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Thread: New migration map of haplogroup R1a1a

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    Sumerian civilization started only 4,900ybp so why are u saying 8,000ybp the people who spoke the Sumerian language are suppose to have arrived 6,500-6,000ybp. Also Sumerians spoke in the Semitic branch of the Afro Asiatic language which is unrelated to Indo European languages and is about 16,000 years old. So Sumerians defintley are not the source of Indo European languages. I had no idea there was a connection in their religion. In culture though Sumerians and semetics have nothing to do with Indo european culture.
    Huh??? Sumerians first settled in the South Mesopotamia (Babylon) between ca. 4500 BCE (Uruku period). That is 6500 years ago. Sumerians came from North, from the Mountains, they were NOT Semitic at all. They spoke a 'Language Isolate', maybe even an ancestor of Caucasian (Hurrian) and Indo-European languages!

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    Another example where aust. DNA helps tell the ethnic origins of a language. The Uralic language is spoken mainly by extremly white people in Russia, Finalnd, and northern Scandnavia. Well the Russians used to be indoe uropean but where conquered by uralic cultures 4,000-5,000ybp modern uralic russians have almost only brown eyes just like 5,000-6,000 year old remains of the indo europeans who where later conquered by uralics.

    When u think of uralic speaker it is okay to think of a blonde finnish person but they where not the first Uralics. All Uralic europeans finnish have 4.8% siberian and 1`,2% artic non uralic europeans who live near them have les than 1% of both. Well i guess baltic have more because 5,000ybp they where uralic speakers then they where conquered by corded ware culture 4,500-5,000ybp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    I don't know much about light features etc., since I'm absolutely not interested in the PSEUDO-science, but as far as I know Y-DNA hg. J2a is a PURE Caucasoid haplogroup…
    i think u should know this without having to be a expert i dont know what pseudo science is. I do know what experts thing are the genes that create pale skin in european and they also exist in north africans and mid eastern who are also caucasin but at a much lower rate. also that blonde hair is a european trait my guess is 20,000-50,000ybp somewhere in central europe. the 3,800 year old adronovo culture remains all had pale skin, nad mainly light hair and light eyes, also thier aust. dna proves they where european.

    Another intersting thing is dravdiens have a caucasin skull and facial features, hair texture, body build but they are not caucasin. Their aust DNA group is called south asian in the globe13 test it is not in the caucasin family it is a little more related to oceania Mongoloid family than than caucasin family. Also they have no Caucasin Y DNA or mtDNA they have some mtDNA U that comes from caucain inter marraige. Their mtDNA and Y DNA is in the Oceania mongloid family or in its own family.

    north africans, and mid eastern have like brown hair. Caucasins are the only people that have brown hair and i am pretty sure it is the most popular hair color. So when talking about Caucasins i dont mention dravidens anymore they must be close relatives probably split over 70,000ybp. what this means is the caucasin face, hair texture, and body build is older than the caucasin race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Huh??? Sumerians first settled in the South Mesopotamia (Babylon) between ca. 4500 BCE (Uruku period). That is 6500 years ago. Sumerians came from North, from the Mountains, they were NOT Semitic at all. They spoke a 'Language Isolate', maybe even an ancestor of Caucasian (Hurrian) and Indo-European languages!
    the oldest historical records of Sumeria go back to 2,900bc aka 4,900ybp. Sumerians ancestors or just the people who spoke the ancestral form of their loanguage arrived probably in 4,500-4,900bc aka 6,500-6,900ybp.

    soryy i thought they where semetic but that does not matter they did not speak a indo european language. there are many many languages that have been sugessted to be realted and one of them are indo european. there might be a connection with indo european languages and sumerians if sumerians came from the north mayb the caucus mountains.

