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Thread: E1b1b1 / E3b / E-M35 / E-V13 in the UK

  1. #26
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Elliott View Post
    Since my last post i have found i am m-81/M-183, negative for V-13. This is even more rare in Britain. My automosal says im 86% british isles with 96% europe. 2% north african which points to source of the M-183. Berber Roman troops or immigration across the straits?
    If you still have 2% North African it might be more recent, although sometimes a certain sequence proves resistant to recombination. If it is that old, Berber troops are certainly one possibility.

    TheNumerus Maurorum Aurelianorum, were stationed along the wall, for example.


    http://roman-britain.co.uk/places/aballava.htm

    There may have been others.


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    I am a descendant of Andrew Warner from Great Waltham Essex England who immigrated to Massachusetts. I changed my name to Grant. My yDNA is E-M5021 a clad of E-M35. Any Warner’s out there with E-M5021?

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    Country: UK - England



    Hey all.

    I'm E1b1b1a3b L-17 and come from england. I thought this was a rare haplogroup for Britain. Some people say it's a Jewish ancestry but I think mine is not. I'm sure it was brought here by the Romans and also I read that it has communities more common in the balkans.

    23andme told me I was E-m5021 which is just another name for the same haplogroup. But they don't tell you that when you're told the result.

    I've actually seen guys on the forums there worried they may be adopted because they and their father had different haplogroup results. But these two are the same. But I only found this out recently and I'm relieved that it was.

    I've also heard this haplogroup is you d sometimes in the Ukraine as well.

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    Question Question about e-v13 in britain

    My last name is Beesley. I'm from Canada. I just received my Y-DNA analysis from Living DNA. I'm a E-V13 too. I'm a newbie to ancestry genetic testing, but I've also read Bird about the theory of the source of Balkan E-V13 in Britain. It's interesting that the population distribution information I got from my test doesn't even list Britain in the list of populations with E-V13. I'm a little confused because I've read in other places that E-V13 is present in about 5% of British men. Can anyone help me with this apparent discrepancy? Just how rare is E-V13 in Britain? And if so, is it significant in any way? Thanks for any assistance.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    This may interest british people that are EV13. From the bosnian dna project:

    http://bosnjackidnk.com/e-z16988-klimente/

    Subclade E-Z16988 which seems to be the main EV13 of the Albanian Kelmendi tribe also has British people under the name "Smith" showing up.

    Here is a google translated excerpt from the article:

    "Interestingly, the Kliment genetically closer Z16988 to the Germans and the British, than to neighboring Bjelopavici and other Balkan nations. It is most likely that one of the branches of the Illyrian climatic ancestors went to live in the territory of Germany. Most of the E-Z16988 Germans from the southwest of Germany and the British with this haplogroup are being called Smith."
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    This may interest british people that are EV13. From the bosnian dna project:

    http://bosnjackidnk.com/e-z16988-klimente/

    Subclade E-Z16988 which seems to be the main EV13 of the Albanian Kelmendi tribe also has British people under the name "Smith" showing up.

    Here is a google translated excerpt from the article:

    "Interestingly, the Kliment genetically closer Z16988 to the Germans and the British, than to neighboring Bjelopavici and other Balkan nations. It is most likely that one of the branches of the Illyrian climatic ancestors went to live in the territory of Germany. Most of the E-Z16988 Germans from the southwest of Germany and the British with this haplogroup are being called Smith."
    So would it mean that even though its Illyrian it was carried to the Balkans by Germans? Or rather, in the British persons case, would it be from Roman campaigns in the British Isles?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    So would it mean that even though its Illyrian it was carried to the Balkans by Germans? Or rather, in the British persons case, would it be from Roman campaigns in the British Isles?
    I'm not sure since i dont know how accurate their study is, nor how accurate the google translate is. If @Trojet is around maybe he can help explain this

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-M5021
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver.s View Post
    Hey all.

    I'm E1b1b1a3b L-17 and come from england. I thought this was a rare haplogroup for Britain. Some people say it's a Jewish ancestry but I think mine is not. I'm sure it was brought here by the Romans and also I read that it has communities more common in the balkans.

