European Citizens' Initiative

[Yetos]

Can't you say thank you for a good job? I guess it has to be greek culture.

that is why some people are born losers,

A job is not given neither by protectors, neither by state, neither by banks,

so I never say thank you, when i get a job,

only man without degnity say thank you for a job.

a job is like a trade, do you say thank at supermarket?

you buy consuming products you pay,
you sweat and get tired, you get payed,

Do you say thank you at super market?

Lebrok understand it, Communism has fall, its time to fall Capitalism.
Only Islam can save Capitalism, that is why Europe and USA are importing enough of it.

HUMAN RIGHTS ARE ABOVE ECONOMICAL SYSTEM.

I PAY WITH TAXES MY PROTECTOR TO PROTECT MY RIGHTS.
NOT TO DEPRESS THEM.

DID YOU EVER SAY THANK YOU FOR A GOOD JOB?
IT MEANS YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT.

 

[Templar]

Only Islam can save Capitalism, that is why Europe and USA are importing enough of it.

What do you mean?

 

[Yetos]

What do you mean?

did you ever heard a revolt in Islam for pure economical reasons? (like revolution Francais for example)
except the late Arab spring, which the results seems to act strange in some islamic countries like Egypt.

 

[Templar]

did you ever heard a revolt in Islam for pure economical reasons? (like revolution Francais for example)
except the late Arab spring, which the results seems to act strange in some islamic countries like Egypt.

I think I know what you mean. Like religion is a tool of the 1% elite and they use it to oppress and control the poor. And since Islam is super demanding and centralized, it is more potent than other religions. As Napoleon said: "religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich"

 

[LeBrok]

A job is not given neither by protectors, neither by state, neither by banks,

I don't want to say that, but it has to be a Greek economy. It would explain big unemployment. Nobody gives job to anyone in Greece.

so I never say thank you, when i get a job,

only man without degnity say thank you for a job.

You should sign your avatar with this. This is priceless!

a job is like a trade, do you say thank at supermarket?

you buy consuming products you pay,
you sweat and get tired, you get payed,

Do you say thank you at super market?

Yes, yes and yes

I PAY WITH TAXES MY PROTECTOR TO PROTECT MY RIGHTS.
NOT TO DEPRESS THEM.

And how is it working in Greece?

DID YOU EVER SAY THANK YOU FOR A GOOD JOB?
IT MEANS YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT.

Yes, and I thank customers, employees, neighbours, my wife, and I even thank a man who invented a shower, at least once a week. Wish he got the nobel prize for that invention.
But it all must feels sick for you Yetos.

 

[LeBrok]

What do you think is the reason/cause of this? I am guessing it is due to greater inter-connectivity between countries. If your country heavily invests in another country you are less likely to want to bomb the hell out of it. But I guess greater democratization and income increases also played a role.

This all play role in global peace. The more people have the less likely they want to go and die in the war. If you have a job, a house, wife, kids, car, vacation, good life in general. Why would you go and risk your life? Well, it doesn't work with all people, but enough if it works with vast majority. Peace through good economy.
Also prosperous and well fed society never starts revolution.
Inter connectivity like turism, free news from other countries, or trade is important too. If you know people from other countries, that they want exactly the same peaceful life as you do, plus you have few friends there, it is less likely that you would vote for a president who wants war with them.

 

[Yetos]

I don't want to say that, but it has to be a Greek economy. It would explain big unemployment. Nobody gives job to anyone in Greece.

You should sign your avatar with this. This is priceless!


Yes, yes and yes


And how is it working in Greece?


Yes, and I thank customers, employees, neighbours, my wife, and I even thank a man who invented a shower, at least once a week. Wish he got the nobel prize for that invention.
But it all must feels sick for you Yetos.

my friend,
ASK DNI NSA and their connections with VERIZON and X-Keyscore program.

and then go to phone company and Say thank you for recording my talks,
and then go to NSA and say again Thank you for observing my internet activity.

and then go to some Social sites and say thank you for my DATA send to Therion. etc etc.

DO YOU EXPECT ME TO SAY THANK YOU NSA and VERIZON FOR 'PARENTAL" OBSERVATION OF MY PERSONAL LIFE?????

 

[Yetos]

I think I know what you mean. Like religion is a tool of the 1% elite and they use it to oppress and control the poor. And since Islam is super demanding and centralized, it is more potent than other religions. As Napoleon said: "religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich"

Yes, you target correct.