    but that does not mean indo european languages spread from west asia we know they spread from almost only russia and ukriane. maybe orignalley proto proto proto indo european came from northern iraq then spread to the caucus then to russia but i dont know if there is alot of evidence for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Somebody else calculated it, not me. Also, according to this scientific study there was no migration of R1a from Europe into Central Asia: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0034288

    "The prevailing Y-chromosome lineage in Pashtun and Tajik (R1a1a-M17), has the highest observed diversity among populations of the Indus Valley [46]. R1a1a-M17 diversity declines toward the Pontic-Caspian steppe where the mid-Holocene R1a1a7-M458 sublineage is dominant [46]. R1a1a7-M458 was absent in Afghanistan, suggesting that R1a1a-M17 does not support, as previously thought [47], expansions from the Pontic Steppe [3], bringing the Indo-European languages to Central Asia and India."

    "Furthermore, BATWING results indicate that the Afghan populations split from Iranians, Indians and East Europeans at about 10.6 kya (95% CI7,100–15,825), which marks the start of the Neolithic revolution and the establishment of the farming communities."


    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0034288
    That's because this study was published by pseudo-geneticists who have not realised that M458 is the western Slavic branch, descended from the Corded Ware culture, and not the eastern Indo-Iranian branch descended from the Abashevo-Poltavka and Sintashta-Petrovka cultures. Don't cite idiots if you don't want to look like one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    That's because this study was published by pseudo-geneticists who have not realised that M458 is the western Slavic branch, descended from the Corded Ware culture, and not the eastern Indo-Iranian branch descended from the Abashevo-Poltavka and Sintashta-Petrovka cultures. Don't cite idiots if you don't want to look like one.
    I know ur right and u know more than anyone on this website but Goga is just trying to figure stuff out. Sure he made a mistake he wont want to agree with u if u say dont cite idots if u dont want to look like one. i think u made a mistake on ur Germanic paternal lineages and combing all I1(except Uralic branches) and I2a2.

    I have learned because i have argued and debated a ton since i could talk. Even if ur completely right if u insult the other person no matter how much u want to and how right u are they will never agree with u or learn. I try to use my words in a way i can still say what i want without saying it in a way that will turn people off from agreeing with me. When i am arguing with someone even when i know their right if they insult me i never listen or agree.

    I am not saying u should be soft and say everyone is right. What i do is try to convince people in the way u say it not just ur reason for why ur right. I have seen u uselly do that.

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    Sure, idiots affiliated to different universities in the world.

    Marc Haber,
    Affiliations: The Lebanese American University,Chouran, Beirut, Lebanon, Evolutionary Biology Institute, Pompeu FabraUniversity, Barcelona, Spain

    Daniel E. Platt,
    Affiliation: Bioinformatics and Pattern Discovery,IBM T. J. Watson Research Centre, Yorktown Heights, New York, United States ofAmerica

    Maziar Ashrafian Bonab,
    Affiliation: Biological Sciences, School ofBiological Sciences, University of Portsmouth, Portsmouth, United Kingdom

    Sonia C. Youhanna,
    Affiliation: The Lebanese American University,Chouran, Beirut, Lebanon X

    David F. Soria-Hernanz,
    Affiliations: Evolutionary Biology Institute,Pompeu Fabra University, Barcelona, Spain, The Genographic Project, NationalGeographic Society, Washington, D.C., United States of America

    Begoña Martínez-Cruz,
    Affiliation: Evolutionary Biology Institute, PompeuFabra University, Barcelona, Spain

    Bouchra Douaihy,
    Affiliation: The Lebanese American University,Chouran, Beirut, Lebanon

    Michella Ghassibe-Sabbagh,
    Affiliation: The Lebanese American University,Chouran, Beirut, Lebanon

    Hoshang Rafatpanah,
    Affiliation: Mashhad University of MedicalSciences, Mashhad, Iran X

    Mohsen Ghanbari,
    Affiliation: Mashhad University of MedicalSciences, Mashhad, Iran X

    John Whale,
    Affiliation: Biological Sciences, School ofBiological Sciences, University of Portsmouth, Portsmouth, United Kingdom

    Oleg Balanovsky,
    Affiliation: Research Centre for Medical Genetics,Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Moscow, Russia XR.

