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View Poll Results: Where did haplogroup T first originate

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  • The levantine coast (Lebanon, Israel,Jordan)

    4 16.00%
  • The Persian gulf region ( southwestern Iran)

    10 40.00%
  • The pamir knot (Afghanistan/Tajikistan) frontier

    2 8.00%
  • By the Red Sea (Saudi Arabian coast.)

    3 12.00%
  • Other

    6 24.00%
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Thread: Where did haplogroup T first originate

  1. #1
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Country: Italy



    Where did haplogroup T first originate

    Where did hg T originate in your opinion

  2. #2
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - Z19945
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    M184 ( T ) originated in the Persian gulf region and
    M70 ( T1 ) originated in the Pamir mountains in Tajikstan
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

  3. #3
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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    It's pointless to vote since there is not enough data now to answer that kind of question. Actually we cannot even tell where well studied haplogroups originated, even haplogroup G, I, J or R1b.

    All I can say is that haplogroup T most probably played a role in the early diffusion of agriculture from the Levant to Europe and West Asia. Just before the Neolithic, hg T would surely have been present in the Levant and Egypt, but that doesn't mean it originated there tens of thousands of years earlier.
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  4. #4
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy


  5. #5
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a4o

    Ethnic group
    Down Under
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    It's pointless to vote since there is not enough data now to answer that kind of question. Actually we cannot even tell where well studied haplogroups originated, even haplogroup G, I, J or R1b.

    All I can say is that haplogroup T most probably played a role in the early diffusion of agriculture from the Levant to Europe and West Asia. Just before the Neolithic, hg T would surely have been present in the Levant and Egypt, but that doesn't mean it originated there tens of thousands of years earlier.
    I think T went from hunter-gatherers to early farmers in europe............the ancestor of T which is K and found in australian aboriginals have always been hunter-gatherers, ...........even after 40000 years

    40000 years of non agriculture left them with 3 million population .............says something about agriculture.


    BTW, the high T in central France ........where can I find the data for this?

  6. #6
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Country: Italy



    There is no high T in central FranceFrance

  7. #7
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    There is no high T in central FranceFrance
    Maciano ( rocky ) has 4.5 in Auvergne France

  8. #8
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    according to the map i posted, hg t has highs in eastern iran and tip of united arab emirates as well as a power core in southern iraq that extends well into north/central iraq (some 13% of iraqis are positive for t-m70 on a national level that makes some 7 million iraqis out of 35 million positive for t-m70.) this high extends well into eastern turkey's kurdish regions where we see another small high as well. the southern iraqi high extends well into parts of saudi arabia and eventually into egypt/horn of africa as well. kuwait is also very within the southern iraqi t high. we know its found in eastern turkish kurds (13%) many studies on assyrians show 13-15% T in assyrians towards anatolia, iraq , iran, southwestern iran (ancient elam).

  9. #9
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    seems that is found in 13-15% of assyrians, 20% of jordanians, 10% of egyptians, 13% of iraqis , even 12% of ethiopians

  10. #10
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    @adamo

    why are you not using
    T1a1a L208
    instead of L299 ??

    as you are positive for L208

  11. #11
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    im positive to L299+ according to the genographic project which is equivalent to L162+.but after transfering to ftdna and reviewing what i had been tested for, i saw i was L208+ as well, i havent been tested for p77 or p317 etc.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    im positive to L299+ according to the genographic project which is equivalent to L162+.but after transfering to ftdna and reviewing what i had been tested for, i saw i was L208+ as well, i havent been tested for p77 or p317 etc.
    as I said , you are no longer L299 , you are L208 which further along the branch. That is how you would be recognized by genetic scholars

  13. #13
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    i know, genographic project says im l299 but i tested positive for l208 according to ftdna, i actually posted the sequence a few pages back.

  14. #14
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    since hg T didnt challenge the Pamir knot and considering hg L went south through Pakistan to southern India where L still dominates today, wouldn't it be good to test uzbekistan , tajikistan , turkmenistan , afghanistan for hgT?

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    I would like to bring attention to the old map I had posted just above on this thread; the high of T on this map coincides well with a straight of Hormuz origin for T, this makes it a good candidate for the original region from which it spread to Horn of Africa/Zanzibar/Madagascar based on what we know about the prince of Shiraz (those that have been reading my posts on T know what I'm referring to lol).

