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Thread: Bulgarian haplotypes

  1. #1
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    Bulgarian haplotypes

    Hi all,

    Is it possible to reliably predict I1 subclades which can be found in this table with Bulgarian haplotypes: http://www.plosone.org/article/fetch...e.0056779.s006

    So far my assumption (and not just mine), is that two dominant I1 subclades in Southeast Europe are Z63 and P109. I wonder if Bulgarian data confirms or denies that.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fire Haired's Avatar
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    where do u find these studies. I was suprised out of 251 samples only one I1 and there were six Germanic R1b U106's defintley shows the east Germanic tribes Goths and Vandals left some DNA. There were also sevan Italo Caulish R1b U152's which comes from either La Tene Gauls who ruled areas around Bulgaria at about 300-200bc or Romans.

    I just want to say i dont understand why this website thinks all I1 is either Germanic or Scandnavian. Most Scandnavian I1 is specifally I1a2 most contiental European I1 is I1a1, I1a3, and I1a4. Contiental European I1 does not have a Scandnavian origin. Also what about I1b it is never found in Scandnavia only around Netherland, Belgium, and Germany it probably split from the major clade I1a thousands of years ago. In my opinon I1a came with the first settlment in Scandinavia 11,000ybp and I1 originated in central Europe. Since there is I1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b in central Europe but almost only I1a2 in Scandinavia it seems I1 started in central Europe and one lineage migrated to Scandinavia.

    I1 in Scandinavia does not repsent any cultures in the Neloithic age or Bronze-iron age. N1c repsents Kunda culture which existsed 7,000ybp R1a represent Corded ware culture R1b and I2a2 repsent Nordic bronze age culture. I1 though is the base Y DNA haplogroup of Scandinavia the original one. I cant wait till ancient Y DNA samples with I1 finally prove wrong those pathetic age dates of 4,000-5,000 years old. There is a 7,000 year old hunter gather in Denmark being tested for Y DNA and other things if Denmark back then was connected with the rest of Scandinavia like it is today he will probably have I1a most likely I1a2 which will finally prove I1 is much older than they say.

  3. #3
    Banned nordicwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    where do u find these studies. I was suprised out of 251 samples only one I1 and there were six Germanic R1b U106's defintley shows the east Germanic tribes Goths and Vandals left some DNA. There were also sevan Italo Caulish R1b U152's which comes from either La Tene Gauls who ruled areas around Bulgaria at about 300-200bc or Romans.

    I just want to say i dont understand why this website thinks all I1 is either Germanic or Scandnavian. Most Scandnavian I1 is specifally I1a2 most contiental European I1 is I1a1, I1a3, and I1a4. Contiental European I1 does not have a Scandnavian origin. Also what about I1b it is never found in Scandnavia only around Netherland, Belgium, and Germany it probably split from the major clade I1a thousands of years ago. In my opinon I1a came with the first settlment in Scandinavia 11,000ybp and I1 originated in central Europe. Since there is I1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b in central Europe but almost only I1a2 in Scandinavia it seems I1 started in central Europe and one lineage migrated to Scandinavia.

    I1 in Scandinavia does not repsent any cultures in the Neloithic age or Bronze-iron age. N1c repsents Kunda culture which existsed 7,000ybp R1a represent Corded ware culture R1b and I2a2 repsent Nordic bronze age culture. I1 though is the base Y DNA haplogroup of Scandinavia the original one. I cant wait till ancient Y DNA samples with I1 finally prove wrong those pathetic age dates of 4,000-5,000 years old. There is a 7,000 year old hunter gather in Denmark being tested for Y DNA and other things if Denmark back then was connected with the rest of Scandinavia like it is today he will probably have I1a most likely I1a2 which will finally prove I1 is much older than they say.
    F.H., it would be helpful if you cited your sources. I'm looking at the I1 SNP maps from FTDNA (which in my opinion is the most accurate source because they show real "boots on the ground") and while L22 does have fewer continental dots, both M253 and P30 have roughly the same number of hits as L22 in Norway, Sweden and Finland. Wouldn't it be beneficial if you ditched the I1a, I1b, etc. so that we are all speaking the same language? The newer SNP methods should prove more accurate on pinpointing I1 subclade movement.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired View Post
    where do u find these studies. I was suprised out of 251 samples only one I1 and there were six Germanic R1b U106's defintley shows the east Germanic tribes Goths and Vandals left some DNA.
    And why did you decide that these Bulgarian U106's are Germanic? I think they have more chances to be Jewish than Germanic. Jewish U106's clades are scattered all over the Eastern and Southern Europe.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloomyGonzales View Post
    And why did you decide that these Bulgarian U106's are Germanic? I think they have more chances to be Jewish than Germanic. Jewish U106's clades are scattered all over the Eastern and Southern Europe.
    Can someone please explain to me what are Jewish markers!

