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Thread: Do you think that smart society of the future (by Eugenics) will be more atheist?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Not really. Our basic morality is genetic, for that reason atheists are as moral as christians or buddhists. There was a lot of research done on kids, before they could be "doctrinated" in morality, and yet they already behave ethically. For example, they will avoid playing with you if you cheat, or they will help you if they see you are hopeless or sad, etc.

    The simplest example how morality could be genetic is from observation of simple group animals who can't learn much or at all, like ants. From the moment of being born to end of their lives, they help all the group to collect building material and food, defend own tribe, feed infants and carry them to safety, work for common good, sacrifice own life fighting enemy. All very ethical behavior even by human standards.

    Of course, human social life is much more complicated, and especially modern societies have lots of rules, laws and regulations to direct our complicated lives, but basic moral and ethical instincts are very genetic.

    I would like to agree with the concept of genetic morality, ... but our genetics has not changed since:
    https://phys.org/news/2009-12-eviden...neolithic.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergin View Post
    I would like to agree with the concept of genetic morality, ... but our genetics has not changed since:
    https://phys.org/news/2009-12-eviden...neolithic.html
    It happened sometims in the past due to starvation, or religious rituals. Did you see movie Alive?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive_(1993_film)
    A very powerful and insightful.


    Generally speaking people have aversion to eating other humans, and it must be a genetic restriction too, because it is very rare in all the mammals. Otherwise what would stop a lion to eat other lion, or wolf to eat other wolf?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It happened sometims in the past due to starvation, or religious rituals. Did you see movie Alive?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive_(1993_film)
    A very powerful and insightful.


    Generally speaking people have aversion to eating other humans, and it must be a genetic restriction too, because it is very rare in all the mammals. Otherwise what would stop a lion to eat other lion, or wolf to eat other wolf?
    No, I haven't. Will try to watch it.

    I think quite few mammals (lions for sure), kill the cubs of other males so that they can transmit their own genes - genetic amorality? we don't do that (who knows if we did in the dawn of time?). So, i think that the smart society of the future might well be more atheistic, but will still have to affront an increasing number of psychopaths.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    From my perspective, religious belief and belief in God are two different things. Just as left-brain dominant intelligence (exemplified perhaps by scientists) and right-brain dominant intelligence (demonstrated perhaps through mystics and visionaries) are two different things. A machine can be engineered to be "smarter" than any scientist. This kind of intelligence can and will be automated in the near future. Which seems to suggest to me that it is not really intelligence at all--at least not TRUE intelligence. To tap into our true potential, we need to bring left brain and right brain together. That's where our true intelligence lies. And when that day comes, we will have no need for religion; we will all be capable of experiencing God in Her trueness, without such pseudo-intermediaries. IMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergin View Post
    No, I haven't. Will try to watch it.

    I think quite few mammals (lions for sure), kill the cubs of other males so that they can transmit their own genes - genetic amorality?
    Yes, they kill other male's cabs, or other male during a fight, and so do people. But after killing both don't consume own species flesh.

    So, i think that the smart society of the future might well be more atheistic, but will still have to affront an increasing number of psychopaths.
    Simple answer, we don't know that. We know that there are more atheists among scientists than in general population. Do we have statistics about psychopaths and their education or religious affiliation for example? If most of them are highly educated, you might have a point.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    People should just be left to believe what they wish. A system which abolished individual thought(whether that thought is batshit or not) is itself a militant ideology. Anything that force you to sacrifice your rights and freedoms is a plague. With or without religion. Men will find something to fight about. I mean, you do have Joseph Stalin. So atheists are quite capable of the same evil as religious people. So what it comes down to is a simple answer. Humans are dicks. lol

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    There's no getting around the fact that there are advantages to being religious, as numerous studies have shown...religious people are happier, have more stable and fulfilling marriages, they're healthier, they live longer, they have greater mental stability, and on and on.
    Is it really about being religious or just about being spiritual and believing in God or a similar higher power? A lot of people in this thread are confusing religiosity with spirituality. Many atheists are in fact more "religious" in their fervour than a lot of non-religious but spiritual people. Atheism has become a kind of religion in itself for a lot of people. Especially if they try to proselytize it.

    Some atheists would probably try to genocide all religious and spiritual people, if they could. I can definitely imagine equivalents of religious wars, jihads or crusades - waged by fanatical atheists against non-atheists.

