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View Poll Results: Do you prefer Y-DNA maps with or withour country borders ?

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Thread: Do you prefer Y-DNA maps with or withour country borders ?

  1. #1
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Question Do you prefer Y-DNA maps with or withour country borders ?

    I have originally made all my Y-DNA frequency maps without showing the political borders of modern countries. I only added borders for the maps of haplogroup I, R1 and EGJT. I could easily add borders though. As I prefer to have only one version of each map online, I would like to ask first if I should keep the maps as they are (borderless) or add the borders. Please vote at the poll.
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  2. #2
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-S26
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberians
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    I prefer borders, so you can see cleary for each country which levels they have. etc

  3. #3
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    Country: Germany - Baden-Wurttemberg



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Personally; i have no troubles reading the borderless maps;
    maybe (important) Rivers would be a good feature;

    But since its not only Eupedia members looking and using them; I think borders might be helpful since not everybody is well versed with European geography; but than again Rivers would be a good feature instead of national-borders
    - especially in the context of ancient cultures and territories; to understand it in a broader context not a narrow nationalistic one;

  4. #4
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    Country: UK - Northern Ireland



    I agree with Wilhelm. Whilst I like the maps without borders, I think for study purposes, it is much easier to see the distribution within set areas "at a glance" with the borders.

  5. #5
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1 (M253)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Ethnic group
    European mix
    Country: United States



    I like the borders because it makes the maps easier to read. Side note... while I lock horns with you from time to time on the whole R vs. I thing, I must say these maps are incredibly useful. In fact I think your maps will be referred to hundreds of years in the future kind of like how we examine the earliest sea-faring maps of yesteryear. Our future generations will laugh at how much we've gotten wrong, but also marvel at what we've been able to get right.

  6. #6
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    If the maps had national borders (making genetic compilation in regions MUCH more difficult) then maciamo is god, basically

  7. #7
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV1b2

    Country: Netherlands



    Borders in Europe and no borders outside the European continent especially the fake borders in the Middle East. As a Kurd I don't recognise artificial borders that divide Kurdistan! But this site is about Europe, so I voted for borders! I predict different borders in the Middle East with 10 years...

  8. #8
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Look at that, a Kurd....I wonder why I'm the one with the Y-DNA T marker from the Middle East lolll

  9. #9
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    1 members found this post helpful.
    As the vast majority has voted in favour, I have added borders to all the maps (except R1b which is at a different format for which I don't have the borders).

  10. #10
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1 ► M253 ► L338
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H52

    Ethnic group
    Caucasian - N. European (Scandinavian)
    Country: USA - Florida



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have originally made all my Y-DNA frequency maps without showing the political borders of modern countries. I only added borders for the maps of haplogroup I, R1 and EGJT. I could easily add borders though. As I prefer to have only one version of each map online, I would like to ask first if I should keep the maps as they are (borderless) or add the borders. Please vote at the poll.
    I believe you can do both easily and give people a choice. Just have 2 blank maps, make one a transparency with borders and do an overlay. I did that for Wikipedia in several instances.

  11. #11
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b4

    Ethnic group
    English/British Isles
    Country: UK - England



    It is useful with borders as it gives you an idea of whether genetic barriers equate with cultural or political barriers, for example. However it is also nice to see the genetic aspect without being influenced by national boundaries.
    'Wise men speak only of what they know' - J.R.R. Tolkien

  12. #12
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a2a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: France



    With borders...thank you Maciamo..all forget Albania because it is 1 small country .., please see time after time albanian results..in Ftdna we are fast all R1b1a2a1.. ..

  13. #13
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L70
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albania View Post
    With borders...thank you Maciamo..all forget Albania because it is 1 small country .., please see time after time albanian results..in Ftdna we are fast all R1b1a2a1.. ..
    It is because u are only 6 people. Albanians have more E-V13 then R1b-HT 35 and also do not forget J2b2. I2a is also big in Tosk especially

  14. #14
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    It is because u are only 6 people. Albanians have more E-V13 then R1b-HT 35 and also do not forget J2b2. I2a is also big in Tosk especially
    strange how albanians have high J2-M102 and very low J2-M410
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  15. #15
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L70
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
    Bulgarian
    Country: Bulgaria



    Well it is not that strange I think. J2b2 is together with E-V13 and R1b-HT 35 while J2a is with different things. J2b1 is ultra low in Albanians and everywhere, is is seen a bit in Slavs and sometimes in India. J2b2 is Balkan and also Volga Tatars and Italy is observed. J2a is not high in the Balkan anyways, we Bulgarians have 2.4% J2a-M530 and 1% J-M67 the other subclades are really low. Albanians also have both of this groups maybe about the same J-M530 and a bit more J-M67

  16. #16
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    Country: Serbia



    Albanians have mostly J2b2-M241. For example Geg Albanians in the Kosovo have 16,7%, in Upper Macedonia (former Yugoslav republic): 13,5%. J2a is much less, for example in Albanians in Macedonia (Gegs) founded 2,7%. But for me is big surprise that Arbereshe (Albanians who emigrated in Calabria and Apulia) almost do not even have J haplogroup.