    23andme told me I was E-m5021 which is just another name for the same haplogroup. But they don't tell you that when you're told the result.

    I've actually seen guys on the forums there worried they may be adopted because they and their father had different haplogroup results. But these two are the same. But I only found this out recently and I'm relieved that it was.

    I've also heard this haplogroup is you d sometimes in the Ukraine as well.
    My paternal haplogroup is E-M5021 too.

    My ancestry breakup is:

    Balkan - Greece: 86.2%
    Italian: 9.4%
    Broadly Southern European: 3.6%
    West Asian & North African: 0.6%
    Unassigned: 0.2%

    My ancestry is wholly from the Peloponnesus regions of Arcadia, Achaea and Elis in S Greece. I also have a single Italian ancestor born between 1760 and 1850.

    I have been looking for info on E-M5021 but I can't find anything at all. All I know is it's somehow connected to E1b1b.

    Anyone have any clue?

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    Hi, everyone.

    I ran my Dad's raw DNA file from AncestryDNA through Morley's Y-DNA programme. The result I received was: E1b1b1b1a2-2. I'm really intrigued by this as while we're not from the UK, we're from Ireland. It seems to be a very uncommon haplogroup here.

    My question is: can I trust this result? And I wonder whether many others from Ireland had similar results?

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    Newbie here. I recently had my Y-DNA tested by FamilyTreeDNA, 67 markers, with the result being E-M35 and no matches except just 2 at the 12-marker level.
    I was born in Essex, England, and my earliest-known paternal line ancestor was John Clark (c. 1769-1851), a gardener of Springfield, Essex, England. Unfortunately I have no information about John except that he was born in Essex but not in Springfield (he fell short of the 1851 census by just a couple of months).
    I must admit that I'm puzzled by the absence of matches, and I don't really understand where I might go from here.
    I will add that my FamilyTreeDNA autosomal "Family Finder" results are meaningless to me, whereas those I obtained from Ancestry are much more meaningful and confirm a number of branches of my family tree obtained via traditional genealogical methods (censuses, certificates, etc.)
    I am an experienced family historian (since 1996) but a complete novice with DNA.
    Would welcome any comments.

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    Hi aussienoel! Could you please share your STR marker values? That way we could check your deeper subclade classification and give you a better idea of your paternal ancestry.

    An example:
    12 24 14 10 16-18... etc.

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    Certainly can. I don't really understand why FamilyTreeDNA doesn't give the subclade - seems to me that's what I've paid for... but I can't find it yet.
    Here we go (in order as listed to me):
    DYS393: 11
    DYS390: 25
    DYS19: 13
    DYS391: 10
    DYS385: 16-18
    DYS426: 11
    DYS388: 12
    DYS439: 12
    DYS389-I: 13
    DYS392: 11
    DYS389-II: 30
    DYS458: 15
    DYS459: 9-9-9
    DYS455: 11
    DYS454: 11
    DYS447: 26
    DYS437: 14
    DYS448: 20
    DYS449: 34
    DYS464: 14-14-15-17-17-18
    DYS460: 9
    GATA-H4: 11
    YCAII: 19-21
    DYS456: 17
    DYS607: 12
    DYS576: 15
    DYS570: 19
    CDY:30-30-34
    DYS442: 12
    DYS438: 10
    DYS531: 10
    DYS578: 8
    DYF395S1: 15-15
    DYS590: 8
    DYS537: 11
    DYS641: 10
    DYS472: 8
    DYF406S1: 12
    DYS511: 10
    DYS425: 0
    DYS413: 23-24
    DYS557: 17
    DYS594: 11
    DYS436: 12
    DYS490: 12
    DYS534: 18
    DYS450: 7
    DYS444: 12
    DYS481: 22
    DYS520: 18
    DYS446: 12
    DYS617: 14
    DYS568: 11
    DYS487: 15
    DYS572: 11
    DYS640: 11
    DYS492: 11
    DYS565: 11

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    Thank you! Well the safest way to determine your subclade is through SNP testing and since you did a STR test FTDNA doesn't go beyond E-M35. The STR values can be compared to others however, so results with common values can have their subclades determined with a fair amount of certainty. I would recommend that you join an FTDNA project as project administrators are your best bet for this. One such project is this: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background.