 

[Yetos]

This all play role in global peace. The more people have the less likely they want to go and die in the war. If you have a job, a house, wife, kids, car, vacation, good life in general. Why would you go and risk your life? Well, it doesn't work with all people, but enough if it works with vast majority. Peace through good economy.
Also prosperous and well fed society never starts revolution.
Inter connectivity like turism, free news from other countries, or trade is important too. If you know people from other countries, that they want exactly the same peaceful life as you do, plus you have few friends there, it is less likely that you would vote for a president who wants war with them.

in such case your bellow the president make a 9/11 and create a foundamental movement, which is willing and demanding.

 

[LeBrok]

Yes, you target correct.

What is stopping you?

 

[Nobody1]

DO YOU EXPECT ME TO SAY THANK YOU NSA and VERIZON FOR 'PARENTAL" OBSERVATION OF MY PERSONAL LIFE?????

 

[Yetos]

Hey Lebrok

one day you might wake up like this

READ THE BELLOW, AND SEE WHAT YOU SUPPORT

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/01/government-tracking-google-searches


This is gonna have fun,

I am gonna send e-mails everywhere so to 'invite' antiterrorists to my home,

its gonna have fun,


DO YOU A JOKE ABOUT A GREEK IMMIGRANT IN USA LEBROK AT DICTATORSHIP TIMES?


at 1960's NATO/OTAN was afraid a lot the communist party, so in Greece they make a Junda and an agents group (code name RED FLEECE), as in other European countries also.

a young boy migrate to USA and left his old man alone and old back to Greece,

at October time the boy goes to a publicphone calls his old man and say to him,
DAD plz watch the guns, I hide in the field above the church near the river,

After 1 week the boy takes again his father, who complains to boy,
Why you said about guns? Tanks came anδ plowed the field? they dig every where.

and the boy answer to his father,
SOW THE WHEAT DAD, SOW WHEAT, :grin:


That is what I am gonna do now,
I am gonna send emails everywhere, about BOMBS, and PRESIDENT, etc etc,
so antiterrists to come,
and I will useUSA tax payers to buy me a new door, windows, carpets etc,

you see, you might get lucky and change doors, windows, carpets, wall colours, etc, only by sending suspicious emails,

YEAH I LIKE THAT SYSTEM :grin:

BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB


At how many red light turns on?

 

[ElHorsto]

It is very useful, but not required.

Of course real data are required. It is reasonably obvious that they are required for doing any kind of selection, i.e. victim selection. How this can be even questioned is beyond me.

What real data was required for Khmer Rouge to kill a million people?

If they really killed randomly without any pre-selection (I don't know) then you are right, they needed no data.

Josef Stalin has sent best generals and polit bureau members to gulags just because they held offices for too long, long enough to potentially plan something against him. Again no real data required just despotic leaders with neurotic personality.

These are very good examples for such data (held office for too long, having red hair (suspected zionist), having relatives in US or Israel, ...) which exactly prove my point. These data provided suspicions and Stalin deliberately killed also the false positives for safety reasons. The internet and phone data provide mostly that: false positives.

Wouldn't Stalin have spied and backed-up the Internet if he could?

Should we mention N Korea where internet doesn't exist, or any computer data collection, and yet as much as 10% citizens are locked in labour camps.

These are real life examples showing that data collection is not required for any tyrant to persecute or kill.

These are merely examples showing that this happened already before the internet. That's really not a big insight. Stasi, Gestapo and Inquisition had no internet obviously. They tried to find the data by other means. Would they have not spied phone and internet if they could?

Have a good government and data is used for our protection. Have a bad one and nobody is safe, or data even needed.

First, governments can change (EU, Hungary, soon Greece, maybe other crisis shattered countries too).
Second, war or invasion can happen. The laws forbid excessive violation of privacy because of such potential misuse.

 

[ElHorsto]

http://filipspagnoli.wordpress.com/...-war-conflict/statistics-on-violent-conflict/

And keep in mind that number of people is growing every year, therefore probability of more people dying in wars is bigger than before. And in spite of it, number of deaths from conflicts and number of conflicts dropping down.

Don't what to argue much about this topic, but want to note that there seem to exist some controversies regarding these statistics:

Global War Deaths Have Been Substantially Underestimated, Study Shows
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080619194142.htm

"They estimate that 5.4 million deaths occurred as a result of war in the 13 countries studied between 1955 and 2002, from 7000 in the Democratic Republic of Congo to 3.8 million in Vietnam.
The researchers point out that these estimates are on average three times higher than those obtained from previous reports. For example, they estimate that 378 000 people died a violent death as result of war each year between 1985 and 1994, compared to previous estimates of 137 000 people during this time."

