Turks with 10 - 25% Mongoloid admixture ( Turkish people autosomal DNA )

[MOESAN]

I honestly don't know but you're right that in France most Turks are Kurds, many Turks are assimilated Kurds. I've seen a few Turks that look like these but I'm not exactly if this is Mongoloid influenced or not.


I've asked somebody before and they think Turks that are like these are West Asian Caucasoid with Mongoloid influences.

just a personal opinion: the first one (top) could have very well a little bit of mogoloid - the two others do not show it for I think -
concerning eyelids, the 'mongoloid "bridle" is a peculiar thing, not very common in Occident - but some mornings when I rise up, at first sight, some naive person could think I have mongoloid origins before a good washing and some hours of awakeness give me more "european look"!!!

 

[Gurka atla]

just a personal opinion: the first one (top) could have very well a little bit of mogoloid - the two others do not show it for I think -
concerning eyelids, the 'mongoloid "bridle" is a peculiar thing, not very common in Occident - but some mornings when I rise up, at first sight, some naive person could think I have mongoloid origins before a good washing and some hours of awakeness give me more "european look"!!!

Yeah, I always though that Turks with those looks like are superficial. I honestly don't know what a small Mongoloid influence turk suppose to look like. Another thing I think it could be true is that Turkish who mixed with East Asian always end up looking very East Asian. On the internet I have seen 2 couples who have sons born to Turkish father and Kazakh women both of them look like Kazakh but with some diluted Asian features. I have also seen sons of Kazakh fathers and Russian mother and their sons and daughters all look almost White which is not surprising since Kazakhs are 70% Asian only and 30% Caucasian.


A mixture of pure blood 100% Korean with 7% Mongoloid Turkish will produce a 53.5% Mongoloid.

A mixture of pure blood 100% Korean and with 10 Mongoloid Turkish will produce 55% Mongoloid

A mixture of pure blood 100% Korean and with 20% Mongoloid Turkish will produce 60% Mongoloid




This is a theory ( not mine )

Like for example somebody posted these pictures who are half Turkish/ half Korean other is half Turkish/half Japanese and they all look surprisingly more Mongoloid than the average Eurasian. Although according to some people Asian genes are stronger so their offspring tend to look mostly East Asians but in some cases look mostly Caucasian. However I have yet to see one half Turkish half Asian that doesn't look so Asian.

aleyna yilmaz

ilayda yilmaz

 

[uguner]

These grandmas look like Udmurt Grannies participated to the Eurovision last year in 2012

I really don't know. I'm very confused myself so kept searching for more data but I believe the highest Mongoloid admixture maybe in Southwest Turkey where they settled where Turkic group known as Comakdag who settle the land. They live in todays East Turkey Agean coast and have many odd looks.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=tr&u=http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87omakda%C4%9Fk%C4%B1z%C4%B1la%C4%9Fa%C3%A7,_Milas&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcomakdag%2BKoyu%26sa%3DX%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D624




It says there is no information about the origin and history of the name of the village. Even though most of them can look like Turkish some of them seem to look like a Asiatic hybrid Mongoloid/Caucasoid people but someone said their Turkic ancestry is higher than average Turkish.

 

[silkyslovanbojkovsky]

So does that mean original Turks were Mongoloid? Are am I not a real Turk? Why doesn't Azeris look like Turks from Central Asia but more Turkish. Actually I think many Turkmen can look like Turkish although I do believe they have heavy Mongoloid admixture in them.

You are definitely a real turk! The original turks were mongoloid people. Why do you think your language is related to tatars and people from Kazakhstan? Have you ever seen those people. They look completely mongoloid. The fact that you show up as having quite a bit, means you have a substantial amount of real Turkic blood. Why would you expect Greece or other balkanic people to have this. They speak Indo-European languages that have nothing to do with mongoloid type people. The genes that turks share with greeks and other balkanic people is due to the native inhabitants who were in Turkey before the original turks came

 

[Gurka atla]

You are definitely a real turk! The original turks were mongoloid people. Why do you think your language is related to tatars and people from Kazakhstan? Have you ever seen those people. They look completely mongoloid. The fact that you show up as having quite a bit, means you have a substantial amount of real Turkic blood. Why would you expect Greece or other balkanic people to have this. They speak Indo-European languages that have nothing to do with mongoloid type people. The genes that turks share with greeks and other balkanic people is due to the native inhabitants who were in Turkey before the original turks came

If real Turks are Mongoloid than I'm far from being a real Turk. I understand 22% East Asian/Siberian DNA is a lot of a Turk but I'm still 78% Caucasoid.

Kazakhstan look very mongoloid I agree but most Tatars don't, some Tatars look very Mongoloid though.

 

[Ike]

If real Turks are Mongoloid...

Yeah, we don't know if they are, and by how much. Maybe if we had one original Turk to test, he'd show 44 % Mongoloid, which could mean that you'd be 1/2 original Turk.

