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Thread: Turks with 10 - 25% Mongoloid admixture ( Turkish people autosomal DNA )

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorianfinder View Post
    Interesting comment, epicanthic eye-folds are not exclusive to Asia and mongoloid is a term that is used to describe non-Asians too.

    Attachment 6239Attachment 6240Attachment 6241

    Khosains as closest to Proto Humans, would have allot of the characteristic things. lighter skin than average Sub Saharan African, eye-folds, lower fat on cheeks and more prominent chin and brow ridge.

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    Which haplogroup are Mongoloid ? The Q and the N ?

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    Turks with strong Mongoloid features / Turanid race

    Even in a country like Turkey ( between west Asia/Europe) have some individuals with strong Mongoloid traits. The percentage of most provinces usually only ranges 1% - 10% or 5% - 17% Mongoloid admixture however a few province from the southeast apparently have much higher Mongoloid admixture than the Turks can be as low as 1.5% to as high as 24.5% Mongoloid



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    Quote Originally Posted by Anatolian chevalier View Post
    i am also turkish anatolian. slanted eyes very rare to see in turkey but we can have because mongolian invasion
    Well however rare it is, it's still most common in Turkey and Azeris among all middle eastern nations

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    Even in Turkey, we associate slanted eyes with Tatars, not Turks.

    During the Ottoman Period, there is no nationalism and after that Ataturk nationalism aimed to create Turkish nation from different muslim people as in melting pot system. It wasn't successfull just in Kurd case. (Maybe a little bit succesfull, example current leader of Kurdish movement is Selahattin Demirtaş and his mothertongue is Turkish.)

    But it is dramatically succesfull between Albanian, Bosnian, North Caucausian , Muslim Georgians and Tatars. Populations statistics about them are just funny guess.

    Wiki says
    it says 150 000 - 6 000 000, as you see, there is a huge difference. It is really hard to find real population statistics about these populations.

    6 million means nearly 7% of Turkey Population.

    And As you can guess, Tatar people has more strong Mongolid feather such as slanted eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Even in Turkey, we associate slanted eyes with Tatars, not Turks.

    During the Ottoman Period, there is no nationalism and after that Ataturk nationalism aimed to create Turkish nation from different muslim people as in melting pot system. It wasn't successfull just in Kurd case. (Maybe a little bit succesfull, example current leader of Kurdish movement is Selahattin Demirtaş and his mothertongue is Turkish.)

    But it is dramatically succesfull between Albanian, Bosnian, North Caucausian , Muslim Georgians and Tatars. Populations statistics about them are just funny guess.

    Wiki says
    it says 150 000 - 6 000 000, as you see, there is a huge difference. It is really hard to find real population statistics about these populations.

    6 million means nearly 7% of Turkey Population.

    And As you can guess, Tatar people has more strong Mongolid feather such as slanted eyes.
    It all depends on how strongly original Turks mixed with locals. They could have lost their mongoloid features by now. It might be the same case as with Tatar minority in Poland, Lithuania and Belarus. They look exactly, or almost exactly like surrounding local folks. You wouldn't even guess they used to look like Mongolians 500 years ago.
    You would need to look into some secluded villages where Turks settled in great numbers. They might still sport some Mongolian features.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Gurka_atla

    I think this mean one thing. You are the descendant of original Turks. Original Altaian people had some 30-40% Asiatic Mongoloid component + 30 % Central Siberian component. Plus some 20-25 % European.

    Screenshot from 2015-05-09 08:58:16.jpg

    Fig.1. Admixture results for K=6 showing the approximate location of the populations
    included in this study. The names of the populations are coloured according to their
    linguistic affiliation as follows: red = Mongolic, blue = Turkic, dark green = North
    Tungusic, light green = South Tungusic (Hezhen) and Manchu (Xibo), brown = Ugric,
    orange = Samoyedic, black = Yenisseic, azure = Yukaghirs, maroon = Chukotko-
    Kamchatkan, pink = Eskimo-Aleut, purple = Indo-European, teal = Sino-Tibetan and
    Japonic. Where two subgroups are from the same geographic location, only one of the
    subgroups is shown (full results are presented in Fig.S1). Note that for reasons of space the
    location of the two distinct Yakut subgroups does not correspond to their true location.
    Each color indicates a different ancestry component referred to in the text as "(light) green”
    or European, "yellow" or Western Siberian, "blue" or Central Siberian, "pink" or Asian,
    "red" or Far Eastern, "dark green" or Eskimo.

