Etruscans, where from, Anatolia, Africa or Italy?

Aberdeen said:
There are two places in Italy called Atria, previously Hatria. The more northerly one was founded by Etruscans and later colonized by Greeks, but there's nothing about it to connect it to Anatolia, except to the extent that most of the population of western Europe, including Italy, seems to be descended from people who migrated there from the Middle East during the Neolithic. The Etruscans did speak a non-IE language, but it was probably one that developed in situ.
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so you found Hatria, now you know about 1200 BC as Etruscan existance, and not 800 BC.

not sharin the below, since my knowlwedge is limited to that, but many scholars say that even the word Helvetie (swiss) is from Pelasgian origin,

besides how can you explain that the Etruscan cemeteries in Lemnos are at least 1000 +- 100 BC
 
Yetos said:
so you found Hatria, now you know about 1200 BC as Etruscan existance, and not 800 BC.

not sharin the below, since my knowlwedge is limited to that, but many scholars say that even the word Helvetie (swiss) is from Pelasgian origin,

besides how can you explain that the Etruscan cemeteries in Lemnos are at least 1000 +- 100 BC
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Etruscans were Greeks?
 
Vinnie said:
Etruscans were Greeks?
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no,

Etruscan are the ones in Italy,
Pelasgians are the ones in Greece,

Greeks or Ellenes are IE, at least spoke IE, either from minor Asia either from Istros
Pelasgians are the
or 1 all the pre IE substractum (Eteo-Cretans, Lycaones, Carinthians, Phillistines)
or 2 a non IE Asian population that passed from Greece and ended to Thyrrenia (Hattians?)
or 3 the Troyans (Hattians?)
or 4 last of Summerians

except the remants from Ottomans, all the non IE words in Greek are consider Pelasgian,
 
Yetos said:
no,

Etruscan are the ones in Italy,
Pelasgians are the ones in Greece,

Greeks or Ellenes are IE, at least spoke IE, either from minor Asia either from Istros
Pelasgians are the
1 all the pre IE substractum (Eteo-Cretans, Lycaones, Carinthians, Phillistines)
2 a non IE Asian population that passed from Greece and ended to Thyrrenia (Hattians?)
3 the Troyans (Hattians?)
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What I mean is did Etruscans came from Pelasgians? Meaning did they live first in Greece and then moved to Italy. You don't think they came from Central European/ Villanovan?
 
Vinnie said:
What I mean is did Etruscans came from Pelasgians? Meaning did they live first in Greece and then moved to Italy. You don't think they came from Central European/ Villanovan?
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That is the point, what we call Etruscan is mostly after 800 BC, but many things indicate that Etruscans were before 1200, can't rememember where but I read about another wave of same people at 1700m+-,
for example we also know that in Istros/Slovenia exist 3 Carni+... cities (Carnios Apollo. Corinth, Caria, Karia alla are connected) which might have or maybe not have corelation, although seems that it has.

I mean that maritime road was known from the times of Hettit,
All these populations created vilanovan culture, but the max/last is what we say Etruscan.

compining ancient writers even Hesiodos Theogony, except Dionysios, all fit with what we call non IE Greek toponyms and vocabulary for example Attika

also the dates fits well, the majority left minor Asia 50 years before Bryges moved from Balkans to Asia and named as Phrygians.

the time that sea paoples are silenced or stop piracy in East meditterenean starts Etruria/Thyrsenia

to enter in Genetics the problem is the 2 groups of G2a3***, the Aeagean, the Alpen, in some Etruscan tomps found G2a3 Alpen Group, which lead to be from Swiss, yet J2 seems to be Asian minor,
Dogs and cattle DNA shows minor Asia,

the ancient Greek dog Alopekis (estimeted entrance in Greece 3500 BC) is found also in Thyrrenians pets.

NOW THE BIG PROBLEM WHICH I CAN NOT SOLVE.
THEY WERE HATTIANS? OR THEY WERE VINCA/VARNA TRIBES?

for Characteristic in an Etruscan tomp a pottery writes Elluveitie which might mean Helveti?, or something like goodmornig?

remember the term Hellas can be explained by both IE and Akkadian
 
As already said, the present scholarship no longer debates on this subject (since Pallatino) as they don't have any consensus on the answer.
The Etruscans are certainly a mix of native and oriental people. This thread can go on indefinitely.
 
joeyc said:
Etruscans were native pre indoeuropean Italians.
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Absolutely correct! Most of forum's people here think that magically from Anatolia, with wooden ships Etruscans disembarked were today Tuscany is. Randomly. Its recorded in ancient books of Greeks that there were Pre-Greek, pre Latin populations in the area, that corresponds with early farmers Ev-13 and J2 people. Those people had occupied most of today's Europe. In Balkans there were Pellasgs, so were in south and central Italy. Etruskcs are just a branch of them.
 