    Can you be a Jew without these markers?...I have asked many people and no-one can tell me
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Fire Haired's Avatar
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    The so called Jewish markers from what i have seen are just Y DNA haplogroups that are common in mainly European Jews. Alot of times they will have their own subclades or everyone will have the same Y DNA haplogroup because of a population bottleneck and they pretty much only breed with each other or their group of Jews. Orignally The ancient jews were just typical people in the area of Israel, Syria, and Palestine from what i know there would not have been really anything unque about them genetically except maybe Y DNA haplogroup from Abraham or important leaders in the Bible like King David.

    white Jews in the western World have a little more European blood since almost all genetic's, Scientits, Historians, or whatever people that have to do with DNA and genetic's are European or western. They are very intrested in Jews which makes sense when u look at history of the western world so there have been tons of studies on Jewish people. On the globe13 aust dna test Ashkenazi jews i think from Germany are

    Med=37.8%( most confusing group peoplular in Europe, mid east, and north africa), west asian(40-50% from Caucus, Anatolia to Pakistan but less than 40% once u get as south Syria)= 22.7%, Southwest asian(mainly around Arabia, Syria area, and north Africa) North Euro(Paloithic aka Cro magnon European)=16.7%, Then they had like 0,3% siberian native american and other stuff which probably is not real ancestry and not significant.


    These are results from Samratiens who are mentioned in the new testament one story the parble of the good smaratien. They used to be Jews but they left the Jewish faith but they think they are the real Jews and the bible says they mixed with Gentiles. They also have only breed with each other for i think as long as they have existed so for well over 2,000 years this has caused them to die from dises that occur when u breed with close relatives. So there are only about 700 left. I would think they are the closest reltives to ancient Jews. There have been globe13 aust dna tests on every single one these are the averages.

    Southwest asian=41.3%, west asian=28.8%, med=28.4%, east african=1.4%(east africans have had contact with mid easterns and north African Caucasians for well over 10,000 years. 9,000 year old Syrian mtDNa proves it also in the Bible Moses had a Ethiopian wife so makes sense).

    So probably about 9% of Askenazi Jews med is from European inter marriage, All 16.7% of their north euro is from European inter marriage, 7-20% of their west asian is from european inter marriage, and 4-15% of their southwest asian. So over all at least 37% of their aust DNA globe13 results are from European inter marriage. i dont know how exact the percentages are but i would guess their about 50% European.

    I dont know that much about the history of Ashkenazi Jews but it seems they settled mainly around the Rhine in Germany and eastern Europe in 600's after Muslim invasion of Isreal. So here are German globe13 aust dna results, and German samartien mix, Greek Samartian and german-greek Samartien mix.

    Germans
    North Euro=59.2%, med=29.7%, west asian= 7.3%, southwest asian=3.6%

    German-Samaritan mix
    north euro=29.6%, med=24.25%, southwest asian=22.45%, west asian=18.05%

    Greek Samartien mix
    med=33.05%, southwest asian=28.2%, west asian=25.85%, north euro=12.1%

    Ashkenazi Jews
    med=37.8%, west asian=22.7%, southwest asian=20.6%, north euro=16.7%

    German-Greek-Samratian mix
    med=30.975%, North Euro=26.9%, west asian=20.475%, southwest asian=18.775%,

    I dont know it seems Ashkenazi Jews are mainly a mix of noon German Europeans. Probably ones with alot of meditreaen and more west Asian than most Europeans like Greeks or Italians.










