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Thread: Map of Germanic paternal lineages

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjlowery87 View Post
    so basically England is about 60 percent Germanic and 40 percent italo-celtic?
    Pretty much. The most extensive genetic study of the British Isles has shown up basically this.
    'Wise men speak only of what they know' - J.R.R. Tolkien

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Df27(Spain)
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Y DNA does not tell ur full ancestry just ur direct male line. I would agree though that England is mainly decended from Germanic people from around Netherlands and Denmark since they have such high amounts of blonde hair then compared to for example Ireland.

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    Very Interesting map. Do you know what regions exactly were tested in Slovakia?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    Pretty much. The most extensive genetic study of the British Isles has shown up basically this.
    I guess I expected something like that but it's strange to actually see it.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
    Italian
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    Some correction for Italy. I1 is 14% in Molise plus other 7% of I2 and probably the U106 is also high. U106 hotspot is 12% in Catania and it is not reported both in the map.
    http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/italian_dna.shtml

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
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    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    This seems like a pretty good general picture, only issue i would have thought is the 'local' spike of R1b-U106 in the Netherlands and Frisia which may make it slightly disproportionate compared to autosomal genetics, but then again the same could be said about I1 for example, so this shouldn't be an issue really.

    It's quite accurate in regards to England - consistent with POBI which found most of England was also about 50-60% Germanic, with the remainder being a mix of Irish-like and northern French-like DNA (So i guess mainly a mixture of Insular and Central European Celtic peoples, probably explained at least partly by the migration of Belgic tribes prior to Roman arrival).

    Although i am a little confused as to why Lincolnshire is slightly less...By all rights it's probably the most Germanic place in the whole country, or one of the most.

    it seems as a whole a sensible map - just some points:
    all the Y-R1b-U106 and Y-I223 and even Y-I1 are not to be put on account of the only Germanics in far eastern Europe (N-Russia), maube Estonia too
    Y-I223 in N-W Europe and the Isles can have had other origins than the only germanic one -
    in the Netherlands, Frisia has AND more Y-R-U106 AND more Y-I1 than other parts of the country (southern Netherlands have even lesser than dutch average)
    in details, central-east Wales had surely more germanic Y-haplos than the remnant, even in the southern towns (surely not an hazard, spite the same number of "welsh names" than other central regions of Wales if not more, this central-east welsh region had more depigmented hairs than others, and the Welsh language border line makes like a concave curve there, this little part having abandoned welsh language even before Gwent/Monmouth (S-E) and Denbych/Denbigh, N-E very anglicized today

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-S185
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    New map with the hotspot of Molise and Catania province.


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    Dear Friends!

    I1 and I2 are not germanic not either indoeuroean.They are indigenous europeans assimilated by the newcomers.I1 was found in neolithic Hungary unike R1a and R1b.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    I wonder why there is so much of Germanic Y-DNA in areas (red borders below) from which Germans were expelled after WW2:



    Most of people who live there today, came from Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Eastern Poland, Southern Poland.

    Check this thread:

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...entral-Poland)



    So did ethnic Poles from places like Belarus had so much of Germanic Y-DNA - or who had it ???

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    I wonder why there is so much of Germanic Y-DNA in areas (red borders below) from which Germans were expelled after WW2:
    Easy answer. Y-DNA frequencies usually look at the oldest known patrilineal ancestor's place of origin, which can be anything from 100 to 500+ years ago. Therefore Y-DNA frequencies and maps (on this site and others, including 23andMe) represent pre-industrial distributions, not present ones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hauteville View Post
    New map with the hotspot of Molise and Catania province.
    The map is still wrong since Latium should be in 10-20% range. I1 alone is ~9%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    I wonder why there is so much of Germanic Y-DNA in areas (red borders below) from which Germans were expelled after WW2:
    Might have been much higher prior? Early anthropologists classified both England and Latvia as 60% Germanic. So Maciamo's map should match Gunther's map, which it mostly does.





    It's possible Stalin sent a lot of people who had been classified as "Nordic" and naturalized by the Nazis to Soviet concentration camps. Alternatively poor sample size is distorting the map. Especially I1 appears to be lacking in Latvia.

    The Nazis may have been more thorough in their measurements than Gunther, most information has likely been destroyed but some is still available on Wikipedia under Generalplan Ost.

    It also appears that Gunther did not classify the R1a in Norway as Germanic and remarked on the presence of an East-European population in Western Norway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expredel View Post
    Might have been much higher prior? Early anthropologists classified both England and Latvia as 60% Germanic. So Maciamo's map should match Gunther's map, which it mostly does.