 

[Templar]

If real Turks are Mongoloid than I'm far from being a real Turk. I understand 22% East Asian/Siberian DNA is a lot of a Turk but I'm still 78% Caucasoid.

Kazakhstan look very mongoloid I agree but most Tatars don't, some Tatars look very Mongoloid though.

Identities of people change all the time. The most famous and successful Turks were the Ottoman Turks who were mostly Caucasoid. Just look at all the portraits of Sultans like Mehmed and Suleiman.

Modern Turk identity I think is far more the result of the actions of the Ottomans rather than previous Turks such as the Seljuqs or others.

 

[Templar]

Suleiman

Mehmed the conqueror

 

[Gurka atla]

Yeah, we don't know if they are, and by how much. Maybe if we had one original Turk to test, he'd show 44 % Mongoloid, which could mean that you'd be 1/2 original Turk.

The first turks look like this they claim

Gokturk empire in 552 AD to 770 AD, this was considered by many as the first empire to identify with name name Turk and they were suppose to be ancestors of Seljuks

Here is a facial reconstruction of Gokturk

 

[Noman]

The "Turkic" people like Ozman should be expected to all be admixed with "mongolians", after all that's where they came into byzantine empire from, central asia. They should be just like you, around 75% caucasoid and 25% mongoloid. So you are pure in the sense that you are likely very similar to the tribesmen who founded ottoman empire and those who still lead a similar lifestyle elsewhere.

 

[Gurka atla]

The "Turkic" people like Ozman should be expected to all be admixed with "mongolians", after all that's where they came into byzantine empire from, central asia. They should be just like you, around 75% caucasoid and 25% mongoloid. So you are pure in the sense that you are likely very similar to the tribesmen who founded ottoman empire and those who still lead a similar lifestyle elsewhere.

Well I knew if I had the highest Mongoloid admixture that means I could be closer to original Turk than other Turks but still I feel in no way Mongoloid, I do not look nothing like them at all.


By Russian anthropologists

The Oghuz turkmen were related with Gokturk, however the different is that Gokturk were predominately Mongoloid to Mongoloid. While Oghuz Turk have both people who are 100% Mongoloid and people were 25-50% Mongoloid and 25-50% Caucasoid.


Oghuz from Western + Southern Kazakhstan.

Russian translations.


" Among the Oghuz (mainly in the steppe zone of their resettlement) dominated Mongoloid racial type. "They - wrote about the Aral Oghuz in the tenth century. Al-Masudi, - most of undersized (Turks) and they have very small eyes" [11]. Other medieval authors note poorly defined vegetation on the face and body and Ploskonos Oguz. All of this suggests Mongoloid features that were characteristic of the bulk predominantly steppe Oguz [12]. "

" These written sources of X-XII centuries. the physical appearance of the Oghuz confirm some paleoanthropological materials. Among the found in the Oguz-Pecheneg mounds of western Kazakhstan skulls dominate Mongoloid types with the South Siberian features. However, there are also found the skull Caucasoid and metisnogo appearance. [13]


More intensive process of ethnic assimilation is likely to take place among the Oghuz south-western regions of Central Asia. Quite a few, but very interesting in this respect craniological material is located in southern Kazakhstan. In excavated ANBernshtam Oguz cemeteries Sasyk-Bulak buried dolihokrannye Caucasoids mixed with Mongoloid features. [14] "

 

[Ike]

This is a very large area to be filled with just one ethnic group. I guess those areas were occupied, and it's inhabitants subjected to Turkish rule, although not all of them were of Turkish origin. I find illustrations on Turkish smart cards similar what I imagine original Turks. And if you look carefully you'll see that not all of them are the same, some are more Mongol, some less, some have Arabic or Caucasian influence. I guess there were a lot of tribes, with different influences. It seems we'd have to trace a lot back from 500 A.D. to get to the kernel of the Turkish ethnicity.


What does being Turk originally meant anyway, it's unclear to me. Wiki says:

1. The ethnonym "Turk" may be first mentioned in Herodotus' work "Targitas"
2. During the first century A.D. Pomponius Mela refers to the "Turcae" in the forests north of the Sea of Azov
3. Pliny the Elder lists the "Tyrcae" among the people of the same area
4. The first definite reference to the "Turks" come mainly from Chinese sources in the sixth century. In these sources, "Turk" appears as "Tujue" which was used to refer to the Göktürks. According to Chinese sources, the meaning of the word Tujue was "combat helmet" , reportedly because the shape of the Altai Mountains, where they lived, was similar to a combat helmet.

Ok, I get the Chinese explanation, but Chinese had a name for tribes in Altaic mountains, and Europeans for a territory near the Black sea, which is more than 2000 km away. Similar terms - same people? Don't know.


Kemal Ataturk was born near Thessaloniki , and he's got very European face; I'd easily drop him in Hungary or Romania. I've intentionally chosen the pics without a moustache or traditional hat, and in European clothes:

 

[Gurka atla]

Kemal Ataturk was a Turk, his face is not necessarily European face, such faces can be seen in Turkish so there is nothing surprising.