    Spencer Wells,
    Affiliation: The Genographic Project, NationalGeographic Society, Washington, D.C., United States of America

    David Comas,
    Affiliation: Evolutionary Biology Institute, PompeuFabra University, Barcelona, Spain

    Chris Tyler-Smith,
    Affiliation: Wellcome Trust Genome Campus, TheWellcome Trust Sanger Institute, Hinxton, Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom

    Pierre A. Zalloua,
    Affiliations: The Lebanese American University,Chouran, Beirut, Lebanon, Harvard School of Public Health, Harvard University,Boston, Massach

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Sure, idiots affiliated to different universities in the world.

    Marc Haber,
    Affiliations: The Lebanese American University,Chouran, Beirut, Lebanon, Evolutionary Biology Institute, Pompeu FabraUniversity, Barcelona, Spain

    Daniel E. Platt,
    Affiliation: Bioinformatics and Pattern Discovery,IBM T. J. Watson Research Centre, Yorktown Heights, New York, United States ofAmerica

    Maziar Ashrafian Bonab,
    Affiliation: Biological Sciences, School ofBiological Sciences, University of Portsmouth, Portsmouth, United Kingdom

    Sonia C. Youhanna,
    Affiliation: The Lebanese American University,Chouran, Beirut, Lebanon X

    David F. Soria-Hernanz,
    Affiliations: Evolutionary Biology Institute,Pompeu Fabra University, Barcelona, Spain, The Genographic Project, NationalGeographic Society, Washington, D.C., United States of America

    Begoña Martínez-Cruz,
    Affiliation: Evolutionary Biology Institute, PompeuFabra University, Barcelona, Spain

    Bouchra Douaihy,
    Affiliation: The Lebanese American University,Chouran, Beirut, Lebanon X

    Michella Ghassibe-Sabbagh,
    Affiliation: The Lebanese American University,Chouran, Beirut, Lebanon

    Hoshang Rafatpanah,
    Affiliation: Mashhad University of MedicalSciences, Mashhad, Iran X

    Mohsen Ghanbari,
    Affiliation: Mashhad University of MedicalSciences, Mashhad, Iran X

    John Whale,
    Affiliation: Biological Sciences, School ofBiological Sciences, University of Portsmouth, Portsmouth, United Kingdom

    Oleg Balanovsky,
    Affiliation: Research Centre for Medical Genetics,Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Moscow, Russia XR.

    Spencer Wells,
    Affiliation: The Genographic Project, NationalGeographic Society, Washington, D.C., United States of America

    David Comas,
    Affiliation: Evolutionary Biology Institute, PompeuFabra University, Barcelona, Spain

    Chris Tyler-Smith,
    Affiliation: Wellcome Trust Genome Campus, TheWellcome Trust Sanger Institute, Hinxton, Cambridgeshire, United Kingdom

    Pierre A. Zalloua,
    Affiliations: The Lebanese American University,Chouran, Beirut, Lebanon, Harvard School of Public Health, Harvard University,Boston, Massach
    but they where wrong they did not look at SNP tree. Which shows the older branches are in Europe. Also that Indo European languages are the obvious source of R1a1a1b in Europe and Asia. i dont need to explain what maciamo already said about the cultures. One thing i want to add is Y DNA from Adronovo and Afanasevo had R1a1a same with Corded ware. So ancient DNA totally backs up the whole Indo European think.

    Yamna cultue is most likley the source since Corded ware culture and Abashevo-Poltavka, Sintashta-Petrovka, Afanasevo, Adrnovo cultures descend from Yamna. It all connects also German scientist have a bunch of mtDNA and 6 y dna samples from yamna culture but have not made it public which is annoying. The 6 y dna samples where buried in Kurgens traditional Indo European burial which means they probably where not forigners. They may have had a diff y dna haplogroup but since all Indo Iranien remains had R1a1a except one had C i think they will have R1a1a. I am sure if they test them for R1a1a1b they will have that.

