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Thread: E1b1b1 / E3b / E-M35 / E-V13 in the UK

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    E1b1b1 / E3b / E-M35 / E-V13 in the UK

    E1b1b1 also known as E3b / E-M35 and E-V13 is rare in Great Britain. So, how many of you are from this haplogroup AND can trace your ancestors to the UK? Where did they live? What was their surname? I've read where it is believed that this haplogroup was introduced into Great Britain by Roman soldiers from the Balkans / Thrace who were stationed there in the 1st century. Some apparently completed their service and remained in the UK.

    A good article is by Steven C. Bird at w w w . j o g g . i n f o / 3 2 / b i r d . p d f

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    Compress / remove spaces in the web address. (I haven't posted enough times to include a URL)

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    These maps came from the above article:



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    Some really good articles are

    http://www.genebase.com/learning/article/2 (a general article on the distribution of E1b1b1)

    http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.pdf (an article on Roman Soldiers in Great Britain)

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: USA - West Virginia



    My:
    14th Great Grandfather Thomas Smith b1500 d1541 Born and died in Welbourne, Lincolnshire, England surely E-V13 DNA
    13th Great GF; William Smith b1518 in Humberstone, Leicestershire, England and died 31 JAN 1552 in Honington, Warwickshire.
    12th GGF; Thomas Smith; Born 1543 in Hoby, Leicestershire; Died 9JUL1601 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
    11th GGF; John of Nibley Smith born 1566 in Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
    10th GGF; William Smith; born 1600 in Humberstone, Lincolnshire, England; died 1639 in Hempstead, Linvingston, NEW YORK, USA
    09th GGF: Abraham Smith; born 1625 Hempstead, Nassau, NEw YORK, USA died 1698 in Hempstead
    08th GGF; Abraham Smith; born 1647, Hempstead died 1732 Cape May, NJ, USA all E-V13

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13

    Country: USA - West Virginia



    I have a DNA match (E-V13) with a cousin. Our common ancestor is my 05th GGF Timothy Smith; revolutionary war soldier;
    Born 25 JAN 1747 in Monmouth, New Jersey, USA; Died 3 APR 1822 in Greene, Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA
    Paper and DNA match each other.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by tfsmith View Post
    My:
    14th Great Grandfather Thomas Smith b1500 d1541 Born and died in Welbourne, Lincolnshire, England surely E-V13 DNA
    13th Great GF; William Smith b1518 in Humberstone, Leicestershire, England and died 31 JAN 1552 in Honington, Warwickshire.
    12th GGF; Thomas Smith; Born 1543 in Hoby, Leicestershire; Died 9JUL1601 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
    11th GGF; John of Nibley Smith born 1566 in Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
    10th GGF; William Smith; born 1600 in Humberstone, Lincolnshire, England; died 1639 in Hempstead, Linvingston, NEW YORK, USA
    Were your ancestors showmen or gypsies or something? Because they sure did move around a lot.

    My guess: these are several different Smith families than your ancestors, meaning Thomas Smith of Welbourne, Lincolnshire is far from being "surely E-V13."

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    well will u look at that...what a rarity, an englishman by the name of Smith positive for E3b of the balkan E-V13 variety.....you represent trace frequencies of english men, like less than 1-3%. your paternal ancestor migrated long ago from egypt (E3b is very high in non-negroid NORTH-africans such as libyans,algerians, tunisians etc.) this only makes sense (him coming from egypt) because all E-V13's are also E-M78 positive (east north african branch libya/egypt) he arrived near greece/albania where his E-V13 mutation took place. from there, he probably arrived to southern italy riding a wave of greek colonizers to southern italy. he must have been a roman soldier stationed in britain during roman attempts to dominate england, after many centuries, he somehow ended up migrating to colonial america

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    this is your most probable route to where you are today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tfsmith View Post
    I have a DNA match (E-V13) with a cousin. Our common ancestor is my 05th GGF Timothy Smith; revolutionary war soldier;
    Born 25 JAN 1747 in Monmouth, New Jersey, USA; Died 3 APR 1822 in Greene, Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA
    Paper and DNA match each other.
    It could be Spanish or French from the neolithic too, but most probably is a Roman soldier of Illyrian origin. If that's the case he already was 1/2 Celtic genetically when he got to England. Congrats.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I don' t exclude roman soldiers, or true Latines, or mercenaries from Balkans and surroundings working for Rome - but if Y-E1b-V13, don't forget it 's almost sure the danubian agricultural culture had a lot of EV13 bearers along the well known Y-G2... and they move NW

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    they moved northwards and northwestwards along Danau river to Poland, Germany, Austria, N-E-France etc... during neolithic colonization

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a4o

    Ethnic group
    Down Under
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I don' t exclude roman soldiers, or true Latines, or mercenaries from Balkans and surroundings working for Rome - but if Y-E1b-V13, don't forget it 's almost sure the danubian agricultural culture had a lot of EV13 bearers along the well known Y-G2... and they move NW
    Reading about roman soldiers from the balkan areas in britian. there is a clear distinction, that from wales across middle England to the north sea is the main E-v13 group . In southern England seems to be G2a group

    I wonder if the E was from Thracian roman soldiers and G from alpine roman soldiers. The romans classified the Thracians as better troops than the alpine troops and the illyrians as troops where untrustworthy .
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    the door is still open - very hard to agree or disagree for now (in my mind at least)
    E-V13 Thracians? maybe, it is sure there were Thracians - but are we sure Thracians were E-V13 dominent?
    I had better seen a lot of Y-J2 among them + other I-E or supposed I-E and neolithical Y-HGs - but it depends of the osmose of I-E Thracians with local people in East Balkans - a bet of mine: Y-E1b-V13 bearers were rather in central Balkans around the main rivers net, before being involved in Y-G2 colonization of danubian Europe: there they were half amalgamed hald pushed outwards by newcomers at metal ages - I say: a bet!