    This data shows that the number of people who believe in God is actually increasing among new generations of scientists. Can't you see that only 32% of scientists in the 18-34 years old age group are atheists?

    Do you think that scientists who are now 65+ years old used to be more spiritual or religious when they were younger? Where is the proof? I think that it is not the matter of age, but the matter of millennials being more spiritual than the baby-boomers and generation X.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Do we have statistics about psychopaths and their education or religious affiliation for example? If most of them are highly educated, you might have a point.
    Psychopaths have above-average IQ but I haven't seen data on their level of education.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I said it upthread three four years ago but I think it's both true and expressed well, so I'll repeat it: :)

    "I'd also argue that religion has two components: spirituality and ethics. Most religions address both, but the proportion is sometimes different. In terms of the ethics component, the strength of the ethical proscriptions gains from the "divine" affiliation and the promise of punishment after death in one form or another. I think that some people underestimate the importance of this connection. One well known example is Nazi Germany. That was an atheistic regime which found the religion of Jesus not as good a fit for the culture they hoped to build as some resurrected and reconstructed pseudo-paganism. Not, of course, that atrocities haven't been committed in the name of Christianity...it's just that to do so, you have to fly in the face of a good deal of actual Christian doctrine.

    It's my own personal opinion that young people in the post-modern, Judeo-Christian countries, who have more often been raised in non-religious households, and more broadly speaking, non traditional households, are far less ethical in all their relationships, whether it be with a significant other, or friends, or family members, or whether it concerns business or general societal contacts."

    I would add that given the full throated assault on religion on college campuses, and by people who know nothing of the religions they criticize, btw, I'm surprised anyone coming out of college believes in God at all, much less a religion


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Some atheists would probably try to genocide all religious and spiritual people, if they could. I can definitely imagine equivalents of religious wars, jihads or crusades - waged by fanatical atheists against non-atheists.
    They are all there to get you, boowahahahahahah. Lol, you are making enemies in your scary eyes of all the different looking and thinking people than you. Paranoid as Trump!

    This data shows that the number of people who believe in God is actually increasing among new generations of scientists. Can't you see that only 32% of scientists in the 18-34 years old age group are atheists?

    Do you think that scientists who are now 65+ years old used to be more spiritual or religious when they were younger? Where is the proof? I think that it is not the matter of age, but the matter of millennials being more spiritual than the baby-boomers and generation X.
    Your grasp on understanding life..., still needs to develope. Young people are coming from ordinary families, which are mostly religious, and it takes years if not decades for young scientists to finally drop religious affiliations and beliefs. It takes time to analyze the world and conclude that god doesn't exist. In most of cases, becoming an atheist is a long process. That's why there are more atheists in older and more experienced population of scientists.

    Psychopaths have above-average IQ but I haven't seen data on their level of education.
    I don't think so. In simplest definition, psychopath is a person who enjoys pleasure of causing harm to others. Not only lacks compassion but actively causes pain to others and enjoys it. You don't need high IQ to do that. However most infamous cases are of the psychopaths of high IQ, that's why it might seem like it is the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It's my own personal opinion that young people in the post-modern, Judeo-Christian countries, who have more often been raised in non-religious households, and more broadly speaking, non traditional households, are far less ethical in all their relationships, whether it be with a significant other, or friends, or family members, or whether it concerns business or general societal contacts."
    Interesting, because I didn't notice much difference.

    I would add that given the full throated assault on religion on college campuses, and by people who know nothing of the religions they criticize, btw, I'm surprised anyone coming out of college believes in God at all, much less a religion
    Why would you? Heck, 80 years of institutionalized and violent atheism didn't do much to curtail Russian religiousness. 75% people believe in god today. This big experiment should teach us something about human nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Young people are coming from ordinary families, which are mostly religious
    Is this really true though? In Canada?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    It's certainly true in the U.S. My children attended a high achieving public school in an upper middle class suburban neighborhood. Off hand, I can't remember a single child who didn't attend religious services of some sort, even if it was just the Unitarian Church, which barely qualifies as a religion, imo. That doesn't count all the children who go to private Catholic or Jewish or Lutheran or whatever schools. In the south Evangelical schools are big. Virtually all of them had first communions, confirmations, bat and bar mitzvahs etc.

