New map of R1b-DF27 (SRY2627 + M153)

What study found it in Greece?

The guy from the Greek FTDNA project who has it must be Arvanite or Vlach but not from there supposedly.
Maybe Arvanite of Catalan origin. It would make sense for those who know Greek history, although it would seem weird.

I guess for these ducats, they were not directly possessions of Kingdom of Aragon but of Kingdom of Sicily but in our army there were a sizeable number of Catalan and Aragonese soldiers and some Catalan merchants who settled in Neopatria too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Neopatras

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Athens
 
2016 results from Family Tree indicate a frequency of R-DF27 at up to 12% in England in certain districts.

In most English regions R-DF27 is above 5%.

You may be right. Data on DF27 was very sparse until recently. There hasn't been any academic paper testing it in the British Isles. So I went to FTDNA's R1b project and counted all R1b subclades for each region and calculate frequencies myself. Here is what I got.

Scotland (n=272)

DF27 : 7.5%
L21 : 60.5%
U152 : 6.5%
U106 : 17%
Other R1b : 4.5%

Northern Ireland (n=134)

DF27 : 10.5%
L21 : 68.5%
U152 : 4.5%
U106 : 10.5%
Other R1b : 4.5%

Ireland (n=270)

DF27 : 5.5%
L21 : 81.5%
U152 : 2%
U106 : 9%
Other R1b : 2%

Wales (n=29)

DF27 : 10.5%
L21 : 48.5%
U152 : 3.5%
U106 : 27.5%
Other R1b : 10.5%

SW England (n=136)

DF27 : 15.5%
L21 : 23.5%
U152 : 6.5%
U106 : 37.5%
Other R1b : 17%

SE England (n=109)

DF27 : 15.5%
L21 : 25.5%
U152 : 13%
U106 : 34%
Other R1b : 12.5%

East Anglia (n=46)

DF27 : 13.5%
L21 : 21.5%
U152 : 19.5%
U106 : 27%
Other R1b : 8.5%

Midlands (n=142)

DF27 : 17.5%
L21 : 29.5%
U152 : 10.5%
U106 : 33%
Other R1b : 9%

Northern England (n=72)

DF27 : 16.5%
L21 : 23.5%
U152 : 14%
U106 : 33.5%
Other R1b : 12.5%


Keep in mind that these are only percentages within R1b, not the frequency in the total population. But anyway I will need to update the map again. The actual frequencies of R1b-DF27 should be approximately this:

Scotland: 5.5% (but very little of it in the Highlands)
Northern Ireland: 7.5%
Ireland: 4.5%
Wales: 7.5% (not representative considering the low sample size)
Northern England: 9-11%
Midlands: 11%
East Anglia: 7.5%
SE England: 10%
SW England : 11%
 
I have now updated the map. I also revised the frequencies upward for northern and eastern France, the Benelux, southwest Germany, Switzerland and northern Italy, based on the FTDNA R1b Project. It might even be higher as southwest Germany and Switzerland show almost as much DF27 as U106 and U152! In Belgium, the Brabant DNA Project only tested U106 and U152 but found a remaining 21% of R1b-P312, and surely less than half is L21. Data for France is still despairingly sparse.

Haplogroup-R1b-DF27.png
 
I think DF27 in Sicily came via mainland Italian repopulation (a significant number of the settlers moved from north west Italy too) after muslim expulsion more than with Aragonese and Catalan merchants and soldiers.
 
I think DF27 in Sicily came via mainland Italian repopulation (a significant number of the settlers moved from north west Italy too) after muslim expulsion more than with Aragonese and Catalan merchants and soldiers.

Or from the Normans...
 
Could also be possible and these mainland Italians came with Normans-Swabians indeed. Around 15 inland cities have also nowadays a typical North Italian influenced dialect and the Sicilian language has many words derived from gallo-romance (North Italiand and French) even if we are italo-romance speaking.
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_language

Local languages usualy reflect ancient superstrates, and maybe such influence could paralel the Y DNA influence, and if so the Norman DNA share would be scanty (as in time and vocabulary).
There is more Proven?al, Northern Italian and Tuscan influences in modern Sicilian than Norman or Germanic who are also present both as dialect and as Y-DNA, especially in the western part of the island, who has high I and Catania has one of the peaks of R1b U106 in Italy according to Sarno et al. The first mentioned together with other mainland Italians played a role in the repopoulation of the island. One of my surname's family is common in North Italy too, and my paternal surname is present all over Italy.
 
DF27+ is a wide ranging group that extends from Portugal to the highlands of eastern Armenia. Some of the Nordvedt so-called "N-S cluster" have a completely north European distribution, even though they are just a few steps upstream of the branches common amongst *modern* Basque speakers. To the best of my knowledge, M153, or Z214 (xM153) will be the common type of N-S cluster amongst these guys.
 
What study found it in Greece?