Some described Turks as Mongoloid while other described them as Caucasoid

It's all very confusing, some Turks were described as being blonde hair, red hair, blue eyes, green eyes features. This would imply that Turks could have been Caucasoid or at least some of them but than when I see how the Kazakhs and Tuvans in Mongolia look like, it makes me think what what exactly did they mean by red hair, blonde hair, blue eyes? did they mean some who look like Ataturk or did they means Turks that look like this? these looks are not so rare for a Kazakh in western mongolia

 

[Gurka atla]

Another thing is the way how Chinese describe modern Uyghurs and Uzbeks, they honestly think they people are Caucasoid but when you look at genetics it shows they are half Mongoloid.

By believe is original Turks were Mongoloid but mostly Mongoloid/Caucasoid of various degree of admixture

 

[Gurka atla]

See this is a Uyghur turk, one look at him and even I'll think he is Caucasoid. But is he really a true caucasoid or is he Caucasoid looking for the same reason some Eurasians can look very Caucasoid too?

Here are some 50% Korean and 50% Japanese, mixed with white.

Could these what Chinese mean't when they described some Turks with Caucasoid appearance?

 

[Ike]

Ataturk was of Turkish nationality, great leader and visionary, but I don't think he's got much in common with original Turks.

Another thing is the way how Chinese describe modern Uyghurs and Uzbeks, they honestly think they people are Caucasoid but when you look at genetics it shows they are half Mongoloid.

Maybe the problem is that people notice the differences first. From Chinese point of view, these kids look odd, and very Caucasian, but it is obvious they have a Mongolian admixture.

Same goes for this guy:

He looks somewhat Turanid, and from my point of view he's a bit Asian. Chinese would probably say he is 100% Caucasoid?

 

[Noman]

Mongoloid is probably already a mix of east asian and more northern and western influences. Just like in europe there is an undercurrent of more eastern influences throughout almost the whole thing, nobody is fully separated especially by areas that are adjacent.

And doesn't turk comes from turkic languages?

 

[MOESAN]

this thread could perdure a lot of time without any gain: yet, some steppic I-Eans and uralic tribes took components among the same human ancient europid stock - what look had the "first" Turkic people? hard to say! but in the Steppes we KNOW (at least in Kazakhstan) that the admixture of europid and mongolid external traits grew up steadily at the expanse of the two "pure" original stocks since the Iron Age (already a little before some I-Eans (Iranic?) took mongolid females in their eastern areas): mongolid females for I-Eans, and after that mongolid+europid females for "Turks"? only well culturally identified human remnants could tell us what the first "Turks" look like (I bet more on the Mongolid side at first but after...???) - the Uygurs and others are a mix of turkic and I-Ean people, we know that - the same with the "Huns mystery"
everybody can choose the pictures of men or women that fit his theories and write a 3000 pages book -
joke - by the way, even if they had no statistical value, I find theses pictures very interesting -
have a good Saturday evening and a good Sunday (but a too good Saturday can make a very bad synday

 

[silkyslovanbojkovsky]

If real Turks are Mongoloid than I'm far from being a real Turk. I understand 22% East Asian/Siberian DNA is a lot of a Turk but I'm still 78% Caucasoid.

Kazakhstan look very mongoloid I agree but most Tatars don't, some Tatars look very Mongoloid though.

Yes of course you still are going to be hugely Caucasian. Turkey is a big mix of Middle Eastern, European, and Asian dna. You stated though in your previous comment that you began to doubt if you were really Turkish because you had 22% Asian dna. I was just pointing out that having those results would confirm that you are Turkish rather than not. To me its still obvious that tatars have Asian in them, the only reason a lot of them look more European is because they are mixed with Russians.

 

[Gurka atla]

this thread could perdure a lot of time without any gain: yet, some steppic I-Eans and uralic tribes took components among the same human ancient europid stock - what look had the "first" Turkic people? hard to say! but in the Steppes we KNOW (at least in Kazakhstan) that the admixture of europid and mongolid external traits grew up steadily at the expanse of the two "pure" original stocks since the Iron Age (already a little before some I-Eans (Iranic?) took mongolid females in their eastern areas): mongolid females for I-Eans, and after that mongolid+europid females for "Turks"? only well culturally identified human remnants could tell us what the first "Turks" look like (I bet more on the Mongolid side at first but after...???) - the Uygurs and others are a mix of turkic and I-Ean people, we know that - the same with the "Huns mystery"
everybody can choose the pictures of men or women that fit his theories and write a 3000 pages book -
joke - by the way, even if they had no statistical value, I find theses pictures very interesting -
have a good Saturday evening and a good Sunday (but a too good Saturday can make a very bad synday

I think Turks took both Caucasoid females like for example the burial of Pazyryk had both Turkic and Iranians.

Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population.^[4] quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid.^[5]