    So far ancient Y DNA totally backs up the idea Indo Europeans spread R1a and R1b but not all of it. i wonder if Balto Slavic languages and Indo Iranien languages are most related to each other. Since both decend from Yamna culture and both decend from R1a1a1b.

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    Whatever, just show me 1 (just one !!) TRUE current academic anno 2013 (and not racist (East) European amateur bloggers) that supports your WILD fairy tales! The FACT is that there's no MODERN academic paper at all that supports this fantasy!

    Also, Corded is probably European R1a-Z283 and R1a branches in Central Asia belong to R1a-Z93.


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    Why do u keep on arguing obvious stuff. I am not eastern European neither is Maciamo. These are not wild ferry tales what evidence do u have. Besides just listning to diversty rate. The oldest r1a subclades ARE NOT IN WEST ASIA they are in Europe the ancestor to the Indo Iranien clade is in eastern Europe. R1a1a1b was spread to asia by Indo iraniens. the earlest Indo Iranien speakers lived in cental asia.

    many experts agree with us about the spread of Indo iraniens maybe not the spread of R1a. well R1a1a was found in y dna of those cultres so it is pretty obvous. It is a fact Indo Iranien speakers have north euro aust. dna in glob13 test while non indo iranien speakers in the same area rarelly have 1%. The first Indo iranien speakers maybe not the first Ind Aryans where European genetically i am not being raciest it is in ancient remains. i am using that to figure out their origin and as evidence they migrated out of Russia.

    central asia R1a Z92 is the brother to European R1a Z283 they come from the same source. The cultures u say where not Indo Iranian their remains had R1a1a and are believed by most experts to be the first Indo Iranians. Those cultures come from the same ancestor culture in Russia as Corded ware so it makes sense that Corded ware remains have R1a1a to and that yamna culture had the eastern european and Asian ancestral form R1a1a1b.

    Indo European culture bommed in Russia, Ukraine, and caucus. In my opinon the language and most of the culture migrated from the north caucus with R1b M269 maciamo is the one who thought of that. The languages spread from mainly russia and Ukriane. I am willing it was mid easterns who spread the language to Russia and Ukraine and that is where my y dan and language originally came from, it seems u are not willing to admit that it was white people who where the first to speak a Indo Iranian language or spread Y DNA R1a1a1b in Asia.

    I know it seems i am trying to make everything about Indo Europeans white but i am not i am willing to say they where east asian or whatever. Maciamo at first being Celtic and Germanic was willing to say that Italo Germanic languages and their R1b spread from Turkey/Anatolia.

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    I don’t mean you or Maciamo. I do really like Maciamo, he's truly a very great European fella. I like this informative site very much. But I'm sick of Eastern European bloggers especially from Poland that distort historic facts and genetic data. Those East Europeans do engulf us with lies and pure propaganda.

    I want to be convinced and If you just show me 1 academic paper that can change my mind I'll be very grateful. I want to see the evidence. Proof me that you're right!

    No matter how long you wait the real truth comes always to the surface!

    The thing is that all the current MODERN academic papers I read confirm my ideas.

    It's all about quality and NOT quantity!

    I'm sorry if I insulted somebody,

    Bye

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    Goga

    The Kurgen theory which started in the 1950's totally agrees with what me and Maciamo have been saying. here is a link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis.

    Did u notice those academic papers said it look like the older belives that R1a was spread from Pontiac Caspian steppes. This means other experts agree with us. We are not just going off of our own idea we go off of SNP DNA tree's, ancient DNA samples, and modern DNA samples.