    Even people whom I know are not actual believers themselves sent their children for religious instruction in preparation for these rites even if it was only an hour a week. That's not to mention all the Cafeteria Catholics, or Catholics who pick and choose their beliefs.

    I'm sure it's different in college towns and parts of Manhattan, maybe some New Agey California places.

    Even weekly church attendance is high, although declining. It was really high decades ago when we first came to this country. My mother was stunned by the pews full of father, mother, and not one child or maybe two, but three, four, or more, especially if they were Irish. In Italy, men stopped going to Mass regularly once they were confirmed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    Is this really true though? In Canada?
    I should have said spiritual, as most people believe in supernatural. On top of it, this statistics was done in states, which is more religious than Canada.

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    I will strictly answer to the title of the thread.
    -Do- you- think- that- smart- society -of-the- future- (by Eugenics) -will- be-- more- Atheist?


    No, Because... we will be Gods. How the damn hell we will be Atheists
    With the same humanitarian way we are humans? -Maybe.
    but with more fun...

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    Our Wars will be like the Class of the Titans... we will end at the dirt, and the cockroaches will sing lyrics for a lost paradise... Isn't that an epic dimension post modern paramythology?


    so
    IF, Theos/Θεός= eng.View as sight, scenery, outlook, visibility, ken, `knowledgε.
    and view is
    I)- the ability to see something or to be seen from a particular place.
    2)-a particular way of considering or regarding something; an attitude or opinion.
    3)-look at or inspect(something).
    4)-regard in a particular light or with a particular attitude.


    Is it good to live with nothing of the above?
    How we gonna live;
    - as sponges deep into the sea of "sterile" informations (dramatic mood -ha!)


    What which possibly would we mean our word "Atheists" ? That some people do not do all the above.?
    What we mean Eugenics? - My dad has a big fat wallet and will make me healthy, beautifull, and longlive if not immortal...? yes the profoundly logic -Smart dad provides the best for ... Whom?
    or
    We are gonna say that : We just trying to make the Humanity or our World better... for that ones with the wallets;
    Because Eugenics as you well imagine are not afordable for all of us/you/them.
    or we mean;
    That we are gonna create the new generations into the ambules of laboratories with money of our states/goverments and sperm from one individual; -Because if there are two, we are speaking about different qualities maybe also for another price; so someone of them is probably better beetween them? Are they both compatible for sustain and stable future? -I will ask.


    Enough with fun
    Here in my place we say that: When a man plans, God laughs.

    The finest science is the science of Logic that will transform humans, and as humans we have the abillity to make new gods- if we dont like the old ones. -We have to be reasonable and creative.
    (Creative I mean analytical, synthetical, orthodox and catholical and i dont mean the religions I mean the guallities of thinking process)

    Εν αρχή ήν ο λόγος.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ΠΑΝΑΞ View Post


    What which possibly would we mean our word "Atheists" ? That some people do not do all the above.?
    What we mean Eugenics? - My dad has a big fat wallet and will make me healthy, beautifull, and longlive if not immortal...? yes the profoundly logic -Smart dad provides the best for ... Whom?
    or
    We are gonna say that : We just trying to make the Humanity or our World better... for that ones with the wallets;
    One of main things about technology is that it makes things inexpensive. Years back cars, phones, vacation or air flights where only for rich. Now, thanks to huge advances in technology, everybody has a car, cellphone and can fly to vacation destination around the globe. Heck, and it is just a 100 years after invasion of these things. Now imagine how cheap these things will be in another 100 or 1000 years, together with genetic engineering.

    Can you answer this question? When genetic engineering will be afforded by all people and perfected to be safe. Wouldn't you want your children to be beautiful, smart, healthy and living long lives? All it takes is to go to the clinic give your DNA and your spouse DNA and with some alteration make a perfect human being. Or you will still try the old fashion procreation technic, pray to god, and hope for the best?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    One of main things about technology is that it makes things inexpensive. Years back cars, phones, vacation or air flights where only for rich. Now, thanks to huge advances in technology, everybody has a car, cellphone and can fly to vacation destination around the globe. Heck, and it is just a 100 years after invasion of these things. Now imagine how cheap these things will be in another 100 or 1000 years, together with genetic engineering.

