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Thread: Do you think that smart society of the future (by Eugenics) will be more atheist?

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    Do you think that smart society of the future (by Eugenics) will be more atheist?



    Assuming that scientists are the smartest of us all, their spirituality or rather lack of it, can point us to the character of future society. I'm almost certain that in future people will make kids in hospitals or labs by gene manipulation, rather than risking sick or mediocre child made natural way. In future everybody will be smart, healthy and beautiful.
    So, when all society is smart or super smart like today's best scientists, will society become more atheistic?
    Will it bring the end of all religions?

    There is more atheists among scientist than other occupations or general public.

    Only 33% of scientists believe in "God" while another 18% believe in a "universal spirit" or "higher power". (See source 1. ) The study concluded that scientists are less likely to believe in a "God" or "Higher Power" as the general public.
    By contrast, 95% of Americans believe in "God" or a "Higher Power" with approx. 83% having a religious affiliation according to a 2006 survey conducted by the Pew Research Center.
    It means that there is 10 times more atheists amongst scientists than in general public. This is huge difference.
    Interestingly, the older one gets the less spiritual one becomes. At least as a scientist.



    http://www.pewforum.org/Science-and-...nd-Belief.aspx
    Last edited by LeBrok; 26-08-13 at 06:32.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Interesting....... but I may have to come back to this.
    However, my immediate thought on whether a smart society will bring an end to all religions, I don`t necessarily think it would LeBrok.
    For instance, using the table below as the basis for the debate, we see that regardless of their science background, their knowledge across the various sciences, 33% of these smart people still proclaim a belief in God. Another percentage state they believe in a universal spirit or higher power, and this despite their work.
    If you add those who believe and name it as God to those who believe in something higher, you still have more believing in something than those not.
    This, to me at least, would suggest with more smart people added to the equation,it would widen the gap between those who believe and those who don`t, but still leave a group of believers.
    You could ask why is this smart group still choosing to believe in God or a higher power? Could it stem from how they were raised, family or cultural beliefs? But would that alone be enough to make them hold those views now, considering their work? I don`t think it might be, I`m not sure.
    So what could it be? Do we come back, again, to the thought that it might actually be in some peoples nature to believe in the spiritual? I know there was a good deal made of the VMAT2 gene, and it was poorly labelled the God Gene. I didn`t keep up with that. Is it still being discussed or has it been set aside?
    If there was something genetic to this desire or need to believe, if it could be identified and isolated then maybe at the early stage it could be, for the want of a better word, switched off.
    To be honest, I don`t think if this happens it will happen on an immense scale. There will, I feel, always be those for one reason or another,who will not wish to participate.
    So with this group of non-participants added to the really smart group still wanting to hold their beliefs, I think it will be enough to keep religion alive.

    Although, it is interesting to note that as they grew older, the tendency was to be less spiritual.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    Interesting....... but I may have to come back to this.
    However, my immediate thought on whether a smart society will bring an end to all religions, I don`t necessarily think it would LeBrok.
    For instance, using the table below as the basis for the debate, we see that regardless of their science background, their knowledge across the various sciences, 33% of these smart people still proclaim a belief in God. Another percentage state they believe in a universal spirit or higher power, and this despite their work.
    If you add those who believe and name it as God to those who believe in something higher, you still have more believing in something than those not.
    This, to me at least, would suggest with more smart people added to the equation,it would widen the gap between those who believe and those who don`t, but still leave a group of believers.
    You could ask why is this smart group still choosing to believe in God or a higher power? Could it stem from how they were raised, family or cultural beliefs? But would that alone be enough to make them hold those views now, considering their work? I don`t think it might be, I`m not sure.
    That's right, it is hard to be sure how it will pan out in the future. There are always the very traditional people, the very spiritual or the ones that can't give up hope of afterlife.
    Here is an interesting summary of many research about negative correlation between IQ and believing in god.
    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/IQ%20and...,%20Nyborg.doc
    If this is a true pattern then we might expect further "Atheisation" of population together with rising IQ. How many people will remain believing in god when thanks to Eugenics average IQ will climb to 200 in distant future? Today's average IQ for scientists is about 130.