    Te fact that Sumerians where did not speak a Afro Asiatic language when almost everyone in the middle east and north Africa not counting Indo Iranians speaks a Afro Asiatic language. Also that u said they come from the north makes me think they originated north of Afro Asiatic territory.

    here is a map of afro asiatic languages


    Afro Asiatic languages are about 16,000 years old. They probably originated in southwest Asia around Israel and southern Iraq. They reason east Africans speak a afro Asiatic language. Is the same reason they have mainly mid eastern Y DNA J1, over 30% southwest Asian aus. DNA in globe 13 test, and why some have caucasin skull shapes and paler skin than other Africans. The bible mentions east Africans mainly Ethiopians Moses wife was Ethiopian Moses who lived over 3,000 years ago most likely had Y DNA J. East Africans where connected with the civilized world which originally was just around the middle east. Also 9,000ybp mtDNA in syria all but 2 had sub sharen African L2a which is Ethiopians most popular mtDNA haplogroup and extremely surprisingly one had Mongoloid C1 same with 7,500 year old mtDNA in north west Russia. So basically i am saying they had alot of contact with southwest Asians for well over 10,000 years. Arabs and north africans also have high amounts of east African.

    So if ur right sumerians migrated from the north they probably came from northern Iraq and caucus and possibly more east around Iran. Indo European languages may have started around Armenia and north Iraq which could explain why Armenians speak the oldest indo european language and they are their own branch.

    Since people in eastern Ukriane and central russia 8,000ybp where hunter gathers just becoming farmers. And the indo european language was started by farmers, with advanced clothing, and possibly bronze. And that Bronze and other things would have spread to ukriane and russia through the caucus moauntins maybe the Indo European language came with. Or the ukriaens and russian hunter gathers spoke proto proto Indo Europeans which formed into Indo Europeans after becoming more advanced. And that Maykop culture learned the krugen burail and other indo european cultrall things from the Ukraine and Prussian people. Which is waht most experts have believed since the 1950's

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    ??? Native tribes on the Iranian Plateau and in Kurdistan NEVER spoke Semitic languages. Sumerians came from an area where Semitic languages are and never have been spoken.

    Old dated
    Kurgan theory from the 50s is pretty much dead. We live in the year 2013 and not in 1950, lol. Even Maciamo’s R1b theory destroys Kurgan theory. According to the Kurgan theory proto-Indo-Europeans came from North Europe. But that’s impossible because native haplogroups of that area are hg. N1c and I.

    Maciamo’s theory that Indo-European R1b came from the Iranian Plateau DESTROYS the Kurgan theory.

    Also the theory that Maykop Culture from West Asia, Indo-Europized the Yamna Horizon folks destroys the Kurgan theory.

    R1b theory of Maciamo & Maykop Culture is in favor of the ANATOLIAN Model!

    If Maciamo’s theory about R1b is right then you like it or not proto-Indo-Europeans possessed mostly of West Asian aDNA component. Proto-Indo-Europeans were not Northeast Europeans at all. NorthEast European foragers were actually Mongoloid people.


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    [QUOTE=Goga;412358]??? Native tribes on the Iranian Plateau and in Kurdistan NEVER spoke Semitic languages. Sumerians came from an area where Semitic languages are and never have been spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Old dated Kurgan theory from the 50s is pretty much dead. We live in the year 2013 and not in 1950, lol. Even Maciamo’s R1b theory destroys Kurgan theory. According to the Kurgan theory proto-Indo-Europeans came from North Europe. But that’s impossible because native haplogroups of that area are hg. N1c and I.

    show me evidence their dead because what i have seen almost every expert agree's. and R1a and R1b found in these cultures totally backs up those very intelligent theory's of the 1950's. They had bones and art just like we do just a little more and they where just as smart. Actulely according to the krugen theory Indo europeans started around eastern Ukraine and central russia possibly the caucus because of maykop 6,000 year old kurgen burail but their was also a 6,000 year old kurgen found in southeastern poland(near Ukraine). The kurgen burail spread with Indo European languages.

