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Thread: New migration map of haplogroup R1a1a

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    So what? There was some BACKmigration of tribes from Northern Caucasus /Yamna Horizon into Kurdistan. Those folks brought European ‘R1a-Z283’, ‘I2’ and maybe ‘E’ to Kurdistan. I’m not denying this migration wave!

    But the fact is that there is NO I2a, R1a-Z283 and E in Central Asia.


    You’re wrong again. Most NATIVES of Caucasian Mountains have fair feature. And they’re predominantly West Asian. So there is a correlation between fair features and a West Asian aDNA-component!
    here is a map of light hair in europe and light eyes remeber that idno iranien remains in central asia had 60% light hair and 70% light eyes look how low the caucus area is.


    I never said Cimmeranis migrated from central asia. first about 5,000ybp indo iraniens migrated from russia then about 3,000ybp migrated back to russia and Ukraine. Cimmermans came from Ukriane that is why i think kurds have such high amount of Paleolithic eastern european I2a1b. i dont think the medes are a possible source of I2a1b in kurds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    yes maykop had mid eastern connections and indo european language may have spread from caucus to russia. But how do u know if Maykop did not get their indo european parts like a kurgen burail from Ukriane and Russians who they traded with alot. Indo European culture boomed in Russia and Ukriaine 6,000-8,000ybp. almost all Indo European languages spread from russia and Ukriane.
    Once again, Maykop AND Yamna are much older that these cultures in Easter Europe. Also, according to me PROTO-IEans that migrated into the Caucasus (Maykop Horizon) were the same folks that migrated into the Central Asia/Indus Valley!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    also R1* is Mongoloid.
    that is quite a conclusion, but at 25000 years ago, he definitely was very dark and probably had few mongoloid features, which makes him look more like an Indian from India today. Note that when Colombus met Native Americans, he thought he reached India.

    Taken from Wikipedia:
    North or south of 46 degrees latitude – e.g. in Canada, Mongolia, Russia, Scandinavia, and Western Europe – dark-skinned people could not produce enough vitamin D, and humans settlement only occurred after the development of light skin pigmentation[61] Polar regions of the Northern Hemisphere receive little UV radiation and even less vitamin B producing UVB for most of the year. These regions were uninhabited by humans until about 12 000 years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    here is a map of light hair in europe and light eyes remeber that idno iranien remains in central asia had 60% light hair and 70% light eyes look how low the caucus area is.


    I never said Cimmeranis migrated from central asia. first about 5,000ybp indo iraniens migrated from russia then about 3,000ybp migrated back to russia and Ukraine. Cimmermans came from Ukriane that is why i think kurds have such high amount of Paleolithic eastern european I2a1b. i dont think the medes are a possible source of I2a1b in kurds.
    I'm not denying that I2a is from the Cimmerians. But I'm just saying that Cimmerians were not really Iranic people. Also, who's saying that the mummies in Central Asia are (proto-)Indo-Iranian? And about which mummies are you actually talking about? If you mean those Scythian mummies, Scythians were NOT Indo-Iranian at all. Indo-Iranians lived thousands of years before the Scythians. Scythians were actually (modern) Iranic tribes HEAVELY mixed with the NATIVE Steppes peoples!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Once again, Maykop AND Yamna are much older that these cultures in Easter Europe.
    I said that Yamna gave birth to Indo Iranien cultures Adrnovo, Afanasevo, and Sinishta which eventulley spread into india. Alo that proto Balto Slavic culture Corded ware also came from Yamna.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Also, according to me PROTO-IEans that migrated into the Caucasus (Maykop Horizon) were the same folks that migrated into the Central Asia/Indus Valley!
    There is absoultly no evidence of that. Just because Indus valley seems mid eastern does not mean the indo iranien part of them is orignalley mid eastern plus i doubt they had much to do with mid eastern cultures. Like Hindus in india today are very diff from muslims but muslim culture has litte to do with sumerians so i dont know. There is no evidence of the indo iranien language migrating from the caucus how do u explain the sytheins. Indo Iraniens come from Afanasevo, Adronovo, and Sinshta cultures. just look at what wikpedia page on Indo iraniens says it says nothing of the caucus mountains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians.