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    Ftdna only shows a T-M184* from a Turk in gaziantep, turkey, on the border with Syria. The "increased T resolution phylogeny" study everyone knows about from biomes also states that T-M184* was only present in a Syrian (1% of the 5% T total found in the study). M70 basal is found in a Turk from Adana (again, southern turkey) and a central Iranian from the Yazd region. The next clade in order (m70+, L1255+,L1254+) is found in westernmost Iran in bandar Mashahr, not far from the Tigris valley region.

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6332545.stm

    Interesting article: "T is found in more than 7% of the population in Somalia, Egypt, Oman and Iraq".

    phoenicians of Lebanon theory for Mediterranean spread.

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    According to this study T was detected in 2% of Turkish and 1.5% of Georgian males. 4% of men from the Atlantic Madeira islands and 2% of Portuguese men have it. The frequencies were slightly higher for spaniards (3%). Frequencies were even lower in morocco (1%). Tunisia had less than 1% and Sardinia had 1%. Cameroon had 2%. Frequencies were just as low in the Czech Republic and Greece. It was detected though in 5% of 1. Druze of the levant , 2. Palestinians, 3. Ethiopians and 4. Wairak of Tanzania, making it a tad more present there, as is the case in the Atlantic Madeira islands. It was present in 7% of both Egyptian and Iraqi males. The highest frequencies detected were 8% of Omani males and 10% of Somalis.

  19. #19
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    Ftdna only shows a T-M184* from a Turk in gaziantep, turkey, on the border with Syria. The "increased T resolution phylogeny" study everyone knows about from biomes also states that T-M184* was only present in a Syrian (1% of the 5% T total found in the study). M70 basal is found in a Turk from Adana (again, southern turkey) and a central Iranian from the Yazd region. The next clade in order (m70+, L1255+,L1254+) is found in westernmost Iran in bandar Mashahr, not far from the Tigris valley region.
    i already provided you information on this person, he is an armenian from the shores of the black sea. I even gave you his name.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Map of hg T I found https://ce40fac3-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites....attredirects=0

    What do u think of this map and the proposed slave market route migrations of shirazi Persians/Omani Arabs from the port of Hormuz region? I didn't construe this map myself oddly enough

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    The link isn't working; anyways it's posted above it works there, post #4 , sorry about that

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    All in all, if the 18% T Sciacca and 16% T Ibiza statistics are correct, coupled with geno 2.0's 15-20% of Jordanians and the above study's 5% of Palestinians and Madeira islanders + 13% of northern Corsicans and 25% on Chios, then we seriously start getting the Phoenicians of Lebanon/Canaan as a heavyweight contender for the spread of T across the Mediterranean world. Then you get 10% Cadiz; the only abnormality is the virtual absence of T in modern day Lebanon, unless you have a statistic or two you can pull out to prove me wrong ; ). The study I checked found abnormally high T in Somalians (10%), Omanis (8%), Egyptians and Iraqis (7%) and surprisingly Druze, Palestinians, Madeira islanders, Ethiopians and Wairak of Tanzania as well (5%).

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    I know multiple canary islanders positive for T (even T1a1a3) , 16% on Ibiza are T and 5% of men on Madeira islands are T. Personally, I don't know who could have introduced 5% T in Madeira islanders other than the Phoenicians who we know sailed passed Gibraltar, even as far as the Atlantic every now and then. Unless there was some type of Jewish expedition to the region, which as of now I doubt. Also, the ancient Phoenician colony of Cadiz, sort of a 'half-way point" between Ibiza and Canary/Madeira islands, has 10% T as well. When we combine north Corsica's 12-13% T with the 18% T in Sciacca (western Sicily) a pattern starts to appear more or less.

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    All those particular coastal Mediterranean regions align perfectly with the ancient presence of Phoenician colonies. Ibiza, for example, has the highest "national" frequencies of T in Europe, far out-beating Sicily's combined 6% T. Ibiza has about 17% T. This entire island was heavily settled by the Phoenicians and was called "Ibossim" in the ancient Phoenician tongue. It was sort of a small Phoenician island-nation for quite some time before the Phoenicians fell under Assyrian pressure in their mainland, after this the Greeks took control. A good indicator of ancient Phoenician presence would be production of purple dye.

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    http://www.u.arizona.edu/~flmendez/p...2011_suppl.pdf

    Sile, would you be kind enough to explain to me what the interpretations/results on the fifth page of this study mean? I don't understand it.

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