Minnesota
 
yes , that's what I meant...bad spelling by me.

Pomeranians .....maybe.....face-urn culture ..........baltic people, some historians say they where Karelians, ............many migrated to northern USA, usually with the swedes to Minnesota

Here is a quote from the wiki

The Pomeranian culture, also Pomeranian or Pomerelian Face Urn culture was an Iron Age culture with origins in Pomerania, northern Poland, which eventually covered most of today's Poland. About 650 BC, it evolved from the Lusatian culture between the lower Vistula and Parseta rivers

So L1029 would have been present among them. The Pomeranian Face Urn culture evolved from the Lusatian culture.

West of the Pomeranian Face Urn culture was the Billendorfer culture you can read about here

The Billendorfer culture also evolved from the Lusatian culture, but was absorbed culturally by the Jastorfer culture (here is a link talking about that, on pg. 298)

So yes, If L1029 is in fact present in the Lusatian culture and it's offshoots, then I would imagine tribes like the Semnones to carry it. Also, are there any records of where the Semnones are from originally? I understand most of the Germanic tribes are recorded by the Romans as coming from somewhere in Scandinavia.
 
Here is a quote from the wiki



So L1029 would have been present among them. The Pomeranian Face Urn culture evolved from the Lusatian culture.

West of the Pomeranian Face Urn culture was the Billendorfer culture you can read about here

The Billendorfer culture also evolved from the Lusatian culture, but was absorbed culturally by the Jastorfer culture (here is a link talking about that, on pg. 298)

So yes, If L1029 is in fact present in the Lusatian culture and it's offshoots, then I would imagine tribes like the Semnones to carry it. Also, are there any records of where the Semnones are from originally? I understand most of the Germanic tribes are recorded by the Romans as coming from somewhere in Scandinavia.

map of ancient german tribes

notice NO germans in southern Germany



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I am M17 R-Z92 and I am from the republic of Macedonia, does this coincide with any historical movement of people towards my region of ancestry?
 
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Recently received my Full Genomes Yelite results. I am confirmed by Admins(and per preliminary placement on Yfull) to be L1029*, negative for all known downstream mutations. 25 unique SNPs. I only had 3 close matches in FGC. Sadly they were still far. TMRCA between us 2350ypb. The 2 closest matches were from Germany. One(a little further) was a Russian from the Urals. Michal suspects(but uncertain given the instability of the SNP) to form a novel clade upstream of YP263. My placement seems to be at the top of L1029*. My closest match seems to be a Y-SEQ Albanian, TMRCA 1000ypb. I hope to test him(assuming he agrees) to see how the cluster forms between us.

From my understanding each L1029* individual forms their own cluster and have a TMRCA with eachother of 2000ypb. So I may or may not share a SNP with existing Yfull samples that are L1029*. I know its most probable to have arrived with the Avaro-Slavs that invaded Byzantium. However, given the infancy of the science, I feel its too early to make broad conclusions.

From what I see, Basal L1029* like my own seems more widespread than more downstream L1029, which is typical of the migration patterns. Given I lack all the SNPs associated with the migration events from what we currently know, I suspect it could have been Ostrogoths, Bastarnae, Volga Bulgars and even Varangians.

As I understand it, Varangians were hired from Scandinavia to the Baltics and even Russia. Perhaps a Varangian from Kievan Rus carried a more basal L1029* clade to the Balkans. There is also the case as one mentioned earlier, Pomeranian Vikings could well have settled in England and even in the North of France. Perhaps trace ammounts were carried later by Normans, who had a huge impact on Albania, and its tribal customs. They even carried a campaign through my village against the Venetians where they were defeated.

There were also earlier German soldiers stationed in my village, supposedly in 900AD. So it could even be an East German that settled. Even Bastarnae are a possibility. They were still active in the early middle ages, and they expanded throughout east europe before cutting through the East Balkans further west into Macedonia. They could have easily absorbed L1029 in their travels.

I see any number of scenarios. Sadly people are quick to go to tunnel vision and say it only arrived with the great migration Sklavenoi, and not possible other avenues. You have early Antes mercs hired by Rome to fight the Huns that could have carried it. Or even early Slavic farmers prior to the migration that settled in Greece.

L1029.png


Are there any recently published scientific material on M458-L1029? How much do we actually know about it to be certain of who it did or did not come with?
 