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    Proto-Indo-Europeans that mograted into the Maykop Horizon and Central Asia / Indus Valley belonged mostly to J2a (& G2a) folks !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    I said that Yamna gave birth to Indo Iranien cultures Adrnovo, Afanasevo, and Sinishta which eventulley spread into india. Alo that proto Balto Slavic culture Corded ware also came from Yamna.
    Maybe and maybe NOT. You don't have evidences about this either!
    Once again, Afanasevo is NOT Indo-IRANIAN, but Tocharian ! There’re many indications that Tocharians (R1a-Z93) came actually from West Asia. I'm not sure about other cultures.

    Wikipedia is not reliable. Wikipedia page on Indo-Iranians is written by a bunch of amateurs!

    There's some of hg. J2a in Central Asia and the Indus Valley. According to me those folks from West Asia brought Indo-European language to Central Asia (the same folks that brought Indo-European language into the Maykop Horizon)..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    I'm not denying that I2a is from the Cimmerians.
    So the I2a Kurdish conversation is done we agree on where it came from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    But I'm just saying that Cimmerians were not really Iranic people.
    true but they defintley could have been. They lived right next to the iNdo Iranien sythiens and had similar culture and where described as light haired like sythiens and tocherians and early indo Iranian remains and not like modern people in that area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Also, who's saying that the mummies in Central Asia are (proto-)Indo-Iranian? And about which mummies are you actually talking about?
    The Andronovo, Afanasvo, and sintashta cultures where very very early Indo Iraniens. the Tarium mummies some are 4,000 years old they where a mix of European and east asian the european came from the first Indo iranien speakers because they came from russia. 4,000 years ago is before Indo Iranians ever came to India so why where they in west china before india if they migrated from the caucus through iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    If you mean those Scythian mummies, Scythians were NOT Indo-Iranian at all. Indo-Iranians lived thousands of years before the Scythians. Scythians were actually (modern) Iranic tribes HEAVELY mixed with the NATIVE Steppes peoples!
    Sytheins where Indo iranien this has been known from historian since like the 1800's. We know this because of some writting we have of their language., Their culture decends from Indo iranien cultures that existed in asia 2,000 years before them. Also we have Y DNA, mtDNA, hair color, and eye color from tagar sytheins and indo iraniens from 4,000 and 3,800ybp all of those actgories where a match so we pretty much know for a fact sytheins where indo iranien.

    I dont now what u mean by modern Iranic tribes if u mean iran sytheins where nothing like modern iraniens. Phiscalley they where white and had mainly blonde hair and light eyes and where also known for red hair. There is no doubt in the world that they originally genetically came from Europe. They stayed did not inetr marry a whole lot with other people because DNA from Adrnovo culture from 3,800ybp had nearly identical Y DNA, mtDNA, hair color, and eye color to less than 2,000 year old Sythein remains so for about 2,000 years they almost did not inter marry at all.

    But the ones in chian and siberia inter married a ton that is why tarium mummies had mtDNA C4 and alot of black hair(almost no European, mid easterns, and north africans have true black hair). Also why R1a still exists at over 40% in south siberia today. Also sytheins and other Indo Iranians where almost completely killed off by migrating Turkic trbes from eastern asia about 2,000-2,500ybp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Maybe and maybe NOT. You don't have evidences about this either!
    Once again, Afanasevo is NOT Indo-IRANIAN, but Tocharian ! There’re many indications that Tocharians (R1a-Z93) came actually from West Asia. I'm not sure about other cultures.

    Wikipedia is not reliable. Wikipedia page on Indo-Iranians is written by a bunch of amateurs!