    Y DNA N1c came to northeast europe with urlaic languages and Kunda culture 8,000ybp Y DNA N is a mongloid haplogroup. y DNA I is native to europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Maciamo’s theory that Indo-European R1b came from the Iranian Plateau DESTROYS the Kurgan theory.

    no it does not he clearly shows R1b L51 later R1b L11 migrating from southern Russia and Ukriane to western Europe and R1b M73 migrating from central russia to central asia with Indo iranien languages. He does have some pre Indo European R1b.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Also the theory that Maykop Culture from West Asia, Indo-Europized the Yamna Horizon folks destroys the Kurgan theory.

    R1b theory of Maciamo & Maykop Culture is in favor of the ANATOLIAN Model!

    Actulley not really the reason why people think maykop was indo european is because they had a kurgen burail, but like i said before a 6,000 year old kurgen was also found in southeast poland. So it is hard to say if it was Ukrainiane and russia whowhere the first Indo European speakers or north caucus people they where probably orignalley from west asia but may have gooten their indo european side from niflunce by urkianen and russians.

    Caucus is not Anatolia. There is no strong evidence of Indo European r1a and R1b branches spreading from Anatolia and the first Indo European people in Anatolia where the Hittites in 1,800bc. Maykop seems to have a west asian origi besides maybe the indo european parts that does not mean Anatolia. that is like saying because Germanic languages where in northern Germany 4,000ybp that the German language originated in France.



    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    If Maciamo’s theory about R1b is right then you like it or not proto-Indo-Europeans possessed mostly of West Asian aDNA component. Proto-Indo-Europeans were not Northeast Europeans at all. NorthEast European foragers were actually Mongoloid people.

    wait a second where is the evidence of a west asian component and indo european languages. No Indo European languages spread from west asia except maybe proto Indo European. Indo Iranien spread with R1a1a1b2 from Yamna- Sintashta culture etc. Balto Slavic spread with R1a1a1b1 with Yamna-Corded ware culture. Germanic Italo Celtic spread from Russia Unknown culture- conquering Bell Beaker and forming into Nordic Bronze age culture for Germanic and Unetice culture for Itao Celtic.

    There is a sign of a north euro aust. DNA component in indo iranien speaking ethnic groups that people in the same area who dont speak indo iranien dont have. Also remains from very very early Indo Iranians show they are European and had mainly light hair and eyes and closest relatives are north east Europeans(that does not mean the language originated there they may have been conquered by earlier Indo Europeans from Russia). there is no west asian connection with European Indo European languges. Once again they most likely spread more north euro aust dna because aust. DNA from neloithic european farmers had over 59% med and less than 29% north euro while modern europeans in the same area have usuelly over 50% north euro. aust. DNA from european hunter gathers in the nelothic age had over 71% north euro which could just mean eventulley hunter gathers became the dominte group genetically.

    but sardine people who have been isolated genetically on that island for over 5,000 years have 71% med and modern Iberian have over 50% they faced indo european invasions only 2,700-2,500ybp and non indo european basque have 59%.

    also from 6,000 and 5,000 year old indo european yamna culture reamins in southern russia almost all had brown eyes they also had pale skin same genes as modern Europeans. theyw here conquered by Uralic cultures 5,000-4,000ybp non Slavic Uralic ethnic groups in that area of Russia have almost only brown eyes unlike Slavic Russians so they most likely mainly decend from yamna culture. also they have some of the highest amount of north euro in Europe at over 70% so Yamna had at least or more.

    only R1b M173 on maciamo's map has to do with Indo Iranians and it obliviously shows it spreading from russia

    also he shows in his R1a map indo iranien r1a Z93 taking the same route.