The guy from the Greek FTDNA project who has it must be Arvanite or Vlach but not from there supposedly.
Maybe Arvanite of Catalan origin. It would make sense for those who know Greek history, although it would seem weird.

The most simple explanation is that the Greek spot would be the product of the Almogàvers (Catalan mercenaries); the Byzantine emperor Andronicus II hired such mercenaries to fight against the Turks, but with such success that his son Michael IX feared the treaty that the mercenaries would get the half of his empire, so that he did a complot to kill them... but the surviving soldiers got a punitive vengeance and massacre. After such actions they founded a military republic (like that of the Crusaders but in Orthodox territory), people there remembered them as wrongdoers.

https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venjança_Catalana
 
There is the data of FTDNA that was published a few months ago


d109434a9e66aad55a8b10c4677dbba3.png
 

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There is the data of FTDNA that was published a few months ago


d109434a9e66aad55a8b10c4677dbba3.png


Thanks for sharing. The DF27 frequencies are a bit lower in this table than what I calculated above because I excluded all R1b results that were not tested for subclades.
 
Hello DNA-world. My name is Vic van Lijf and my family comes from Maastricht, since 1670. (Where d'Artagnan died outside the walls) The name Lijf is the dialect form of Leuven, the Belgian University town. My DNA is R1b-cts4549, what I found in a few steps testing. I started genealogy because of the strange name: Lijf in Dutch means body but all names with "van" are toponyms. And, indeed, ultimately is was Leuven. I am still having tested 2 other members of my ancestry-tree. Waiting for results.
 
@maciano,Not that it really matters. But when is it going to happen that drawing maps of R1B in Portugal is it going to be correct and show the most southern region of Portugal as over 70% r1b? Actually the two most higher R1b percentages in Portugal are south of Tagus river (setubal) and in the most southern region (algarve). True that 100 km region of Alentejo is only 40% r1b and has almost all haplos. But this maps of yours should be correct. Sort of as on purpose to tell "they never get there"... see the visual impact?
 
What study found it in Greece?

The guy from the Greek FTDNA project who has it must be Arvanite or Vlach but not from there supposedly.
Maybe Arvanite of Catalan origin. It would make sense for those who know Greek history, although it would seem weird.
Catalan! Albanians don't appear on this map having this subclade! Interesting how mixed Greece is! how long did Catalans stay in Greece?
 
@maciano,Not that it really matters. But when is it going to happen that drawing maps of R1B in Portugal is it going to be correct and show the most southern region of Portugal as over 70% r1b? Actually the two most higher R1b percentages in Portugal are south of Tagus river (setubal) and in the most southern region (algarve). True that 100 km region of Alentejo is only 40% r1b and has almost all haplos. But this maps of yours should be correct. Sort of as on purpose to tell "they never get there"... see the visual impact?


Interesting, I never would have thought of those percentages for the Algarve region. Do we have enough samples to get a good resolution, if so then what could account for that? I am very well versed in portuguese history and the supposed R1b bearers would have settled mostly in the "Entre-Douro-e-Minho"(Galacians) and the Alentejo region (Celtici). In my long-held opinion, the southernmost areas of Portugal were massively depopulated and settled by christians from the north. That could be the reason for such high proportion of r1b, a kind of founder effect where the men that came to the algarve were mostly R1b. Still very interesting.

PS: The Lusitani are still a debated issue but I think that if not celtic they were indo-european at least.
 
Interesting, I never would have thought of those percentages for the Algarve region. Do we have enough samples to get a good resolution, if so then what could account for that? I am very well versed in portuguese history and the supposed R1b bearers would have settled mostly in the "Entre-Douro-e-Minho"(Galacians) and the Alentejo region (Celtici). In my long-held opinion, the southernmost areas of Portugal were massively depopulated and settled by christians from the north. That could be the reason for such high proportion of r1b, a kind of founder effect where the men that came to the algarve were mostly R1b. Still very interesting.

PS: The Lusitani are still a debated issue but I think that if not celtic they were indo-european at least.

I think he took the percentages from the paper Beleza et. al 2006. These:

"https://s26.postimg.org/4pjmadr2x/y-dna_Portugal.png"
 
@Punhetadebacalhau,
Correct.

@suebiking,
with 76 in Algarve and 78 in Setubal, and both not having at all later R1b3f (later Val d'Aran type) to me its obvious. They were in Algarve for a very long time. The result of the Turduli tribes. Portuguese are most Turduli (even tough turduli could be later also called Lusitanians). Turduli were the remaining of the arrival population from 3300bc that blocked the passage to the left bank of Guadiana and hence made the birth of Portugal. That moment defined Portuguese history (or pre-history) Portuguese own their existence to whomever settled in Mercador, Paraiso, juromenha, and blocked passage to big places such as Porto Torrão, Perdigoes, etc.

Well see http://r1b2westerneurope.blogs.sapo.pt/ and to a very ancient dive http://shulaveri2bellbeaker.blogs.sapo.pt/

Great read for summer this here at the beach. :)
 

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