    So what could it be? Do we come back, again, to the thought that it might actually be in some peoples nature to believe in the spiritual? I know there was a good deal made of the VMAT2 gene, and it was poorly labelled the God Gene. I didn`t keep up with that. Is it still being discussed or has it been set aside?
    If there was something genetic to this desire or need to believe, if it could be identified and isolated then maybe at the early stage it could be, for the want of a better word, switched off.
    We might run into unforeseen circumstances of switching spirituality off. Perhaps it will be easier for people to give up and commit suicides?
    To be honest, I don`t think if this happens it will happen on an immense scale. There will, I feel, always be those for one reason or another,who will not wish to participate.
    So with this group of non-participants added to the really smart group still wanting to hold their beliefs, I think it will be enough to keep religion alive.
    Possibly

    Although, it is interesting to note that as they grew older, the tendency was to be less spiritual.
    This might be related to people feeling less family pressure (parents are dead), other words caring less what others think about them. In this case admitting their lack of faith. It also take a big while for religious people to give up faith, switching sides equals "cheating on God" or feeling like sinner.

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    Thank-you for that link LeBrok, I need to read it again, but on first read... I found it a very interesting study.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    As people become smarter and get better science education the religiosity declines. This is a factual observation in many societies. Hope is correct when he says that a lot of smart people still believe in god, even if they have lost faith in religion itself. A lot of people need to believe in a superior power to feel that their life has a sense. It's a natural feeling since it is true that life in itself has no particular sense. We are matter and that's it. There is no purpose in life except to enjoy it and propagate it. People like to believe in a god because it reassures them about their existence and about death. Many people, no matter how clever, are too weak psychologically to live without that reassurance. I am fine with that as long as it's a purely deist and non-religious belief in god. God doesn't need religion. Religions are just a kleptocraic organizations that use people's angst about death and the afterlife to control and brainwash them.

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    This reminds of something that I was thinking about a few days ago. The only "intelligent/educated" people who I know that are religious are either:
    A) people who haven't researched religion (for example they never read their religion's holy book and other texts)
    or
    B) people who were really really really brainwashed by their parents and community (the thought of leaving their religion seems impossible for them).
    Last edited by Templar; 01-08-13 at 16:18. Reason: replaced "and" with "or"

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    So, when all society is smart or super smart like today's best scientists, will society become more atheistic?
    Still a long way to go;



    mmmmmmmmmmmm Yummy salt water

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    In every one of us, there is a intellegent being. You just need to tap it and believe in yourself nomatter your religion, race, sexuality or disability. We can all work together, divided we fall.

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    Depends on how you raise the child, I feel like it doesn't matter if you are brainwashed or not if you are seen as submissive you could still be seen as a tool to brainwash and if the child is brainwashed the intelligence can determinates but if you let the child explore and use their imagination then intelligence grows

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    Still a long way to go;



    mmmmmmmmmmmm Yummy salt water
    Thank god we have to pee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    In every one of us, there is a intellegent being.
    I would love to believe it, but looking at the mess we create daily on this planet, it seems contrary to your statement. ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Thank god we have to pee.
    Hard to understand why many people believe such nonsense.

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    Probably genetically engineered mind control would be the norm for such a "civilization", no one thinks more than they have to.

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    I'm pretty sure if religion was abolish, STDs would be on the rise, besides what's so bad on studying mythology and culture?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Religion does have a positive side since (supposedly) teaches us morality.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cambrius (The Red) View Post
    Religion does have a positive side since (supposedly) teaches us morality.
    A good quote by the physicist Steven Weinberg:

    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar View Post
    A good quote by the physicist Steven Weinberg:

    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
    That's a very good quote, although it applies not only to religion.
    Last edited by ElHorsto; 10-09-13 at 16:13. Reason: grammar

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    I'm pretty sure if religion was abolish, STDs would be on the rise, besides what's so bad on studying mythology and culture?
    We'd have cure for all STD's by that time. Groovy baby :)

    Anyway, even in totally atheistic society in the year 2546. we'll still have wars:
    st6.jpg

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    This is a very serious and sensitive topic. Each time the eugenics are mentioned a shiver goes down my spine, it reminds me of the Nazi "ubermenschen" that unfortunately had its origin in California USA, and frankly I get quite shocked how it is presented as something good.