I am also interested in L-1029, since I ran my 23andMe raw data through the Morley Subclade Predictor and got L-1029 as my most likely match. My paternal line originates in Germany. It seems like an interesting para-Slavic group.
 
Dito, Joey37. I ran my father's Ancestry results through the Morley Subclade Predictor and also was predicted to be L-1029. His father, my grandfather, has taken the y-37 at FTDNA and got R-M198 as the predicted haplogroup. My greatgreatgrandfather originally came from the Upper Palatinate in Bavaria, 50 miles from Pilsen (Czech Republic).

I'm open for any suggestions (via pm!) on which test I should order next.
Also, I'm looking forward to reading more about this haplogroup. So, if there are any new insights about its origins, please reply to this thread!
 
Why is BuLGaria not in the calculations!

Definitely not what you call modern Germanic. Possibly it is East Germanic like Vandals or Goths. However they left in great numbers, so we should be able to have some of L1029 in Iberia, Odessa or Sicily, but have none.
It really looks Western Slavic same as M458.
The only thing that bothers me is complete lack of both HG in supposed birthplace of Slavs, in Pripet marshes around Czarnolas (Black forest) area. I circled it on M458 map. What the heck happened?! Lol.

View attachment 5900View attachment 5901
Why is BuLGaria not in the calculations! I2a1 and E-v13 are predominant in South Eastern Europe and also "Slavic"! Who said the homeland of the so called Slavs was the River Pripyat Region! I read Getae (who were Thracians, that is of the BaLKans) was the old name of the S(c)laveni. BuLGarian YDNA (male) is closest to that of Latinized Romanians and of Hellenes (Hellenized) and MtDNA (female) is closest to that of Italians, Hellenes and Ukrainians (aka Rusyns up to the 17th cent.). It looks like the original S(c)laveni were from the BaLKans and went North for various reasons all the way to the BaLTic Sea, some may have went North East and become BuLGars/ BuRGars, for example due to the Roman raids, which dor example levelled the Epirus with the ground and it was devastated, who later returned and regained control as Barbarians and particularly Sclaveno - BuLGars/ BuRGars!!! BuLGarian YDNA is in fact the same as that of Romanians, Northern Greeks and Albanians, that is the S(c)laveno - BuLGars/ BuRGars must be of local origin!!! I found this map showing R1a L1029 as predominating in and around BuLGaria - who can confirm that!?
 

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Why is BuLGaria not in the calculations! I2a1 and E-v13 are predominant in South Eastern Europe and also "Slavic"! Who said the homeland of the so called Slavs was the River Pripyat Region! I read Getae (who were Thracians, that is of the BaLKans) was the old name of the S(c)laveni. BuLGarian YDNA (male) is closest to that of Latinized Romanians and of Hellenes (Hellenized) and MtDNA (female) is closest to that of Italians, Hellenes and Ukrainians (aka Rusyns up to the 17th cent.). It looks like the original S(c)laveni were from the BaLKans and went North for various reasons all the way to the BaLTic Sea, some may have went North East and become BuLGars/ BuRGars, for example due to the Roman raids, which dor example levelled the Epirus with the ground and it was devastated, who later returned and regained control as Barbarians and particularly Sclaveno - BuLGars/ BuRGars!!! BuLGarian YDNA is in fact the same as that of Romanians, Northern Greeks and Albanians, that is the S(c)laveno - BuLGars/ BuRGars must be of local origin!!! I found this map showing R1a L1029 as predominating in and around BuLGaria - who can confirm that!?

I am pretty sure that is an old map and doesn't take every sample to date into account. As far as my understanding goes, L1029 is most commonly found in Poland, Germany, and South-West Belarus. Highest diversity of L1029 clades are also to be found in these areas(which is usually an indicator of possible origin). L1029 in the Balkans is predominantly YP417 and YP263. YP417 is more dominant in Bulgarian than YP263 but both are represented. As far as 1029 being Thracian I doubt it. Currently there is no ancient ydna for L1029 or even M458 to confirm its situation pre-500AD. The only L1029 sample we have is from the middle ages 11th century cemetary at Usedom where a Slavic admixed German was found(if I recall correctly). We need ancient samples to be sure. Perhaps Proto-Slavs were a mix of Getae and other tribes, however theres no way to know without ancient remains what they carried. So far the only R1a discovered in Thracian samples in Bulgaria was a unrelated(most probably extinct) clade of R1a-Z93. A distantly related cousin clade under M417.
 

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