    Looks more like the Germans who made that map considered England to be roughly equal parts "Nordic" (red) and "Mediterranean" (blue).

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    The new correct map.

    I've added the data from this recent study, including the hotstop of 25-35% of I1 in eastern Latium.

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...cient-genetics


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by giuseppe rossi View Post
    The map is still wrong since Latium should be in 10-20% range. I1 alone is ~9%.
    I updated the haplogroup frequencies for the Latium 5 days ago using the data from Messina et al. 2015. I didn't have time to update all the maps since then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drac II View Post
    Looks more like the Germans who made that map considered England to be roughly equal parts "Nordic" (red) and "Mediterranean" (blue).
    But that is correct. British and Irish people do have quite a lot of Atlantic or Mediterranean admixture. In fact this map is surprisingly accurate for something done in 1922, well before genetics existed.

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    I have now updated the Latium frequencies on all the Y-DNA maps. Here is the one about Germanic lineages.


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    It lacks the hotspots of Catania (U106) and Cosenza (M223).

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    Quote Originally Posted by giuseppe rossi View Post
    The new correct map.

    I've added the data from this recent study, including the hotstop of 25-35% of I1 in eastern Latium.

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...cient-genetics

    Cosenza has 6% of M223 as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have now updated the Latium frequencies on all the Y-DNA maps. Here is the one about Germanic lineages.

    Ok thanks.

    Few tips for you.

    1. There is a 6% of M223 in Cosenza, so Northern-Central Calabria should be in the 5-10% range.

    2. Molise should be in in the 30-40% range. This is from your own page.

    "The DNA samples from Campobasso in Molise and Benevento in Campania can give a good idea of what proportion of each Germanic haplogroup the Lombards carried."

    " Among the Germanic haplogroups identified in Campobasso by Boattini et al. (2013) there were 16% of I1, 10.5% of R1b-U106 and 3.5% of I2a2a. "

    http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/italian_dna.shtml

    This is Molise.


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    Quote Originally Posted by giuseppe rossi View Post
    Ok thanks.

    Few tips for you.

    1. There is a 6% of M223 in Cosenza, so Northern-Central Calabria should be in the 5-10% range.

    2. Molise should be in in the 30-40% range. This is from your own page.

    "The DNA samples from Campobasso in Molise and Benevento in Campania can give a good idea of what proportion of each Germanic haplogroup the Lombards carried."

    " Among the Germanic haplogroups identified in Campobasso by Boattini et al. (2013) there were 16% of I1, 10.5% of R1b-U106 and 3.5% of I2a2a. "
    Boattini 2013 is not the only study with data for Molise. The average for I1 + I2-M223 + R1b-S21 is just under 30% for Molise.

    What data did you use for Cosenza ? Boattini 2013 has 0% of I2 for Cosenza+Crotone. My average for all studies on Calabria has only 0.5% of I2-M223 in Calabria.

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    Maciamo these sources are in Sarno et al.Cosenza has 6% of I-M223, Catania 12% of U106 and other 2% of I-M223 as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    But that is correct. British and Irish people do have quite a lot of Atlantic or Mediterranean admixture. In fact this map is surprisingly accurate for something done in 1922, well before genetics existed.
    Dinaric matches I2a. The Mediterranean race matches the combination of R1b-S11 and E1b1b. The Ostische / Alpine race matches R1b-S28 plus western R1a. These are peculiar combinations. N1, r1a-Z280, J1 and J2 appear to be fairly well matched. Could be that the Y chromosome influences the male skull shape as that was the primary thing they were measuring.

    Based on Gunther's data we'd expect hot spots in Central Spain, Central Italy (confirmed), Yugoslavia, Kurdistan, and Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Boattini 2013 is not the only study with data for Molise. The average for I1 + I2-M223 + R1b-S21 is just under 30% for Molise.
    It's between 20 and 30% for Molise as whole, but Boattini et al found 30-40% of Germanic y-dna lineages in Campobasso alone, which is about 2 thirds of Molise.



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    What data did you use for Cosenza ? Boattini 2013 has 0% of I2 for Cosenza+Crotone. My average for all studies on Calabria has only 0.5% of I2-M223 in Calabria.
    Boattini et al have 37 samples from Cosenza/Crotone/Catanzaro, while Sarno et al. found 6% of M223 in Cosenza alone.



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