Estimating Germanic Y-DNA in Iberia

[mani]

There are certainly Germanic DNA in Portugal and Spain, because of the large history of Europe.

I think, there was already some Germanic DNA before the Celts (people) and later the Romans (politics) went to Iberia.

A lot of present Germanic DNA could be of Suevi or Goth origin, but there are also Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Vikings and other Germanic DNA in Iberia. The middle ages brought also Germanic DNA to Iberia.

People who know Iberia can find out that there are lots of isolated locations. Most of them are around the coasts (mountains) and regions like Extremadura.

If in a village or area exists more Suevi, Goth, Franks or other Germanic DNA is often a question of Iberian regional history.

Suevi-Germanic is not Nordic. I would say it could be a variation of North-, Middle- and East-Continental-Europe, where the Suebi-Germanic tribes came from.

I think some people in Portugal and Spain carries a Germanic DNA.

Some of them carries only the Y-DNA, only the mt-DNA or autosomal DNA or more.

We can’t say whether the typical autosomal DNA Suevi is only blond and has got only green or blue eyes, but these characteristics come from North-, Middle- and East-Europe, isn’t it ?

However, I think,the Celts, the Scandinavians and most tribes of East Europe also carried blond hair and green or blue eyes.

[Fire Haired14]

@Mani,

I agree there's Germanic ancestry in Iberia. However Ancient DNA tells us little has changed in Iberia since 1500 BC. So, the Germanic input must be small.

[mani]

@Mani,

I agree there's Germanic ancestry in Iberia. However Ancient DNA tells us little has changed in Iberia since 1500 BC. So, the Germanic input must be small.

Ancient DNA of 1500 BC can’t tell us what happend after this time.

I think, ancient DNA of 1500 BC doesn’t tell us much about Germanic DNA in Spain,because at that time the Germanic culture began to exist and expand in some parts of North Continental Europe.

But,at first, it could be that very few families went to Iberia as heardsmen from the time Germanic culture began to exist. In that case, Germanic DNA had been there before the Celts.

Later,with exodus and migration of people, the Germanic DNA came to Iberia. I think that was with the Suevi, Goths and some few Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, Vandals.

After or during the „Reconquista“ there were certainly migrations to populate empty zones with Christian Franks and others.

I am sure, after 1500 BC, Germanic-DNA increased in Iberia more than before.

However, there are not many if we compare with the whole Iberian population.

But I think there are more than we believe to see, because Y-DNA and MTDNA are not visible.

Autosomal-DNA, the visible one, can be a kind of highlight for the Germanic-DNA in a village or area and that there are more Germanic DNA in form of invisible Y-DNA and MTDNA.

For instance, a man in a family looks like Germanic. He test his Y-DNA. His resultis are Germanic-DNA. His father, one of his grandfathers, his sons, his brothers don’t look like Germanic, but at least for Y-DNA they are Germanic, too.

[Fire Haired14]

@Mani,

The accepted theory is: Germanic languages evolved in Scandinavia between 2500 and 500 BC. The common ancestor all Germanic languages existed in 500 BC. After 500 BC Germanic languages expanded out of Scandinavia.

This means: It is impossible for there to be any significant Germanic presence in Iberia in 1500 BC.

So, if Iberians in 1500 BC were basically the same as Iberians today it is impossible for there to be very significant Germanic ancestry. There is certainly some but it isn't significant.

[mani]

@Mani,

The accepted theory is: Germanic languages evolved in Scandinavia between 2500 and 500 BC. The common ancestor all Germanic languages existed in 500 BC. After 500 BC Germanic languages expanded out of Scandinavia. .

Why do English people say German-ic and not Scandinavian to Germanic DNA?

I think, North Germany and its areas around was the centre of Germanic origins. The first Germanic Scandinavians were the people of Denmark and then northbound to Sweden and Norway.

The people in North Germany and its areas became first Germanic when they mixed with the imigrated Indo-Europeans, coming from the East on Continental Europe.

This means: It is impossible for there to be any significant Germanic presence in Iberia in 1500 BC.

I agree with this. At this time, I suppose, there wasn’t any Germanic DNA in Iberia.“But, at the time when Germanic began to exist were possibilities to get there.”

So, if Iberians in 1500 BC were basically the same as Iberians today it is impossible for there to be very significant Germanic ancestry. There is certainly some but it isn't significant.

From 1500 BC to now the Germanic DNA increased with the Suevis, Goths etc. Not very significant but they are there, more than we believe. I am sure they are some villages and areas with more Germanic DNA than on average.

I would say any DNA in Iberia in 1500 BC was Germanic. I think, the Megalithic I2a2a-M223 found in La Mina is clear not Germanic and maybe it became a part of original Iberian people in that peninsula.

The I2a2a-M223 which went to North Germany certainly became with other DNAs (Indo-Europeans)Germanic.

[Muhammad Isa]

Pedro Gomes you are � lier in majority North center south they looks like Mediteranean ( mostly iberian and North African, Levantin syrian palestinian, Italian, Anatolian Turkey, Greek, South France) and in minority we have little population who looks like North France for exemple but its minority !

I Come from Vila Do Conde neighbours of Povoa de Varzim , 15 km to Porto

[Muhammad Isa]

WE have only 1-3% haplogroup i1 and its In only North portugal its nothing
WE are iberian with Big admixture North African and Italian

[Muhammad Isa]

No th� nordic people was in majority the Wisigoth, Suebi and Vandal with minority Viking WE had nothing or very very very little frank

[nuno77]

WE have only 1-3% haplogroup i1 and its In only North portugal its nothing
WE are iberian with Big admixture North African and Italian

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...y_region.shtml


Portugal
I1 - 2
I2a - 1.5
I2b - 3
R1a - 1.5
R1b - 56
G2a - 6.5
J2 - 9.5
J1 - 3
E1b1b - 14
T - 2.5
Q - 0.5
N1c1 - 0

[nuno77]

No th� nordic people was in majority the Wisigoth, Suebi and Vandal with minority Viking WE had nothing or very very very little frank

Curiously enough, our first King, D. Afonso Henriques, is a descendent of Frankish nobles and even Kings.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cl%C3...se-king-tayeb-

[ophiussa]

this is a old post , but by the advances in dna testing i can say that the Iberian are a composite of Germanic Celtic , north Balkans admix of peoples Serbs Croats bronze age there is so many ancient samples in that areas that confirm it , when talking about Germanic , it is not related to Nordic Germanic tribes but at cis-alpine Germanic ones from Hallstatt and la tene

[ophiussa]

no matter from where you come from , if you have a full genome test you can track your snps to ancient shared ancestors samples that are published in academia , you will be surprised to see where it will takes you most of the Portuguese that i know of do not plot with the Mediterranean people like you say but yes with the north Balkan people Kosovo , Bulgar , Romanian Serbs Slovenian , Hungary and Serbian ancient samples is a big footprint for the Iberian people DNA in general