Diviacus said:
As already said, the present scholarship no longer debates on this subject (since Pallatino) as they don't have any consensus on the answer.
The Etruscans are certainly a mix of native and oriental people. This thread can go on indefinitely.
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That's right, why not both.
 
Please show genetic evidence for Anatolian origin of the Etruscans.
 
albanopolis said:
Absolutely correct! Most of forum's people here think that magically from Anatolia, with wooden ships Etruscans disembarked were today Tuscany is. Randomly. Its recorded in ancient books of Greeks that there were Pre-Greek, pre Latin populations in the area, that corresponds with early farmers Ev-13 and J2 people. Those people had occupied most of today's Europe. In Balkans there were Pellasgs, so were in south and central Italy. Etruskcs are just a branch of them.
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E-V13 is upsent in Neolithic farmers, read the thread, it was not in Summerians, not in Anatolian farmers, it very late, same time with Hettits.
All late search show no E-V13 until 2-2500 BC.

except if you have a scientific research like a TV show.

better read this

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30215-The-agricultural-booming-populations-in-Europe


There was no E-V13 in Vinca and Varna and Sesklo
 
joeyc said:
Please show genetic evidence for Anatolian origin of the Etruscans.
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I am a G2a3*.
I spoke about that in my post #85
also you can find about alopekis dog origin, also name as the 'Pelasgian Dog'
 
Yetos said:
That is the point, what we call Etruscan is mostly after 800 BC, but many things indicate that Etruscans were before 1200, can't rememember where but I read about another wave of same people at 1700m+-,
for example we also know that in Istros/Slovenia exist 3 Carni+... cities (Carnios Apollo. Corinth, Caria, Karia alla are connected) which might have or maybe not have corelation, although seems that it has.

I mean that maritime road was known from the times of Hettit,
All these populations created vilanovan culture, but the max/last is what we say Etruscan.

compining ancient writers even Hesiodos Theogony, except Dionysios, all fit with what we call non IE Greek toponyms and vocabulary for example Attika

also the dates fits well, the majority left minor Asia 50 years before Bryges moved from Balkans to Asia and named as Phrygians.

the time that sea paoples are silenced or stop piracy in East meditterenean starts Etruria/Thyrsenia

to enter in Genetics the problem is the 2 groups of G2a3***, the Aeagean, the Alpen, in some Etruscan tomps found G2a3 Alpen Group, which lead to be from Swiss, yet J2 seems to be Asian minor,
Dogs and cattle DNA shows minor Asia,

the ancient Greek dog Alopekis (estimeted entrance in Greece 3500 BC) is found also in Thyrrenians pets.

NOW THE BIG PROBLEM WHICH I CAN NOT SOLVE.
THEY WERE HATTIANS? OR THEY WERE VINCA/VARNA TRIBES?

for Characteristic in an Etruscan tomp a pottery writes Elluveitie which might mean Helveti?, or something like goodmornig?

remember the term Hellas can be explained by both IE and Akkadian
Click to expand...

G2a3a is the Anatolian group
G2a3b is the caucasus group..................where otzi came from
 
Aberdeen said:
If you read the pro-Anatolian studies carefully, they basically say "We're really grasping at straws here, but we still want to believe that Etruscans came from Anatolia."

The "Middle Eastern" influences that arrived in Italy after the Neolithic were mostly brought there by Greek colonists.
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I didn't say I supported that hypothesis, in fact I'm pretty sure the latest studies suggest an indigenous European origin rather than a near eastern one. I just posted a link that shows both sides of the argument.
 
Aberdeen said:
If you read the pro-Anatolian studies carefully, they basically say "We're really grasping at straws here, but we still want to believe that Etruscans came from Anatolia."

The "Middle Eastern" influences that arrived in Italy after the Neolithic were mostly brought there by Greek colonists.
Click to expand...

there is no genetic proof
but the knowledge of iron smelting must have come from somewhere
it must have been a small band of fugitives or adventurers with that knowledge who were attracted to the ores to be found in Tuscany
they build villages on steep hilltops, easy defendable
they must have formed a small eltie ruling over the local celtic/italic tribes
they were so small in numbers, soon some local celts/italics infiltrated into the elite
they didn't leave any detectable genetical trace

that seems to be a parsimonious explanation to me
 
bicicleur said:
there is no genetic proof
but the knowledge of iron smelting must have come from somewhere
it must have been a small band of fugitives or adventurers with that knowledge who were attracted to the ores to be found in Tuscany
they build villages on steep hilltops, easy defendable
they must have formed a small eltie ruling over the local celtic/italic tribes
they were so small in numbers, soon some local celts/italics infiltrated into the elite
they didn't leave any detectable genetical trace

that seems to be a parsimonious explanation to me
Click to expand...

One theory is that the Iron Age came out of the collapse of the Bronze Age elites. Once the supply of bronze became much more limited, people were more interested in developing the use of iron as a cheap substitute that could be created from local materials. Such a change needn't have been dependent on large migrations or invasions of the type that seem to have been typical of the coming of the Bronze Age in Europe.
 
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