Spain Vs UK - Gibraltar

[Carlos]

In the Treaty of decolonization of Gibraltar common interests prevail over the views of the people of Gibraltar, sorry the thing is well and Spain will not bow to 29. 000 settlers Gibraltarians.


To speak of Catalonia and there is another thread that is Gibraltar understand his obsession but can not drag the topic of Catalonia in all threads are the subject might be.

[Knovas]

Thanks for your advice Carlos, but let me remind that you also mention Catalonia...¬¬

What really matters regarding colonies is the right to self-determination, which by the way is universal. Stop twisting things. Gibraltarians decided two times on referendum to remain in the UK.

End of discussion, forget about it because you lost Gibraltar to stop England's intervention in Catalonia. They don't want to be Spanish, neither the Catalans. Result: Epic fail!

[Carlos]

Most Gibraltarians are not home are Spanish settlers arrived there from many parts of the world are foreign settlers and decolonization treaty prevails over view of a few settlers Gibraltarians.


And it's a shame to say that Catalonia is a colony, perhaps referring to the colony (perfume) or Baron nenuco dandy. At what point did you hate your own country is a personal question? Do you remember that time accoutrements and meaningless?

[Knovas]

I never said is a colony, but you seem to identify some issues as for instance the settlers. Who do you think are mostly the ones who don't want independence in Catalonia? Right, you guessed: Spanish people working there or descendants from just one generation.

By the way, I love my country, Catalonia, and I don't hate Spain. I'm just tired of its politicians and intolerant individuals like you who deny evidence and history. May I remind you the wrong info you posted yesterday? lol

Like it or not, Gibraltar's populations is what it is thanks to the Spanish agreement with England 300 years ago. You wanted Catalonia, and now you see you have nothing. Your decision, your fault. Sorry

[Carlos]

Gibraltar is a colony of one EU country to another EU country and that is something against the foundations of the EU There is a treaty of decolonization of Gibraltar where of course the opinion of settlers not supersede the interests of a European nation which is affected in this case Spain.


About the inhabitants of Catalonia who are not first generation of Catalan origin or whatever they are calling their country in a region of Spain do not forget that the Spanish Constitution provides for free movement of Spanish throughout the country as there Catalans living in the other Spanish regions.


PS: I see you as much as you would remove gastronomy thread lies and myths of Catalan nationalism will answer for education because it is the topic of the thread.

[Wilhelm]

I agree that Gibraltar belonged to Spain in 1713, so it is a stolen territory.

[Knovas]

If you post lies in the forum you are exposed to face the consequences, that's what happened with the so called "Myths and Lies of the Catalan nationalism", which I proved it is rather "Myths and Lies of the Spanish nationalism. So be careful and maybe you stop embarassing yourself.

For the second time, you're not fooling anyone. The EU is founded first of all under the precepts of democracy, so what really matters the most is the opinion already given by the Gibraltarian people. The EU will never force the Gibraltarians to be something they don't want to or change their lifes completely, never. It maybe could happen in your parallel universe, not in real world I'm afraid.

For me a Catalan is someone who lives and works there, no problem with that. Doesn't matter because it is all about majorities, and the vast majority realised it is impossible to go on hand by hand with Spain. It never worked, the last oportunity was after Franco's dictatorship and you simply failed because of your arrogance. With or without constitution, the same you cannot force Gibraltarians, you no longer can force the Catalan people. Take it easy.

PD: Not stolen, it was an agreement with England to serve Castillian interests. They could choose to keep Gibraltar, but the choice was another. When the Gibraltarians claim their will to be part of Spain, then I will agree.

[Carlos]

And besides being a tax haven and live in Spain with smuggling have a plant there espionage and intelligence that is a danger to the EU I hope that Ms. Merkel to step forward and think that the EU not only are cucumbers, it is time to put more than one in your site.


Spain is of interest to U.S.A. We are in the middle of the world for that reason have the Rota naval base. Gibraltar to Rota Naval Base is a strategic point is all that serves to damage the EU


I have my hopes for Ms. Merkel to an international conflico Europe would be the first to go are too hot around us. And do not forget that before we went to Spain USA power us with many more millennia back so it is you who are interested in the strategic situation of Spain is not in you and let us already in the movies paint us as indigenous phenotypes that we try and shame are the nation that gave them being.

They've been sniffing around our altar what are you looking for?

[Noman]

E1b1b1a1c*+ J1C.

So, are you an obscure habsburg offshoot or some other royal then, Carlos?

Suddenly your crazy ranting makes some sense.

[Carlos]

E1b1b1a1c*+ J1C.

So, are you an obscure habsburg offshoot or some other royal then, Carlos?

Suddenly your crazy ranting makes some sense.

It's possible I have a cousin who knows paternal lower jaw with a span now operated and good and I was saved because a tooth was in the correct position and served to stop the growth of the lower jaw after me and I have made ​​a dentition orthodontics perfect.