  17. #17
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L70
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a2a1

    Ethnic group
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    Country: Bulgaria



    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Albanians have mostly J2b2-M241. For example Geg Albanians in the Kosovo have 16,7%, in Upper Macedonia (former Yugoslav republic): 13,5%. J2a is much less, for example in Albanians in Macedonia (Gegs) founded 2,7%.
    Yes but we do not have samples. For example first Karachanak found 1.2 % G2a in 126 Bulgarians and then in her new research with good sample of 808 she found 4.8 %. The problem with research on Balkan is that it is not enough, bellow 100 is a joke, bellow 500 is not a good picture .
    On Albanians there is one sample of 106 people but they only checked for E1b1b , one sample of 64 people(not enough), one sample of 55 people(not enough), one sample of 30 people(not enough) one sample of 114(the best so far, yet too little) and one sample of 51(not enough). When we combine them(without) the E sample it is 314 and this is kinda good, but then they did not really checked for subgroups in all of this samples and we can not be sure if some of the people are not the same.
    There is a big sample on Persians and there is also data for other people out of 55 tested Albanians 3.64 are JM67, 1. 82 are J2-M97, so if this is the same sample of 55 Albanians of Batagglia 2008, which finds 20% of J2 in Albanians, this will mean that 5.46% are J2a(but we do not know about other subtype of J2a) and the rest are J2b2

  18. #18
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L70
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Yes but we do not have samples. For example first Karachanak found 1.2 % G2a in 126 Bulgarians and then in her new research with good sample of 808 she found 4.8 %. The problem with research on Balkan is that it is not enough, bellow 100 is a joke, bellow 500 is not a good picture .
    On Albanians there is one sample of 106 people but they only checked for E1b1b , one sample of 64 people(not enough), one sample of 55 people(not enough), one sample of 30 people(not enough) one sample of 114(the best so far, yet too little) and one sample of 51(not enough). When we combine them(without) the E sample it is 314 and this is kinda good, but then they did not really checked for subgroups in all of this samples and we can not be sure if some of the people are not the same.
    There is a big sample on Persians and there is also data for other people out of 55 tested Albanians 3.64 are JM67, 1. 82 are J2-M92, so if this is the same sample of 55 Albanians of Batagglia 2008, which finds 20% of J2 in Albanians, this will mean that 5.46% are J2a(but we do not know about other subtype of J2a) and the rest are J2b2
    Out of 52 tested Albanians from Italy:
    3.85% have J-M530
    5.75% have J-M92
    7.69% have J-M67
    this is 17.26% J2a

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    Out of 52 tested Albanians from Italy:
    3.85% have J-M530
    5.75% have J-M92
    7.69% have J-M67
    this is 17.26% J2a
    And where's that study?

  20. #20
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L70
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Bulgaria


  21. #21
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a2a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J

    Ethnic group
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    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Yaan View Post
    It is because u are only 6 people. Albanians have more E-V13 then R1b-HT 35 and also do not forget J2b2. I2a is also big in Tosk especially
    Where are we Ev-13 and J2b2 ? 23 and me ? Ancestry ? Genografic ? I have not idea..

  22. #22
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albania View Post
    Where are we Ev-13 and J2b2 ? 23 and me ? Ancestry ? Genografic ? I have not idea..
    In the samples takes so far, but as I said they are really few , u can check here in wikipedia, click the links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...an_populations

  23. #23
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a2a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: France



    Yaan this results are so old...

  24. #24
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    They are the only true results for Albanians, there is not such thing as old results, results can be old only if a bigger sample come, until big sample comes these are the results for Albanians :)

  25. #25
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    And they are notold see the years, most of the results for other people are the same. Bulgarians and Croats have big nice new samples, so does Italians, Belarus,Iran etc :) Hopefully one day Albania, Serbia and Greece will also have it will help us understand better. Also if u r involved in Family Tree, u guys should start inviting people u r just 6 people and there are maybe 30 or more tested Albanians, maybe send them e-mail so they join the project :)

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