A weakness of both statistics is that they end at 2002.

 

[LeBrok]

Don't what to argue much about this topic, but want to note that there seem to exist some controversies regarding these statistics:

Global War Deaths Have Been Substantially Underestimated, Study Shows
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080619194142.htm

"They estimate that 5.4 million deaths occurred as a result of war in the 13 countries studied between 1955 and 2002, from 7000 in the Democratic Republic of Congo to 3.8 million in Vietnam.
The researchers point out that these estimates are on average three times higher than those obtained from previous reports. For example, they estimate that 378 000 people died a violent death as result of war each year between 1985 and 1994, compared to previous estimates of 137 000 people during this time."

A weakness of both statistics is that they end at 2002.

So what, if casualties in all wars are higher than estimated then we still see positive fall of kills and positive decline in conflicts (by positive I mean fewer). Still inspite of growing world population. I was arguing the positive trend not the true number of casualties.

 

[LeBrok]

Of course real data are required. It is reasonably obvious that they are required for doing any kind of selection, i.e. victim selection. How this can be even questioned is beyond me.

Looks like you questioned yourself:

If they really killed randomly without any pre-selection (I don't know) then you are right, they needed no data.

These are very good examples for such data (held office for too long, having red hair (suspected zionist), having relatives in US or Israel, ...) which exactly prove my point. These data provided suspicions and Stalin deliberately killed also the false positives for safety reasons. The internet and phone data provide mostly that: false positives.

Wouldn't Stalin have spied and backed-up the Internet if he could?



These are merely examples showing that this happened already before the internet. That's really not a big insight. Stasi, Gestapo and Inquisition had no internet obviously. They tried to find the data by other means. Would they have not spied phone and internet if they could?

Exactly. If you let "bed" government to run the country, nothing is going to stop any kind of surveillance.

First, governments can change (EU, Hungary, soon Greece, maybe other crisis shattered countries too).
Second, war or invasion can happen. The laws forbid excessive violation of privacy because of such potential misuse.

Governments are known to break their own laws. Make sure you pick the best to run your country.

 

[LeBrok]

Bib brother is going to look how we drive soon!

By 2015 all cars must have black boxes if a transportation bill before Congress passes, as it’s likely to. The goal is to help investigators understand more about crashes.

Some insurance companies offer carrot-and-stick discounts that lower your rates if they can install a different black box that records when, how fast, and sometimes where you drive, in order to give or take away insurance discounts. These are essentially always-on, always-tracking recorders. To many motorists they smack of big brother. But they also provide a financial lifeline for a driver with a lousy record; it may be the only way he or she can get

 

[ElHorsto]

Looks like you questioned yourself:

It looks like this because you skipped to highlight the phrases 'selection' and 'without any pre-selection' which make the crucial case distinction. It was me who responded to Hope that the lack of any data would imply lack of selection thus random killing/persecution/making-up/whatever. If the Red Khmer really killed randomly without being selective (which I doubt), then this would be exactly what I meant: irrational and pointless. If a government or group wants to act rationally even in the slightest it requires a minimum of real data (at least for distinguishing friend and foe).
Actually one selection criterion used by the Red Khmer was the presence of contacts to foreigners, so basically suspicious communication data.

 

[LeBrok]

Actually one selection criterion used by the Red Khmer was the presence of contacts to foreigners, so basically suspicious communication data.

Yes, and they have killed whole village to give example to others. So yes data selection, if you must, was that they found you in this village. Who cares what your name is, innocent or not.
Data selection in N Korea was relationship to "counterrevolutionary". Mother, fathers, kids, husbands are sent to camps too. It creates great responsability for people questioning dictators. It is not only your life in stake.
I'm not questioning usefulness of data for regimes, it is very useful. I'm showing you examples that data is not always required for bad tyrants to kill people. Many random people die as example to keep others in check. Many are sent to camps on suspicion only, just to keep camps full for slave labour.

 

[ElHorsto]

So, nobody here is to congratulate FBI on saving underage girls from prostitution? And yes, they were collecting data from pimp's websites.

That means the FBI had a Reasonable_suspicion according to the fourth amendment. Congratulations, well done.