    There's some of hg. J2a in Central Asia and the Indus Valley. According to me those folks from West Asia brought Indo-European language to Central Asia (the same folks that brought Indo-European language into the Maykop Horizon)..
    why are u so stubborn about this. Experts have believed what i just said since th 1950's people who study the culture for a living. Now we have DNA from those cultures and they had R1a1a not a suprise. Also R1a Z93 is NOT I REPEAT NOT FROM WEST ASIA THE ONLY EVIDENCE IS POPULATION DIVERSTY WHICH IS NOT THE BEST WAY TO FIND WHERE A HAPLOGROUP ORIGNATED because if a population in west Asia or india is bigger than in europe then it will have more diversty even though it is younger.

    the tocherians where Indo iranien we have ancient writting from Tocherians. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WEST ASIA SPREAD INDO EUROPEAN LANGUAGES AT ALL. it was probably a mainly west asian group of indo iraniens who brought it to india but they got the indo iranien lnaguage from people from central asia who got it from russia.

    How do u explain the sytheins they had nothing to do with west asia yet they where indo iranien and had nearly identical y dna, mtdna, hair color, and eye color to adrnovo remains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Proto-Indo-Europeans that mograted into the Maykop Horizon and Central Asia / Indus Valley belonged mostly to J2a (& G2a) folks !
    where is the J2a and G2a in central asia and areas indo iranien sytheins and tocherians lived.

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    Scythians were NOT INDO-Iranian, dude. Iranians evolved from INDO-Iranian, like Indo-Aryans evolved from Indo-Iranians.

    What I mean is that Scythians were NOT PROTO-Iranians at all. They were just simply Iranians mixed with the native population in the Steppes.

    Tarim Basin Mummies DNA is actually closer to the Greeks than to the Eastern Europeans. And I'm actually sure that those mummies belonged to Asian R1a-Z93 and not to European R1a-Z283! http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/11/u7-in-rostov-scythians.html


    Also modern Iranian populations are DIRECT descendatns of Ancient Iranic nations, like Sogdians, Parthians, Persians and the Medes.
    Eastern Europeans have nothing to do with the Sogdians, Parthians, Persians and the Medes, period!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    where is the J2a and G2a in central asia and areas indo iranien sytheins and tocherians lived.
    There's LOTS of J2a in Central Asia & Indus Valley!
    http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/12/...tdna-from.html

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    Of course they belonged to asia R1a Z93 because it was Indo Iraniens like them who brought it to asia. Indo Iranien IS A LANGUAGE it was named INdo Iranien by people in the 1800's because iraniens and Indians spoke it. The reason Indo European lanuages are called that is English figured out Indians spoke a related language to the ones in Europe and thought it was just Europe and India get it Indo European.

    Sythiens spoke a Indo iranien language dont get it confused that u have to be Iranien or Indian to speak that type of language. Medes, Persians, Sogdians etc where later Indo iraniens they get their language from the same source as sytheins in CENTRAL ASIA AND SIBERIA NOT NOT WEST ASIA. I never said eastern Europeans had anything to do with those west asian speaking indo iraniens.

    but pre historic russians have alot to do with them. Pre historic russians spoke the ancestral language of Indo iranien ten spread to central asia 5,000ybp. Many things happened and eventulley the language spread to around iran. This can also explain why Indo iraniens peaking people in the middle east and india have much higher amounts of european aust. DNA than Afro Asiatic speaking people in the mid east and north africa like arabs, egyptiens, or sarmartiens(decended from ancient Jews).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    There's LOTS of J2a in Central Asia & Indus Valley!
    http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/12/...tdna-from.html
    i undertsand but not all indo iraniens had J2a. There is no connection with Y DNA J and the spread of Indo european languages in Europe and asia. the Indo Iranien marker is R1a1a1b2 later they inter married with J2a people and then may have spread it in later migrations in india.

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    i undertsand but not all indo iraniens had J2a. There is no connection with Y DNA J and the spread of Indo european languages in Europe and asia. the Indo Iranien marker is R1a1a1b2 later they inter married with J2a people and then may have spread it in later migrations in india.
    No, true J2a Iranians (Aryans) intermarried in Central Asia with Central Asian R1a-Z93. True Aryans were actually Bactrians, Sogdians, Parthians, Persians and the Medes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    No, J2a Aryans intermaaried with Central Asian R1a-Z93 in Central Asia. True Aryans were actually Bactrians, Sogdians, Parthians, Persians and the Medes.
    From what i know only Indo Iraniens in Iran and india called themselves Aryans so a good word to repsent all Indo iraniens including Sytheins is Indo Iranien. Where is the evidence Indo Iranien culture spread from iraq and Turkey. Once again how do u explain the sytheins who where as white as u can get they defintley where not a mix of central asia and west asian there was a european origin.