    The very thought of eugenics is against the core basis of the evolution theory which is the basis for the atheists, or scientific thinking, regarding all the living beings on Earth. On the other hand eugenics goes in hand with the creationists’ theory. If we, the humans of the Earth, will be able to intervene in the course of nature (evolution) and in the long run even create new creatures or more advanced species, then we confirm the creationist theory, don't we? And the creationists will jump and say "Aha, we said it all along, humans could not develop form the monkeys, something else (someone) intervened!" For me Eugenicists are the crazy people/scientists who have the God complex.

    According to Dawkins, religion is a meme, and if you read the ECLET theory by Dr. Graves,will understand that this meme is a necessity of the human evolution that needs to take its course and have its' influence in the human evolution, same as atheism. For me both religious and atheists can be dogmatic and closed in their convictions, as the matter of fact they can function from the same level of the complexity of the human mind capacity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    We'd have cure for all STD's by that time. Groovy baby :)

    Anyway, even in totally atheistic society in the year 2546. we'll still have wars:
    Mind you that only war in Europe (since WWII) we had was in Yugoslavia between 3 religions.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    This might be related to people feeling less family pressure (parents are dead), other words caring less what others think about them. In this case admitting their lack of faith. It also take a big while for religious people to give up faith, switching sides equals "cheating on God" or feeling like sinner.
    I think that belief in God probably declines with age among all groups. How much senseless suffering can people watch or endure before they start to doubt the purposes of a so called loving God? The fact that the numbers stay as high as they do suggests to me not only the importance of early training and of cultural norms, but that there is something in people that makes them want to believe, either because they don't want to think that human life is just the result of random chance, or because they want to believe there will someday be some form of justice, and perhaps a reunion with loved ones, and/or they're just hard-wired that way.

    There's no getting around the fact that there are advantages to being religious, as numerous studies have shown...religious people are happier, have more stable and fulfilling marriages, they're healthier, they live longer, they have greater mental stability, and on and on. Even the most recognized and successful, by some accounts, addiction treatment program, AA, recommends reliance on a "higher power".

    I'd also argue that religion has two components: spirituality and ethics. Most religions address both, but the proportion is sometimes different. In terms of the ethics component, the strength of the ethical proscriptions gains from the "divine" affiliation and the promise of punishment after death in one form or another. I think that some people underestimate the importance of this connection. One well known example is Nazi Germany. That was an atheistic regime which found the religion of Jesus not as good a fit for the culture they hoped to build as some resurrected and reconstructed pseudo-paganism. Not, of course, that atrocities haven't been committed in the name of Christianity...it's just that to do so, you have to fly in the face of a good deal of actual Christian doctrine.

    It's my own personal opinion that young people in the post-modern, Judeo-Christian countries, who have more often been raised in non-religious households, and more broadly speaking, non traditional households, are far less ethical in all their relationships, whether it be with a significant other, or friends, or family members, or whether it concerns business or general societal contacts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Mind you that only war in Europe (since WWII) we had was in Yugoslavia between 3 religions.
    We've had the same conflict during WW2, so it was virtually just it's sequel.

    Anyway, that episode of SouthPark I linked is about wars in future non-religious societies. In summary - people will always find something to fight about.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    have more stable and fulfilling marriages
    I've actually heard that the divorce rate in the US is higher among the religious than the irreligious.

    http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistf...stsDivorce.htm

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    We've had the same conflict during WW2, so it was virtually just it's sequel.
    That's because communist regime kept all in check for years not letting things to play out in free way, natural way.

    Anyway, that episode of SouthPark I linked is about wars in future non-religious societies. In summary - people will always find something to fight about.
    Not necessarily, in the west we have so much (even during this recession, and generally speaking) that not many wants to go and fight for piece of land or some ideas. Why would you risk and lose good life, kids, family, etc for who knows what? We only fight if someone wants to take it away. :) This is unprecedented 70 year peace trend in the West.
    Only young guys want naturally (genetically) fight and play soldiers, but they are not in control of politics. Therefore not much danger from it.
    Most world's unrest these days is caused by poverty, lack of freedoms and religious fanaticism (form of fascism). All of these behind revolutions in Middle East. If we help them to become successful like the West, things will look very promising for global peace.
    Being very sceptical and cynical doesn't make you right or objective (still emotions in play). I guess the Balkan war didn't make it easier for you to believe that total peace might be possible one day.
    Last edited by LeBrok; 13-09-13 at 06:25.

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    Okay, if that is the case maybe we could integrate religious ideals in history like for example the rise and fall of religions.

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