  7. #7
    Baron
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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicquarreler View Post
    F.H., it would be helpful if you cited your sources. I'm looking at the I1 SNP maps from FTDNA (which in my opinion is the most accurate source because they show real "boots on the ground")....
    Have you ever seen R-M429 or S2- S22 mapped. Actually quite revealing how I1 shares with Saudi's sometimes I wonder if I1 and I2 should just be renamed and put J1-J2-J3 -J4 .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Can someone please explain to me what are Jewish markers!
    Some suspect they are also R1a Z93+ also known as a P.I.E marker Oye Vey!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Can you be a Jew without these markers?...I have asked many people and no-one can tell me
    Difficult rumor has it that some have tried it without much success.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Some suspect they are also R1a Z93+ also known as a P.I.E marker Oye Vey!!




    Difficult rumor has it that some have tried it without much success.
    so regardless of which DNA companies I use , they all have a maximum of 0.1% of Jewish for me, even though my marker is initially mid-east.
    23andme = 0.1%
    Doug mcdonald = 0.0%
    Ftdna = 0.1%
    DNATribes = 0.0%

    Does having these alleles which are Jewish indicate any idea of where these alleles originated?

  10. #10
    Regular Member Kristiyan's Avatar
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    Post I1 in Bulgaria

    Hello,

    You can check all haplogroups from maternal and paternal line, as well as SNPs of Bulgarians here on the page of the Bulgarian Genetic Genealogy Project:

    familytreedna.com/groups/bulgariandna/dna-results (I put the link this way because as being hew here I'm not allowed to post links)

    I can't hardly see any I1-P109, but we bulgarians have I1-CTS6364 (I-Z2336), I-58, I-Z63, according livingdna 7% from bulgarian men have this haplogroup, so do I.

    Here there are my assumptions about the emergence of this haplogroup to the Balkans:

    1. First, I1 haplogroup has roots somewhere in Central Europ during the late Paleolit when it separated from the main branch I. After that it appeared in the Scandinavian Peninsula around 3000 year BC, later migrated again to the British Isles and Northern Europe, somewhere in the middle of the Bronze Age 1700 BC.
    2. The first massive migrations of this group were with the celts came from central Europe 400 years BC.
    3. The second wave was with the Goths between 3 and 4 centuries during the Goth-Roman wars. After that with the Alano-Goths invasions 5-6 centuries AD. With the Balto-Slavo-Germanic tribes settled on the Balkans 6-7 centuries. And also with the ostrogoths came probably with Bulgarians from the region of the Crimean peninsula 7-8 century.

    4. Another way for I1 to come to the Balkans were variangian invasions from Kievan Rus in the 10th century AD and Viking mercenaries served in the Eastern Roman Empire
    5. The Normans and the Latin Empire, which they founded in the 13th century, are another possible way for the branches of this haplogroup to end up to the Balkans.
    6. And the last way I found and the least known are the Saxon miners, called also by the locals - Sasi, who came to the Balkans in the 13th-14th centuries, invited by the local kings of Serbia, Bosnia and Bulgaria to mine iron ore and produce high-quality steel needed for production of weapons and tools for household and agriculture works.

    Here is some information from Wikipedia about the Saxon miners (Sassi) in Serbia.

    The earliest mention of the Saxons in Serbia is from 1253-54, which shows them as an established community. These Saxons, or Sassi, inhabited the Kingdom of Serbia during the reign of Stefan Uroš I (b. 1243–1276), from the Kingdom of Hungary. Under Stefan Uros I, Serbia became a significant power in the Balkans, in part due to economic development through the opening of mines. The mines were developed by Sassi, who had experience in mining. Their minefields had a privileged status - they lived by their own laws and were allowed to adhere to Catholicism and build their churches. The mines include Barskovo, Novo Bardo and others.

    7. I dont know Jews to be significant part of this haplotype but if so this happened when the Jews were expelled from Spain and moved to the Ottoman Empire in the 16th century.

    Greetings
    Last edited by Kristiyan; 13-06-21 at 22:09. Reason: fixing mistakes :)

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