    This is from this study about Siberians

    http://biorxiv.org/highwire/filestre...0/018770-1.pdf

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    5 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
    One of the reasons that the East Asiatic component is low in today's Turkey is not only the fact they mixed heavily with locals but also the fact that Ottoman Empire was fighting and eradicating the original Turkic tribes because they became Shias. In the big war between Ottomans and Safavids, Turkic tribes who became Shia supported Safavid against Sunni Ottomans.
    All Shia Turkomans were forced to move to Iran's Azerbaijan from Anatolia. Most of them were killed during battles.
    So if You look at Azerbaijanis in Iran You will find that they have higher Mongoloid component than Turks in Anatolia. But even in Iranian Azerbaijan the original Iranian component is higher than the Eastern. The northern Azerbaijan (the Republic) is another story.
    Iraqi Turkmens are for example the remnant of this struggle. Half of them are Shia.
    In overall in Turkey the original East Asiatic components will not exceed 10 % in my opinion.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anatolian chevalier View Post
    İ am from central anatolia i never seen people with slanted eyed or turanid face. their ancestor is raped. Asiatic people in turkey is nogais and tatars they sre immigrant we are original anatolian descend
    If you are an original anatolian then you are not turkish.

    The Turkish people invaded Anatolia

    So you are Greek or Armenian

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    What's the purpose of this? It is not a secret that mixed households are rather common in Turkey. So you get people with russian, bulgarian, tatar, west-european and who knows whatever else heritage. Oh, and forgot kurds. Sorry, there is no such thing as a "real" turk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Iliev View Post
    What's the purpose of this? It is not a secret that mixed households are rather common in Turkey. So you get people with russian, bulgarian, tatar, west-european and who knows whatever else heritage. Oh, and forgot kurds. Sorry, there is no such thing as a "real" turk.
    I would agree

    As per the latest doco I saw yesterday (on Byzantium) which investigated the Turk history, even the Turks acknowledge (via their literature and bards ) that they arrived in firstly in eastern Anatolia in 1079 AD from central asia
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    One of the reasons that the East Asiatic component is low in today's Turkey is not only the fact they mixed heavily with locals but also the fact that Ottoman Empire was fighting and eradicating the original Turkic tribes because they became Shias. In the big war between Ottomans and Safavids, Turkic tribes who became Shia supported Safavid against Sunni Ottomans.
    Good analysis but partly true. Yes there was a rivalry between Ottomans and Shia Safavids but also there were Sunni Crimea Khanate which was ally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    So if You look at Azerbaijanis in Iran You will find that they have higher Mongoloid component than Turks in Anatolia. But even in Iranian Azerbaijan the original Iranian component is higher than the Eastern.
    Another good analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    In overall in Turkey the original East Asiatic components will not exceed 10 % in my opinion.
    Adsız.jpg

    Totally right Mine says 7%

    Quote Originally Posted by AnatoliansNotTurk View Post
    If you are an original anatolian then you are not turkish.

    The Turkish people invaded Anatolia

    So you are Greek or Armenian
    Greeks ??? Greeks are not Anatolian and Armenoid name is just a name which include also all Caucausian, so your words doesn't make sense.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Iliev View Post
    there is no such thing as a "real" turk.
    Yeap, no pure blood nations, espeacially in Turk case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    As per the latest doco I saw yesterday (on Byzantium) which investigated the Turk history, even the Turks acknowledge (via their literature and bards ) that they arrived in firstly in eastern Anatolia in 1079 AD from central asia
    1079 AD, what is that?