    Can you answer this question? When genetic engineering will be afforded by all people and perfected to be safe. Wouldn't you want your children to be beautiful, smart, healthy and living long lives? All it takes is to go to the clinic give your DNA and your spouse DNA and with some alteration make a perfect human being. Or you will still try the old fashion procreation technic, pray to god, and hope for the best?
    And I will answer for you,
    I can rudiculise and discredit myself in public, to take my pants off in the middle of a sunday church for the love of our Lord...


    You know our difference -if that is the right word to say, i wish not, but cant find better at the moment-, is that when
    you say: "Tomorrow, I will fly my kite to the sky with the winds."
    I say: "Tommorow, if the winds wish, we will fly ours kite."


    you ask me and you begin saying:
    "-When genetic engineering will be afforded by all people and perfected to be safe..."
    and I say:
    When jesus feed the people with two breads and five fishes.... and give them also the immortal life...


    Isn;t that the best price to buy... (~25 to 35Eu) and not to spend money for hundred years possibly more of sick life... with sciences and magic pills for all the diseases...
    (craps)
    When i will be president a week for holidays to Mars for all the families.... and that;s my word for that.

    Beautifull people are many but can we see them?


    That with the DNA is interesting enough, but we dont have to bother.
    Keanu Reeves is the absolut stallion we have little Buddha, little Matrix, divinal composition...


    Lets land our planes now.

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    Nice points @Le brok who could disagree; (If not the Logic itself)


    These days I am very busy, but my love for you, could not stop me... I will find time to "make love with you" and I mean spiritual -Platonic love, the finest one. With no precautions the specifigue one. (no taboos, free speech, the greek way)


    Technology is a nice thing, how else casn it be; There is a "logy" inside, from -Λόγος and if you agree we can use a supplementary term to desribe it as: "Handcrafted-tangible;- logical sequences"? you are open minded person Le brok and that means it is not difficult for you to follow my lines... (no matter how craps they are- Are they?) Do it and you will no regreat, Do you agree? (only for the discussion, for the "sake of argument" as usually our host @Maciamo succesfully refers...)


    -so, If you agree...


    Knife is a prime example of it (of technology)... but instictively we know that mostly what matter is -which one is holding it and with what purpose-. (there is no reason to elaborate it, you allraedy realise what i mean...) That knife, the "Tooth" of the jungle boy, could reveal who is the brave but also who is the coward, let me to say simple,- who is the good one and who is the bad. etc etc. That is a simplistic approach like those of highschool kids, which suddenly realise one night that something went wrong with their interpretations about what could probably life is, but these are not for us , because we are still pre school infants in terms of spirituality ( Dont worry the others are frog embryos there is alot of time before they born, and very far before they become princes.)
    So,
    Lets put it simple for all of us.
    From a "spiritual" perspective, as for a technical also
    Technology = ability, possibility, opportunity, capability, potentiality
    and all the above what -element- mostly reguire to express their properties? -Thats easy isnt it;
    Lets to name it Power; just to move it little further, to put in action as we could say (-power switch;... electricity;... money,... beauty for F. Dostoyevsky,... guns for A. Hitler;)


    Answer me, you now:
    Who, is holding the Power and if you do, be sure there is no answer thatcannot be answered! Like Archimedes once said something like "Give a stable place and i will move the World".
    ( My people by the way somerimes call me "o Archidees.")


    Serious now if i am not off topic and not tired you, I can elaborate -for you- a very critical issue which can be setted as
    The price of the value, (are we ready?)
    and using your addresed samples according to your previous post (telephones, planes, super wow tecnologies and super wow people) -only if you wish.
    Please read me carefully because I read you -years now- carefully.
    Know me now, because I know you better... long ago.

    IF (that great IF) you wish quote me I will answer every post in time...
    You and [email protected] you are the best guys here for different reasons- At least for me. (who cares for the others, -rhetorically!)


    Wait for a week, read me well, think it well, I am here for you.
    about Atheism i recently expose my opinion here:
    (I will give you the keys from my house, I will I wait you at the airport come with planes and kites, come with teletransportation, come with whatever you wish. I will give my one ball to science to play table tennis if it is the right thing to do.)
    Correct me. (thats spiritual interaction isn't it?)
    To help, is Ευγενικό, a chivalry action.

  19. #69
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    Interesting thought. I am not a philanthropist or philosopher

    I believe it only get stronger, and atheist group will be a minor community.

    It is true that some discoveries in the scientific world has rewrote fundamental belief in religions.

    When scientific discoveries goes further deep, people will have strong feeling to resist the change.

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