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Thread: Timeline of I2 from Russian sites

  1. #1
    Regular Member zanipolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a4o

    Ethnic group
    Down Under
    Country: Australia



    Timeline of I2 from Russian sites

    all I2* today living (Caucasus): 5574 BP (3600 BCE)

    I2b ancestor (I2b1 vs. I2b2 separation): 8822 BP (6800 BCE) - note: First farming sites in Thessaly, Greece: 6500 BCE
    I2b1 ancestor: 8490 BP (6500 BCE) - note: First farming sites in Thessaly, Greece: 6500 BCE
    I2b1a (M284+) - British Isles: 4841 BP (2850 BCE) - Grooved Ware of late Neolithic in Britain dated 2900-2200 BCE (builders of Stonehenge)
    I2b1c (P78+) - Continental: 3462 BP (1450 BCE)
    I2b1c separated from I2b1-Continental: 7847 (5850 BCE)
    I2b1 Continental: 5859 BP (3850 BCE)
    I2b2 ancestor off all living I2b2: 4986 BP (3000 BCE)

    I2a ancestor (P37.2+): 10.366 BP (8400 BCE)
    I2a1 (M26+): 10.221 BP (8200 BCE) - this is the "Sardinian group" (plus in Iberia, France)
    I2a (xI2a1): 8535 BP (6500 BCE) - Carcium Pottery Neolithic in the Mediterranean from around 5700 BCE
    I2a3 (L233+) 4424 BP (2400 BCE) - Alps "Noricum group"
    I2a* France: 2892 BP (900 BCE) - France
    I2a2 all ancestor (M423): 7009 BP (5000 BCE)
    I2a2b (L161) - Isles: 6803 BP (4800 BCE) - Britain - note: Early Neolithic in Britain (Long Barrows) from 4400 BCE
    I2a2a (L69) - Dinaric all: 3427 BP (1400 BCE)
    I2a2a Disles (Dinaric-type in Britain): 2985 BP (1000 BCE)
    I2a2a Dinaric all: 2547 BP (550 BCE) - Eastern Europe
    Dinaric North: 1706 BP (300 CE) - Slavic expansion from 500 CE
    Dinaric South: 1761 BP (250 CE) - Slavic expansion from 500 CE


    I2a2a-Disles (Dinaric-type in Britain): 2985 BP (1000 BCE)
    as the signal close in time to the proto-Celtic ethnogenesis:

    Herodotus thought the Cimmerians and the Thracians closely related, writing that both peoples originally inhabited the northern shore of the Black Sea, and both were displaced about 700 BC, by invaders from the east. Whereas the Cimmerians would have departed this ancestral homeland by heading west and south across the Caucasus, the Thracians migrated southwest into the Balkans, where they established a successful and long-lived culture. The Tauri, the original inhabitants of Crimea, are sometimes identified as a people related to the Cimmerians and later the Taurisci.
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

  2. #2
    Great Adventurer sparkey's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    It looks like they're using FTDNA nomenclature. It's a bit dated (2010), so there are some wrong conclusions here that we understand better now, such as:

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    all I2* today living (Caucasus): 5574 BP (3600 BCE)
    Under FTDNA nomenclature, all L596+ ("I2c") and L416+ ("ADR") is I2*, and L596+ and L416+ are far enough from each other that 5574 YBP is very much too young, not to mention that L596+ is not most diverse in the Caucasus (in fact only one of its two major branches is even found there) and L416+ isn't found in the Caucasus at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    I2b ancestor (I2b1 vs. I2b2 separation): 8822 BP (6800 BCE) - note: First farming sites in Thessaly, Greece: 6500 BCE
    Also seems too young, not to mention weirdly precise. Greece is surely too far east unless we're going by a "total displacement" model.

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    I2a ancestor (P37.2+): 10.366 BP (8400 BCE)
    Way too young.

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    I2a (xI2a1): 8535 BP (6500 BCE) - Carcium Pottery Neolithic in the Mediterranean from around 5700 BCE
    Too young, and the conclusion doesn't make any sense. All of the M26- clades are clearly more diverse north of the Mediterranean... even the French outliers veer away from Southern France.

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    I2a2b (L161) - Isles: 6803 BP (4800 BCE) - Britain - note: Early Neolithic in Britain (Long Barrows) from 4400 BCE
    This one is now usually recognized as more diverse on the continent than in Britain, although it's an interesting subject still worth exploring.

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