    He shows R1b M343 originated in iran 18,000 years ago well before Indo european languages. honestly i think proto proto indo european was spoken by caucus or people in Armenia 7,000-8,000ybp possibly sumerians spoke a related language or they spoke another non afro Asiatic lanuage. with high amounts of r1b m269. maciamos maps explain so much which i have been trying to shape in my head it helps alot.

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    It's really remarkable that a large amount of Indians are part of such a subbranch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    show me evidence their dead because what i have seen almost every expert agree's. and R1a and R1b found in these cultures totally backs up those very intelligent theory's of the 1950's. They had bones and art just like we do just a little more and they where just as smart. Actulely according to the krugen theory Indo europeans started around eastern Ukraine and central russia possibly the caucus because of maykop 6,000 year old kurgen burail but their was also a 6,000 year old kurgen found in southeastern poland(near Ukraine). The kurgen burail spread with Indo European languages.

    Y DNA N1c came to northeast europe with urlaic languages and Kunda culture 8,000ybp Y DNA N is a mongloid haplogroup. y DNA I is native to europe.


    Actulley not really the reason why people think maykop was indo european is because they had a kurgen burail, but like i said before a 6,000 year old kurgen was also found in southeast poland. So it is hard to say if it was Ukrainiane and russia whowhere the first Indo European speakers or north caucus people they where probably orignalley from west asia but may have gooten their indo european side from niflunce by urkianen and russians.

    wait a second where is the evidence of a west asian component and indo european languages.
    The oldest Kurgan has been found in West Asia, Göbekli Tepe! Also there's lots of hg. J2a in Ukraine and other east European countries north of the Black Sea. Also there’s more West Asian component in Central Asia and SouthCentral Asia than other components that are not native to that area.

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    There're 5 theories about the origin of Haplogroup R-M17: South Asian origin hypothesis,West Asian origin hypothesis, Central Asian origin hypothesis, Early(pre-Holocene) Eastern European migration hypotheses and Later (Bronzeage) Steppe culture hypothesis.

    West Asian origin hypothesis makes most sense to me, also this theory is still considered to be consistent with known data, while other theories getting less and less support!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M17_(Y-DNA)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    The oldest Kurgan has been found in West Asia, Göbekli Tepe! Also there's lots of hg. J2a in Ukraine and other east European countries north of the Black Sea. Also there’s more West Asian component in Central Asia and SouthCentral Asia than other components that are not native to that area.
    there was also a 6,000 year old kurgen found in southeastern poland. R1b P297 migrated from the caucus to the steppes probably 10,000ybp R1b M269 maybe wa not born in russia but it lived most of its live there. Even indo european R1b all comes from the steppes. Now i think the Indo European language defintley comes from the steppes and the kurgen theory was correct.

    also there is no evidence was so ever that Indo Europeans have anything to do with J2a. Also there is no evidence of a branch of the Indo European language spreading from west asia to anywhere it all came from the steppes. I dont think there is alot of J2a in Ukriane and that does ot mean it is from Indo Europeans where is the high amount of J2a in ireland or south Siberia(where there was heavy Indo iranien settlment for 3,000 years).

    U keep [ushing for west asia but there really is not that much evidence but u could be right at somepoints. i have noticed a weird amount of west Asian in siberia. I think Indo European language probably started in the steppes and spread from the steppes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    there was also a 6,000 year old kurgen found in southeastern poland. R1b P297 migrated from the caucus to the steppes probably 10,000ybp R1b M269 maybe wa not born in russia but it lived most of its live there. Even indo european R1b all comes from the steppes. Now i think the Indo European language defintley comes from the steppes and the kurgen theory was correct.

    also there is no evidence was so ever that Indo Europeans have anything to do with J2a. Also there is no evidence of a branch of the Indo European language spreading from west asia to anywhere it all came from the steppes. I dont think there is alot of J2a in Ukriane and that does ot mean it is from Indo Europeans where is the high amount of J2a in ireland or south Siberia(where there was heavy Indo iranien settlment for 3,000 years).