    Here is basicalley how Indo Iranien languages spread. proto Indo Iranien was spoken in central and northern russia 6,000-5,000ybp. It spread east of the Caspien sea about 5,000-4,000ybp and kept spreading in central asia.

    One branch migrated from central asia towards the area of iran about 4,000-4,500ybp and seem's to have traded and mixed alot with mid eastern civlizations around Iraq and Iran. They kept mainly Indo Iranien R1a1a1b1, Indo Iranien religion, and many Indo Iranian traditions like the war chariot. They probably lost most of their orignal Indo iranien blood. They conquered Iran then spread to India 3,500-4,000ybp and conquered the Indus valley civlization making themselves the upper caste and the leaders and changed the religion. They are the ones who wrote the Rig Veda which is a 3,500 year old Indo Aryan book, Oh yeah i forgot to mention it was the Indo iraniens who became civlized and mixed with mid easterns who called themselves aryans but i dont know sytheins may have also had a name like that too.

    The other branch spread from central Asia to south siberia and west china 4,000-5,000ybp and some stayed in central asia. They mixed alot with the east asians which is why the 4,000 year old tarium mummies where a mix of east asian and European. Some where heavily influenced by Chinese civilization and left many of their tradition like Tocherians. But it seems they kept most of the orignal Indo Iranian blood and cultrally groups like Sytheins kept the original Indo Iranian culture. Sytheins and other Indo Iranians then migrated west into far eastern Europe and around the black sea.

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    Arya Varta / Airyana Vaeja = URHEIMAT (original homeland) of Aryan race was a very MOUTNAINOUS Area, with high mountains. Russia/ Eastern Europe is not mountainous at all. Iranian Plateasu (Zagros and Elbourz) are very high!




    No, Iranian religions are from the (J2a & R1a) Sumerians. The Sumerians were the first known SUN worshippers!




    Sumerian SUN god UTU


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    Sumerian Samarra bowl, 7000 years old !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Arya Varta / Airyana Vaeja = URHEIMAT (originalhomeland) of Aryan race was a very MOUTNAINOUS Area, with high mountains. Russia/ Eastern Europe is not mountainous at all. Iranian Plateasu (Zagros andElbourz) are very high!




    No Iranian religion is from the Sumerians. The Sumerianswere the first known SUN worshippers






    Sumerian SUN god UTU

    sure the art and other things of indo iraniens in iran and i guess india too looked similar to mid eastern people. but the indo iranien religious bevies and Gods not art is in the same family as what Indo European people in Europe like Germans and Greeks had. Click here it explains the Indo European relgion. I am pretty sure ancient Persians did not have a Indo European religion they kept the native iranien religion.

    I think u are confused by words European historians in the 1800's created the idea the Aryan race. They saw that Indians had a similar language as Europeans and religion to ancient Europeans so they concluded a group of Europeans migrated to india. also since some Indo iranien ethnic groups like Pahsuten and Kalash where known for blonde hair and blue eyes. Germans connected that with them. So they thought a group of Germans or nordics went to India and where the Aryans then gave Aryan as the name for all europeans or ones known for blonde hair it was pretty much just Germans who did that. Then hitler who was a raciest towards jews and some other people i think also Slavic speakers mixed up alot of thing sin history. And somehow thought the Germans where the real Aryans and he made Germans angre at europe for punishing them after world war 1 and made them aryan proud even though they had no idea what it meant then that started world war 2.

    All i know is Aryan is what the Indo Iranian speakers that spread to Iran and India from central asia and orignally russia called themselves i dont know if the original Indo Iranian speakers where called aryans. So sure Aryans came from iran that does not prove the origin of the Indo Iranian language is Iran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Sumerian Samarra bowl, 8000 years old !
    that really shocking i am suprised they had a swastika because that was a Aryan symbol. But there have been 12,000 year old swatikas found in austira and Russia so i dont think one symbol is strong evidence. The swastika has been used by even native Americans and chinese so it does not mean for a fact someone is indo Iranian if they have a swastika it is a symbol that can be recreated.