    I'm not an expert on haplogroup E but I'll try to be helpful. Some of your values are quite uncommon, especially DYS393=11, but you should be E1b-V13. That means your paternal ancestor was likely either in Central or in Southeastern Europe during the Bronze Age. The migration to England could have happened any time between then and now, but E1b-V13 movements to the UK have mostly been associated with the Roman period, especially Balkan Legionaries guarding the borders of the Empire. Here's some more info on that: https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...1b_Y-DNA.shtml. Because of those uncommon values, it is difficult to classify you in a deeper subclade, which could have revealed connections more recent than the Roman Empire. If I had to guess it would be either L17 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-L17/) or Z17107 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z17107/), but it's a pretty wild guess right now. Again, I suggest you speak to a project administrator on FTDNA, or if one happens to read this here, maybe they can offer more info.

    Keep in mind that this is just only the ancestry of your paternal line, so genealogical relations with people who don't share that same ancestor will go unnoticed.

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    Perhaps you can answer my question. FTDNA recommends that I test for two SNPs - Y2491 and L117. Does that seem to be appropriate?

    I find the FTDNA website very clumsy to navigate at this stage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whatcom2238 View Post
    My last name is Beesley. I'm from Canada. I just received my Y-DNA analysis from Living DNA. I'm a E-V13 too. I'm a newbie to ancestry genetic testing, but I've also read Bird about the theory of the source of Balkan E-V13 in Britain. It's interesting that the population distribution information I got from my test doesn't even list Britain in the list of populations with E-V13. I'm a little confused because I've read in other places that E-V13 is present in about 5% of British men. Can anyone help me with this apparent discrepancy? Just how rare is E-V13 in Britain? And if so, is it significant in any way? Thanks for any assistance.
    its not true E v13 in Britain is entirely Ballkanic. It appears E v13 is an indoeuropean haplogroup. It means this people mixed in Anatolia before moving to Britaian. So check the E-v13 tree and see if yours is Ballkanic

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    Quote Originally Posted by aussienoel View Post
    Perhaps you can answer my question. FTDNA recommends that I test for two SNPs - Y2491 and L117. Does that seem to be appropriate?

    I find the FTDNA website very clumsy to navigate at this stage.

    In my opinion, FTDNA works best with STR tests, which you did, and BigY, which helps with both STR and SNP, especially after you upload it to YFull. I'd say if you want to stick with FTDNA, wait for their discount period and order a BigY test.

    If you want to do SNP tests, I would recommend YSEQ. If you want to be sure of being E1b-V13, you could do a $18 test such as this one: https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=4418, and if that comes out positive, you can try the E1b-V13 panel which tests for all SNPs listed here: https://www.yseq.net/product_info.ph...oducts_id=2486.

    But again, try to talk to an E haplogroup project admin as they are more knowledgeable on this.
    Last edited by Ownstyler; 30-10-18 at 00:40.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E- V13
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Ethnic group
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    Country: United States



    Hello all,

    I am a newbie here. My fathers family is from Donegal, Ireland, and I believe we are V-13. Our surname is considered the most common Irish name in Ireland. Most of my Irish friends are R1b, so it was interesting we came up with this Haplogroup or Haplotype.

