Map of Germanic paternal lineages

[1L1JA]

Have you seen what Maciamo had to say in this thread?

Indeed there is 2% Germanic R1b in Serbia. I assumed according to the R1b-S21 map that the northern R1b subclades were totally absent (in favor to the South Eastern R1b). If you see Maciamo, well, recommend an update on R-S21.

[Fire Haired]

Indeed there is 2% Germanic R1b in Serbia. I assumed according to the R1b-S21 map that the northern R1b subclades were totally absent (in favor to the South Eastern R1b). If you see Maciamo, well, recommend an update on R-S21.

where did u hear R1b S21 is 2% in Serbia because in maciamo's map he includes any areas with 1-5% but most of Serbia was not included. many areas with I1 did not have any R1b s21.

[1L1JA]

where did u hear R1b S21 is 2% in Serbia because in maciamo's map he includes any areas with 1-5% but most of Serbia was not included. many areas with I1 did not have any R1b s21.

I can not post or quote a link, so you have to see the link in post #24 from sparkey in Maciamo's thread (see the study "Serbian Y-DNA by Regueiro et al"). If you then google a pdf or image to this study you may find a tree about the serbian groups. Or try it in this way (if the moderation will allow it): w w w.dodaj.rs/f/N/is/3snt1Qj1/1/haplogroupsydnaserbia.jpg

[Jackson]

This seems like a pretty good general picture, only issue i would have thought is the 'local' spike of R1b-U106 in the Netherlands and Frisia which may make it slightly disproportionate compared to autosomal genetics, but then again the same could be said about I1 for example, so this shouldn't be an issue really.

It's quite accurate in regards to England - consistent with POBI which found most of England was also about 50-60% Germanic, with the remainder being a mix of Irish-like and northern French-like DNA (So i guess mainly a mixture of Insular and Central European Celtic peoples, probably explained at least partly by the migration of Belgic tribes prior to Roman arrival).

Although i am a little confused as to why Lincolnshire is slightly less...By all rights it's probably the most Germanic place in the whole country, or one of the most.

[mbw1986]

Excellent map. Great synthesis. Bravo.
-Mbw

[Fire Haired]

Excellent map. Great synthesis. Bravo.
-Mbw

are u talking about maciamo's map or my copy and paste of r1b 21.

[mbw1986]

Maciamo's Germanic map.

[Fire Haired]

Maciamo's Germanic map.

thanks for the info

[tjlowery87]

This seems like a pretty good general picture, only issue i would have thought is the 'local' spike of R1b-U106 in the Netherlands and Frisia which may make it slightly disproportionate compared to autosomal genetics, but then again the same could be said about I1 for example, so this shouldn't be an issue really.

It's quite accurate in regards to England - consistent with POBI which found most of England was also about 50-60% Germanic, with the remainder being a mix of Irish-like and northern French-like DNA (So i guess mainly a mixture of Insular and Central European Celtic peoples, probably explained at least partly by the migration of Belgic tribes prior to Roman arrival).
.

I agree....

[tjlowery87]

knordvedt believes there is only 30-40% ydna in england

[tjlowery87]

any response to knordvedt estimates

[sparkey]

any response to knordvedt estimates

They sound about right for England as a whole, although some areas certainly reach higher than 30-40% (like Norfolk, for example) and some certainly drop lower (like Cornwall).

[tjlowery87]

thanks sparkey,i wonder what the percentage might be if you had to estimate women who have fathers with Germanic ydna?

[Jackson]

They sound about right for England as a whole, although some areas certainly reach higher than 30-40% (like Norfolk, for example) and some certainly drop lower (like Cornwall).

Actually, put like that that does seem about right for the whole of the country. Some parts of the west and especially the far south-west as you say are predominantly Celtic in ancestry. Although most of south, east and central England is 50%+ (e.g where L21 drops to 10-15% or so) a lot of the fringe areas are probably more like 75%+ Celtic, and are still part of England.

[tjlowery87]

so Yorkshire down to kent is the most Germanic with about 50 plus%,basically like the people of brittish isla map says?

[Maciamo]

Indeed there is 2% Germanic R1b in Serbia. I assumed according to the R1b-S21 map that the northern R1b subclades were totally absent (in favor to the South Eastern R1b). If you see Maciamo, well, recommend an update on R-S21.

It is true that there is very little data about R1b-S21 in the Balkans at the moment. In all logic R1b-S21 should be found within the 1-5% range in many places in Southeast Europe considering that I1 is found everywhere and I2b1 in many locations too.

[tjlowery87]

maciamo,what is your opinion on the amount of Germanic dna in England?

[Maciamo]

maciamo,what is your opinion on the amount of Germanic dna in England?

What is your question more specifically ?

[tjlowery87]

i was wondering how much y dna you think is in England that is germanic

[tjlowery87]

if you had any estimate between the east and the west of Germanic dna in england

[Maciamo]

i was wondering how much y dna you think is in England that is germanic

About 50% (+-5%). It could be more if you count non-Germanic haplogroups that came with Germanic people. It is very likely that the Anglo-Saxons carried a small percentage of Neolithic lineages like E1b1b, G2a, J or T.

[tjlowery87]

thanks maciamo

[tjlowery87]

my theory after talking to seaveral different folks on the subject of Germanic ydna in England is
at the least I would say that 50% of east England (central to east) is Germanic and that England as a whole would be about 25 to 40% Germanic,this would also go well with the people of the brittish isles map.At the most I would say about 50% in all Germanic.does that sound about right?

[tjlowery87]

so what has changed over the years that has made England look more Germanic?if I remember correctly sykes(I think)use to say that there was bearly any Germanic dna in England,but know it seems its around 50%, so what changed?.......as all ways thanks for your replys.

[apulomilan]

Hi Maciamo. Thank you for this great idea of yours that is Eupedia.
Two notations:
- I expected that in some zones of Umbria and Toscana the Lombard impact was as high as in north-western Italy at least: in fact the existence of Duchy of Tuscia and the Duchy of Spoleto suggested a significant possible concentration of lombard population (i.e. not limited to soldiers and their families) in those areas;
- the map of higher germanic paternal lineages in continental Italy seems to roughly correspond to the a map of the towns which have a reference to lombard "fara" in there names, as to confirm that in those areas arrived entire clans, not only soldiers.

One question: what you think could be a way to distinguish Goth influence on paternal lineages from the Lombard one? (notice that I think that Goth influence on "italian" is far lower of the Lombard one, as the historical sources seem to confirm that after the notorious gothic war very few Goths survived or remained in Italy).