    Also i think other indo Europeans used swastika in the same way as Aryans in iran and india did. I dont know how much they used the swastika anyways i think the swastika has been overrated because of the nazi's. I think u make some good points the indo iranien migration is probably not very smple maybe they did migrate through russia then iraq and then eventuley india but i really doubt it.

    The 8,000 year old swatiska if it really is 8,000 years old may mean this type of swatiska spread from sumeria-maykop-stepppes and that is why many indo europeans used it. I think proto Indo European culture and language deifntley had influnces by Maykop which had mid eastern parts to it. The language was spread by central Russians and Ukrainians not Maykop people though.

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    Huh??? Have you read the article. That article does actually mention a modern Iranic language Avesta (proto-Kurdish), Mithra (SUN) etc. The SUN and FIRE have a very important part in real Indo-European religions.

    Zoroastrianism, dualism, daevas, Avesta language do all belong to Indo European religions. I know everything about Iranic religions. I'm an Yezidi Kurd. My religion, the Yezidism, is actually Iranic (Indo-European).

    The SUN deity Mithra has Indo-Iranian roots. Mithra was a SUN deity of the Medes/Persians, Mitra is also the SUN deity according to the Vedic traditions.



    Swastika represents the SUN! And the Sumerians were the FIRST known people that worshipped the SUN! Sumerian SUN god UTU (8000 years old) :

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    So the I2a Kurdish conversation is done we agree on where it came from.



    true but they defintley could have been. They lived right next to the iNdo Iranien sythiens and had similar culture and where described as light haired like sythiens and tocherians and early indo Iranian remains and not like modern people in that area.



    The Andronovo, Afanasvo, and sintashta cultures where very very early Indo Iraniens. the Tarium mummies some are 4,000 years old they where a mix of European and east asian the european came from the first Indo iranien speakers because they came from russia. 4,000 years ago is before Indo Iranians ever came to India so why where they in west china before india if they migrated from the caucus through iran.



    Sytheins where Indo iranien this has been known from historian since like the 1800's. We know this because of some writting we have of their language., Their culture decends from Indo iranien cultures that existed in asia 2,000 years before them. Also we have Y DNA, mtDNA, hair color, and eye color from tagar sytheins and indo iraniens from 4,000 and 3,800ybp all of those actgories where a match so we pretty much know for a fact sytheins where indo iranien.

    I dont now what u mean by modern Iranic tribes if u mean iran sytheins where nothing like modern iraniens. Phiscalley they where white and had mainly blonde hair and light eyes and where also known for red hair. There is no doubt in the world that they originally genetically came from Europe. They stayed did not inetr marry a whole lot with other people because DNA from Adrnovo culture from 3,800ybp had nearly identical Y DNA, mtDNA, hair color, and eye color to less than 2,000 year old Sythein remains so for about 2,000 years they almost did not inter marry at all.

    But the ones in chian and siberia inter married a ton that is why tarium mummies had mtDNA C4 and alot of black hair(almost no European, mid easterns, and north africans have true black hair). Also why R1a still exists at over 40% in south siberia today. Also sytheins and other Indo Iranians where almost completely killed off by migrating Turkic trbes from eastern asia about 2,000-2,500ybp.
    as a whole Iranians of Today are "white" people, not only 'caucasian' but 'white' for skin (the darker hues of white skin, it is true): always the same mistake with anglo-saxon people - look at their tin skin, not at their exposed parts! only a light influence of 'south-asian' ( from Pakistan-Indies) influence some darker skins, according to places, bit it remains a minority -
    IT WAS JUST AN ANTHROPOLOGIC PRECISION

    I do not believe all Scythians or old Iranians of Steppes were light pigmented (even the "pure europoids" without mongolid genes) but surely they were very lighter (mean) than today iranians; but in today Iran Lurs/Luri show lighter pigmentation as some afghan minorities - that does not exclude an I-E origin in "dark" Iran before a colonization of Steppes and N-Caucasus by them and subsequent mixture with blonds steppes tribes with the return of some mixed tribes to Iran with a different way of life, more warlike and more nomadic... here I do not agree nor disagree with you because my mind is not already made...
    that said, I find some of your points are sensible, as Goga's ones too. Hard to give an at hand answer even if new surveys give us new interesting looks on History...