    Manzikert Battle was in 1071 AD. Even this is not the date of first arrival. If we don't count the looting attacks, first arrival could be capturing of city Ani in 1064 AD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post

    1079 AD, what is that?

    Manzikert Battle was in 1071 AD. Even this is not the date of first arrival. If we don't count the looting attacks, first arrival could be capturing of city Ani in 1064 AD
    have an arguement with this series

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1c...es-2of3_travel

    2nd video..................better still , watch all 3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post




    Greeks ??? Greeks are not Anatolian and Armenoid name is just a name which include also all Caucausian, so your words doesn't make sense.




    Where did you get this map from?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Iliev View Post
    What's the purpose of this? It is not a secret that mixed households are rather common in Turkey. So you get people with russian, bulgarian, tatar, west-european and who knows whatever else heritage. Oh, and forgot kurds. Sorry, there is no such thing as a "real" turk.
    So today Turks are a mix of the whole planet earth? theyre a mix, yes, but with some historical basis, and some recent weddings with foreign people are not eough to change the anatoolian Turcs basis: Anatolians of diverse origin (Greeks, Armenians, Anatolian I-Eans and others like Kurds) + Steppes people for the most dating from the Turkic extension, of turlicized Iranians and genuine Turcs (this last ones a Central Steppes mix of 'europoids' plus at first a strong 'east-asian' imput from S-E Altay - at last in the terminal point it gives us a very light 'east-asian' or 'mongoloid' imput in Anatolia, perhaps varying according to regions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Where did you get this map from?
    It is Eickstedta's map

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    It is Eickstedta's map
    Not quite. Someone has been tampering with that map and putting his own conceptions in. Eickstedt did not label any "Europid" race as "Berberid", he considered North African populations to basically be a composite of Mediterraneans ("Westische"), Alpines ("Ostische") and "Orientals" ("Orientalide"; meaning in this context Near Easterners, not East Asians), with Nordic ("Nordische") and Negroid ("Sudanide") minorities:

    http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bild...kstedt-eur.jpg


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurka atla View Post
    So does that mean that Turkish people are not closer to original Turks?

    I though the heavy Asian looking Turkmen is the result of Mongol invasion. Aren't these Mongol descendant?


    These people look like the huns.But from what i have learned that old turkic people look very asian.amazing I thought turks came from asia minor,I have never seen this before would like to learn more about it,,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Good analysis but partly true. Yes there was a rivalry between Ottomans and Shia Safavids but also there were Sunni Crimea Khanate which was ally.



    Another good analysis



    Adsız.jpg

    Totally right Mine says 7%



    Greeks ??? Greeks are not Anatolian and Armenoid name is just a name which include also all Caucausian, so your words doesn't make sense.





    Yeap, no pure blood nations, espeacially in Turk case.



    1079 AD, what is that?

    Manzikert Battle was in 1071 AD. Even this is not the date of first arrival. If we don't count the looting attacks, first arrival could be capturing of city Ani in 1064 AD
    Their were greek speakers in anatolia im sure..

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    Interesting thread. I've seen blogs of turks who studied Korean and found so much similarity it has with Turk regarding language structure and a few basic words. Maybe that's why linguists categorize turk korean Mongolian languages to the same lineage. There are websites that dedicate itself to finding similar vocabulary but that's like trying to find similarity between German and english...

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    I wouldnt think they would be considered Mongolian descendents since Asiatic looking people from central Asia has been painted centuries before the Mongolian invasion. (look up some ancient paintings) I think it had more to do with border mixture and nomad travels rather than invasions....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ukaj View Post
    Their were greek speakers in anatolia im sure..
    There are still, but it doesn't make the Greeks, Anatolian. It is like saying German and English are American

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    There are still, but it doesn't make the Greeks, Anatolian. It is like saying German and English are American
    but we say......many Americans are German and English descent

    we can say many Anatolians are of Greek descent , considering there where Greeks in ancient times in Traboz, ( pontic area ).........also the Mycenaean colonies in western Anatolia .

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    but we say......many Americans are German and English descent

    we can say many Anatolians are of Greek descent , considering there where Greeks in ancient times in Traboz, ( pontic area ).........also the Mycenaean colonies in western Anatolia .
    Many Anatolians are of Greek descent is a thing

    and

    Many Greeks are of Anatolian descent is another thing. I am the supporter of second one.

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