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    Just letting you know we are starting a new DNA project dedicated to Haplotype(s) E1b / E3b /E-M35 and E-V13 in Scotland.

    Come on over and join us at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...5-In-Scotland/


    Tom Caulley
    Project Admin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomAC View Post
    E1b1b1 also known as E3b / E-M35 and E-V13 is rare in Great Britain. So, how many of you are from this haplogroup AND can trace your ancestors to the UK? Where did they live? What was their surname? I've read where it is believed that this haplogroup was introduced into Great Britain by Roman soldiers from the Balkans / Thrace who were stationed there in the 1st century. Some apparently completed their service and remained in the UK.

    A good article is by Steven C. Bird at w w w . j o g g . i n f o / 3 2 / b i r d . p d f
    "It is important to note that at least four additional YDNA markers may have arrived with the Romans. What have been described as the Balkan group (E-V13), the Ancient Caucasians (G-S314), the Herdsman-Farmers (J-M172 – and a sub-group of this, M67, looks particularly Italian) and the Anatolian marker (R1b-M269*), when taken together, potentially add another 2.3 million Englishmen and Welshmen who could trace their fatherlines to the veterans of the II Augusta, the IX Hispana, the XIV Gemina, the XX Valeria Victrix and the other Italians who crossed to Britain in their wake."
    BritainsDNA Press Releases - BritainsDNA finds the Lost Legions.
    http://www.britainsdna.com/about/press-releases

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    the problem is that, at present time, among the bearers of these HGs we cannot separate the roman or romanized soldiers from the other potential bearers (first neolithical peasants or breeders, 'long barrows' people, Bel Beakers, frenchmen at Middle Ages a.s.o. ... maybe I forget someones)

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-M215
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Ethnic group
    white irish/english mtdna H - Ydna E-M215
    Country: United Kingdom



    E-m215

    Quote Originally Posted by TomAC View Post
    E1b1b1 also known as E3b / E-M35 and E-V13 is rare in Great Britain. So, how many of you are from this haplogroup AND can trace your ancestors to the UK? Where did they live? What was their surname? I've read where it is believed that this haplogroup was introduced into Great Britain by Roman soldiers from the Balkans / Thrace who were stationed there in the 1st century. Some apparently completed their service and remained in the UK.

    A good article is by Steven C. Bird at w w w . j o g g . i n f o / 3 2 / b i r d . p d f
    I am E-M215 which was e1b1b1 but I think has been refined.

    I have my Dads family tree back to about 1700 and they are all 'Sheppards' I want to think we are descended from Roman soldiers, but could it be possible we are from even earlier, the bronze age? when metal workers travelled to the uk from the med?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by sheppardl View Post
    I am E-M215 which was e1b1b1 but I think has been refined.

    I have my Dads family tree back to about 1700 and they are all 'Sheppards' I want to think we are descended from Roman soldiers, but could it be possible we are from even earlier, the bronze age? when metal workers travelled to the uk from the med?
    We know that E-V13 has been around in europe since the Neolithic so all is possible. Although there might be some truth in the Roman troops theory, my opinion is that it cannot be the only source, since Scandinavia has similar low percentages of E-V13 similar to the UK, in areas that were never occupied by Roman troops. So earlier entries are very probable considering the age of E-V13 on the continent.

    Some Spencers (some were also Sheppards) and Ferguson are also in this group. I have 1 genetic distance with Wils, Willis and Wilson from Cornwal, Scotland (border with England) and Cumbria.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5A2c3

    Ethnic group
    Northwest European/Eastern European
    Country: United States



    I am very late to this thread but would like to add some data if it can help (any opinions/suggestions appreciated):
    Sanders/Saunders family
    Have been in Warwickshire (Coventry area) since early 1500's moving to Staffordshire approximately mid 1800's, I do not know if they are still there because my great grandfather came to the U.S.A. in 1893.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5A2c3

    Ethnic group
    Northwest European/Eastern European
    Country: United States



    An amendment to my last post:
    It looks like my sub-clade is E-M35.2 and it doesn't look like this part of my family left the West Midlands. I have a few clues pointing towards Surrey at the very beginning of the 1500's (when the family all but drops off the map in Warwickshire) but I don't see the evidence to take it further, there must have been quite a few people with that surname.

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    Already there!

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    My earliest ancester is an Elliott. Born in new hampshire 1793. Im linked to the UK with some Coles, Rumleys, & Rumseys, as well as Romerils from the Channel islands.( romeril is among many close names said to be given to people from Rome. Rumsey, Rumley, & Ramsey are said to be anglesised forms of Romeril.i am waiting for a link to an Elliott in the UK with E1b1b1.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-fgc10117+

    Ethnic group
    British Isles
    Country: USA - Oklahoma



    Glad this thread was started...My Shirley ancestors were from Oxfordshire England area...rare haplo e-m134- (m34-). My paternal grandmother carried these genes...dark eyes, dark complexion, black hair until the day she died at age 94...she is a source of my Anatolia, No. Italy, Tuscan-like Admixtures.

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    Since my last post i have found i am m-81/M-183, negative for V-13. This is even more rare in Britain. My automosal says im 86% british isles with 96% europe. 2% north african which points to source of the M-183. Berber Roman troops or immigration across the straits?

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