    U keep [ushing for west asia but there really is not that much evidence but u could be right at somepoints. i have noticed a weird amount of west Asian in siberia. I think Indo European language probably started in the steppes and spread from the steppes.
    Göbekli Tepe is 12000 !!! years old!!!

    About Later (Bronze age) Steppe culture hypothesis:

    "However, in recent discussions of this theory it is considered only to apply to a part of R-M17, making this theory no longer incompatible with other origins theories for R1a more broadly defined (Underhill 2009)."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M17_(Y-DNA)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    There're 5 theories about the origin of Haplogroup R-M17: South Asian origin hypothesis,West Asian origin hypothesis, Central Asian origin hypothesis, Early(pre-Holocene) Eastern European migration hypotheses and Later (Bronzeage) Steppe culture hypothesis.

    West Asian origin hypothesis makes most sense to me, also this theory is still considered to be consistent with known data, while other theories getting less and less support!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M17_(Y-DNA)
    the southasia and west Asian theory are based on diversity because those populations historical have been bigger than in Europe. but the oldest subclades are found in Europe and the indo european ones ancestry to R1a in India and asia are found in the steppes same with ancestral version to indo european r1b. so there is no way it began in west Asia because they have subclades descended of steppe subclades.

    also these people dont consider archaeology and other stuff all they look at is diversity and rarely look at the SNP r1a tree. to figure out where DNA came from its history and stuff like that u need to be like a detective not a scientist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Göbekli Tepe is 12000 !!! years old!!!

    About Later (Bronze age) Steppe culture hypothesis:

    "However, in recent discussions of this theory it is considered only to apply to a part of R-M17, making this theory no longer incompatible with other origins theories for R1a more broadly defined (Underhill 2009)."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M17_(Y-DNA)
    i think u are confused with a 6,000 year old maykop culture kurgen there is nothing about a kurgen at Gobekli tepe.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

    http://www.gobeklitepe.info/who_how_why.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    the southasia and west Asian theory are based on diversity because those populations historical have been bigger than in Europe. but the oldest subclades are found in Europe and the indo european ones ancestry to R1a in India and asia are found in the steppes same with ancestral version to indo european r1b. so there is no way it began in west Asia because they have subclades descended of steppe subclades.

    also these people dont consider archaeology and other stuff all they look at is diversity and rarely look at the SNP r1a tree. to figure out where DNA came from its history and stuff like that u need to be like a detective not a scientist.
    No, 'from the SNP distribution of the "FTDNA R1a1a and subclades project" we know that the oldest branches of R1a were also found in West Asia, although the Asian side of R1a is heavily underrepresented in public data sets.' http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2013/05/r1a-tree.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    i think u are confused with a 6,000 year old maykop culture kurgen there is nothing about a kurgen at Gobekli tepe.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

    http://www.gobeklitepe.info/who_how_why.html
    Gobekli Tepe is the oldest Kurgan to date and it was deliberately buried, like Kurgans in the steppes. Do you know actually what a Kurgan is, lol?
    "Scientists Confirm Gobekli Tepe Was Buried On Purpose in Ancient Times" - http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...s-2654994.html

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    About Later (Bronze age) Steppe culture hypothesis: "However, in recent discussions of this theory it is considered only to apply to a part of R-M17, making this theory no longer incompatible with other origins theories for R1a more broadly defined (Underhill 2009)." : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M17_(Y-DNA)

    About West Asian origin: "A Middle Eastern origin for R-M17 has long been considered a possibility, and is still considered to be consistent with known data (Underhill 2009, Regueiro 2006, Kivisild 2003, and Semino 2000)" :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M17_(Y-DNA)

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    ur article never mentions a kurgen burail trust me maciamo the head of this website and a complete generous would know about this he would be huge news. there is no 12,000 year old kurgen in Anatolia. a kurgen is a special type of burail not just a burial the oldest human remains are buried but not in a kurgen.

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