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    All of Haplogroup E is Black different types of Black but still Black non-theless. If a white person or a Arab person carriers any Branch of Haplogroup E it just means that they have a African male ancestor, it doesn't mean that branch turned non-black unless it's a first generation Albino is the only exception. Eurocentrist like to make the basseless claim that E-M215 is a white haplogroup because they claim they found some whites and Arabs who belong to Branches of E-M215 even though the majority of E-M215+ branches are found among most So-called horn Africans and North Africans but these people are not white. We may have long noses and long faces still doesn't make us white or So-Called caucasian= an all enclusive version of white. If you look up the haplogroup E1b1a project at ftdna you will find many non-Black people belong to the many Branches of E1b1a. E1b1a is considered a So-called sub-saharan Haplogroup by racist eurocentrist even though it's found in Europe and West Asia just like it's little brother E1b1b. According to Eurocentrist E1b1b is found in 25% in Europe mostly in South Europe across the Great sea from Africa. They say E-V13 is the highest branch of E in Europe and it's mostly found in Albania then the Balkans. What that means is Albanians that belong to E-V13 are descendents of African males and Sub-Alpine european women. Just like other so-called Non-Blacks that belong to any Branch of Haplogroup E are decedants of African males.
    To go even further Y DNA Haplogroups A and B are also clearly African in origin but some white Europeans and Orange Arabs carry Different Branches of Haplogroup A and B. Haplogroup A is Most commonly found Among Khoisan people of Southern Africa followed by Ethiopian Jews and So-Called Nilotic people in Sudan, Egypt, Chad, Kenya, Ethiopia and Tanzania also in Cameroon. It is found in low frequencies in Europe but in europe it is mostly found in British men carrying the surname Revis. There are many theories of how these British men carry haplogroup A the most common theory among racist is that these men are descendents of African slaves, However, the mostly likely cause is that they got it from the African Moors who migrated from Spain to the uk, these Moors married and had kids with the white British women, then there mixed Orange/Yellow Kids grew up and eventually when most of the Moors left the uk some stayed and continued to marry and have kids with indigenous white men and women and these mixed orange/yellow kids descendants started to turn white again over time, still keeping the Y DNA African Chromasomes.
    According to poplular belief the Moors belong to Y DNA haplogroup E1b1b only. But new non-biased science proves that E1b1b is only one of major Haplogroups found among ancient Moors DNA. According to Dr. Goldburg and his team at Albert Einstein Collage Tel Aviv, the most common Haplogroups of the Moors by percentage is: E1b1b 24%, E1b1a 20% , E1a1 16% DE 8% , A 4%, B1b1a 3%, E2b1b1 10%, J1 15%.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    L19
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J2

    Country: France



    There are studies that have shown that there have been multiple migrations of E in Europe, the oldest of which was detected 4000 years ago, with the megalithic culture of the Atlantic. Then at the time of the Carthaginians there were exchanges of populations between the Iberian Peninsulas, Sardinia and North Africa, they recruited men to fight and to cultivate land. The Romans contributed enormously to the dispersal of haplogroup E throughout their empire, as mercenaries, traders or farmers. We neglect the Byzantines who also included in their Empire North Africa, then there was 800 years of Berber presence in the Iberian Peninsula which allowed exchanges with all the countries of Western Europe. The representations of the Berbers at all times of history show that they were white, they belong to the Mediterranean world, this people has always lived concentrated on the Mediterranean coast.

  20. #45
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b>E-M81>E-M183
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U6

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    Country: Algeria



    Congrats on your results! (I know its late lol)

    I think you're most likely descended Roman-Berber troops stationed there.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H11a