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    I don't know much about light features etc., since I'm absolutely not interested in the PSEUDO-science, but as far as I know Y-DNA hg. J2a is a PURE Caucasoid haplogroup…

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Huh??? Have you read the article. That article does actually mention a modern Iranic language Avesta (proto-Kurdish), Mithra (SUN) etc. The SUN and FIRE have a very important part in real Indo-European religions.

    Zoroastrianism, dualism, daevas, Avesta language do all belong to Indo European religions. I know everything about Iranic religions. I'm an Yezidi Kurd. My religion, the Yezidism, is actually Iranic (Indo-European).

    The SUN deity Mithra has Indo-Iranian roots. Mithra was a SUN deity of the Medes/Persians, Mitra is also the SUN deity according to the Vedic traditions.



    Swastika represents the SUN! And the Sumerians were the FIRST known people that worshipped the SUN! Sumerian SUN god UTU (8000 years old) :
    Sumerian civilization started only 4,900ybp so why are u saying 8,000ybp the people who spoke the Sumerian language are suppose to have arrived 6,500-6,000ybp. Also Sumerians spoke in the Semitic branch of the Afro Asiatic language which is unrelated to Indo European languages and is about 16,000 years old. So Sumerians defintley are not the source of Indo European languages. I had no idea there was a connection in their religion. In culture though Sumerians and semetics have nothing to do with Indo european culture.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The original Indo Iranian speakers would have been white. If u think white is not a good way to define european because i guess ethnic groups in the caucus like Georgians also have white skin. Their DNA proved they where European aust. DNA did and mtDNA they had specifically european subclades like U5 and U2. mtDNA U2 was found in 37,985 uear old mtDNA sample in European Russia and U5 was found in 31,155 year old mtDNA sample in Czech republic so there is no doubt they came form Europe geneticalley.

    I never said people in the country iran are white or European because they are not. It is true that non european people who speak a European language have 6-10% north euro(orignal paloithci european aust dna group and define being european) unlike for example Samartiens(decended from ancient Jews Semetic speakers), and Assyrians(decended from ancient assyrains Semitic speakers) who live in the same area but have less than 1% north euro.

    There is defintley a European thing going on in the genetics of indo Iranian speakers that does not exist in non indo Iranian speakers.

    when i say aust. DNA i almost always am talking about the globe13 test. to see where i got my info click here

    Iranien indo iranien(modern country Iran) north euro=5.3%

    Kurd indo iranien north euro= 4.7%

    Assyrian semetic north euro=0%

    Duze Semetic north Euro=0.6%

    Pashuten Indo iranien (biggest ethnic group in Afghanistan) north euro=14.5%(that is almost as much as what Greeks have)

    Bengali Indo Iranien speakers in north east india north euro=5.3%

    Bhunji Draviden speakers in northeast india north euro= 0%

    I think there is a obvious connection with Indo Iranien language and north euro in india and west asia. Also Indo iranien speaking indians have way way way more west asian than draviden speaking indians in the same area which makes me think thhey came from iran where west asian aust. DNA is most spread out and extremly popular.

    here is a map of west Asian i have made it is not completely Finnish i got confused because the dravidens and indo iranien Indians have such different aust dna that i dont know if northeast and other areas of india should repsent dravidens or indo Iranians. it gives a basic idea how it is spread out u can see Iran is domninted by it it ranges from 44-55% in Iranien, afghan, and pakistani ethnic groups. I am almost done with my north euro map i have noticed a trend with indo iranien languages and high amounts of north euro compared to non indo Iranians. But not with west Asian because Assyrians have just as high west Asian as Kurds then southwest Asian becomes more popular around isreal, Arabia, and north Africa but their afro Asiatic languages are not the reason why west asian is less popular.

    (IMG)http://www.eupedia.com/forum/attachm...tid=5954&stc=1(/IMG)

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