    Country: Netherlands



    I've got a cousin with whom I share a MRCA about 3200 ybp. His family lived in England and Ireland by the name of Sinnott, a noble family that arrived with the Norman conquerors in the 11th century. This is an example of a late entry of E-V13 on the British Isles, so they aren’t directly a descendant of Roman soldiers. Let's exclude that Sir Sinnott belonged to the aggressive Scandinavian elite and assume that he belonged to the French nobles. He might have had an ancestor who was a Roman soldier, since Greater Paris stayed Roman for a long time, but the Romans had been defeated earlier by the Francs under King Clovis. So the Sinnotts may have been Francs and have come from Northern France and Belgium. This also was under Roman rule? Yes, but they also resisted and revolted all the time (Caesar: Belgiums are the bravest of all) and the territory was soon occupied by allied Francs (but non-Romans) who came from the Northern side off the Rhine. This is where my family lived by the end of the Middle Ages as farmers that were feudally related to the whole bunch of local aristocracy that had strongholds on the eastside of the Rhine traditionally held by Teutonic Roman-eaters. I consider myself a cultivated man and would welcome a Roman, or even better Greek ancestor, but it just doesn’t feel like that. Actually, I don’t know any fancy genealogy of European gentry that relates itself to Romans unless they lived at least a three days’ travel away from the Rhine. Nonetheless, both Sinnott and I share a cousin in Tuscany with the same MRCA about 3200 ybp. So are we Romans after all, or is the Italian a captured Germanic or do the Irishman, Italian and Dutchman share a common Celtic ancestor that lived in the Hercynian Forest? Please advise.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Polman View Post
    I've got a cousin with whom I share a MRCA about 3200 ybp. His family lived in England and Ireland by the name of Sinnott, a noble family that arrived with the Norman conquerors in the 11th century. This is an example of a late entry of E-V13 on the British Isles, so they aren’t directly a descendant of Roman soldiers. Let's exclude that Sir Sinnott belonged to the aggressive Scandinavian elite and assume that he belonged to the French nobles. He might have had an ancestor who was a Roman soldier, since Greater Paris stayed Roman for a long time, but the Romans had been defeated earlier by the Francs under King Clovis. So the Sinnotts may have been Francs and have come from Northern France and Belgium. This also was under Roman rule? Yes, but they also resisted and revolted all the time (Caesar: Belgiums are the bravest of all) and the territory was soon occupied by allied Francs (but non-Romans) who came from the Northern side off the Rhine. This is where my family lived by the end of the Middle Ages as farmers that were feudally related to the whole bunch of local aristocracy that had strongholds on the eastside of the Rhine traditionally held by Teutonic Roman-eaters. I consider myself a cultivated man and would welcome a Roman, or even better Greek ancestor, but it just doesn’t feel like that. Actually, I don’t know any fancy genealogy of European gentry that relates itself to Romans unless they lived at least a three days’ travel away from the Rhine. Nonetheless, both Sinnott and I share a cousin in Tuscany with the same MRCA about 3200 ybp. So are we Romans after all, or is the Italian a captured Germanic or do the Irishman, Italian and Dutchman share a common Celtic ancestor that lived in the Hercynian Forest? Please advise.
    It's even more complicated than that. They are finding E-V13 in Visigothic settlements in Spain. E-V13 was probably all over the Balkans and the Carpathian mountains, and perhaps even in West Ukraine in the Bronze Age. It was probably picked up by the groups moving through. So, it may have spread via a Central European route as well as the southern route, probably with Greek colonization.

    The only way it will possibly be disentangled is with very precise categorization into subclades, as is starting to be done with G2a.

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    I'm sure our E-V13 specialists are trying to sort out the lines. Is there something we could learn from the approach as is starting to be done with G2a?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Polman View Post
    I'm sure our E-V13 specialists are trying to sort out the lines. Is there something we could learn from the approach as is starting to be done with G2a?
    Well, in Italy, for example, they began with dating the specific clades and looking at the geographic distribution. (Boattini group)

    There was a "northern" type that seemed to have come from Central Europe, and a "southern" type that appeared to have come from Greece (Crete as well) and/or Anatolia. That doesn't mean that E-V13 is not a Neolithic derived lineage, as Bicicleur explains in the Iberia thread. We can find the immediate precursors in Neolithic Croatia and Spain, associated with the Cardial culture complex. G2a is also Neolithic in Europe.

    What seems to have happened is that in Central Europe they were perhaps picked up by Beaker like people and then filtered into various more modern "ethnic" groupings.

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    I tested E-V13 with 23&Me so I was directed to Family Tree DNA and did the Y-67 which stated I was E-M35. I can trace my Ancestors to 1410 England and stop there. I signed up for a couple of groups on FTDNA. I understand the general theory is my immediate Ancestors would then b descendants of the Roman Army, specifically Thracian's out of he Balkan's almost 2,000 years ago?

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