And my father has a strong resemblance to the King Juan Carlos I of Spain that starting now call the indivisible Spain because Spain is indivisible.


I can not really know because I am the paternal origin of a population created by Carlos III and its policy of new populations of Andalusia and also the files were burned by the Communists in the preambles of the Spanish Civil War. The only legend in my father's family is that we came from a deserter from Napoleon's troops but with the passage of time may have been confusion between a Spanish deserter or a deserter from Napoleon's troops so possibly never know, although I have always intuited that I have a good Spanish royal blood always aspires to nobility.

[Noman]

It could even be lowland wars or something. Hmm, would be quite excited to find lines of more royals so if you ever find more don't keep it secret.

[Carlos]

It could even be lowland wars or something. Hmm, would be quite excited to find lines of more royals so if you ever find more don't keep it secret.

But are things one senses or has somehow intuited but without any scientific proof or documentary for that reason it is difficult to go around saying: I think I have I can be related to a King people would think that this is really pedantic or an intuition that something.

[Noman]

Yeah, I know. We could both be related for that matter, but maybe you have an aunt who will track down some of it at some point like mine has been doing and get some solid info. But records get hard to find if you go back a couple centuries and hop a few countries, so I think she is pretty well stuck now. But when I get my whole genome sequenced I will put the whole thing up online, see what matches are out there in fine detail.

[Carlos]

Yeah, I know. We could both be related for that matter, but maybe you have an aunt who will track down some of it at some point like mine has been doing and get some solid info. But records get hard to find if you go back a couple centuries and hop a few countries, so I think she is pretty well stuck now. But when I get my whole genome sequenced I will put the whole thing up online, see what matches are out there in fine detail.

According'll be in touch.

[Coolboygcp]

Gibraltar is not a colony, it is a territory. Gibraltar is British. The people who live there are not settlers. They are Gibraltarians. Several hundred years ago, their ancestors were settlers. That is like saying that if someone had a relative from France, several hundred years back, that they are French. It makes no sense.

Additionally, regarding Catalonia, the Catalan people want independence. And, they shall most likely get it within a few years.

[Carlos]

Settlers of Gibraltar must know that it is very uncomfortable to live in a colony.

[Ua'Ronain]

You can say that Gibraltar is a stolen territory but to do so is in my opinion simplistic and the easy way out of really thinking. If we went by that logic all land is stolen land from one group to the next. Over the course of history there have been countless population movements, migrations, conquests and more; but they all have the same thing in common. And that is in the end one group takes the land another group called their own. Point anywhere on the globe and the story is the same just with different actors, motives and whatnot. It may be crude or immoral in our modern society to take land from someone by force but none of us living here today can change what happened in the past.


It is part of who we are as a race. In the past war was common and might made right and of course to the victor goes the spoils of war. Try to deny it all you want but we are/were a warlike people no matter where you hail from. It is something every civilization shares in common and our ancestors no matter where they hail from did the same; it is in our nature the instinct to survive.

But we should agree that it is unjust and wrong to do so today but we cannot let the misdeeds of the past divide us; it is our duty to overcome the tribulations and atrocities of the past that our generation has inherited. It is easy to blame one another or another nation for the issues we face today. It is simple and easy to put blame on what is different or something you really don’t understand or even agree with but it does not help cure the problem. It creates a situation where hate and blind nationalism turns to violence and in extreme cases death. To overcome these issues we all must learn to compromise and at least have an open and objective mind. Remember just as we inherited a multitude of problems from our ancestors that we did not want; we run the risk of repeating the same mistakes as them and could leave the world worse for our children and those who come after us. Let me be clear here we must break the same cycle that got us here in the first place.

Debate, dialog, compassion and mutual respect are what is needed to solve complicated problems. Don’t fall into the same trap as those who made history before us and make an enemy out of someone because they are different or because you envy what they have or are slighted at what you think is wrong. It solves nothing, creates animosity and prevents all of us from focusing on the more important issues that we all face on a global level. In the end we are all but one people regardless of the language you speak, the color of your skin or how you worship. If you want to be a lesser man and go the easier path; the path that lead us to where we find ourselves today then know that you are part of the problem. These issues are complex and are a real challenge but it is something we can overcome if we are willing to compromise and learn from one another. We can accomplish great things if we would quit letting things divide us and tax our collective energy as a society.

But let me get off of my soapbox and return to the issue of this topic; Gibraltar. Perhaps my view of the matter is different to a native European; but to me Spain and the UK are both members of the European Union. They belong to something greater, a league of nation united “or trying to be” under the same Umbrella and at the end of the day it really does not matter what state claims it as the people who reside there enjoy the same rights and privileges regardless of what state gets to fly the flag. They share freedom of movement, access to travel, live and study where they please. To put it in an American perspective that would be like one state fighting with another state over who controls a chunk of land when in the end it really does not matter as they both belong to the same union of states. So let me ask you all this, are you all so bitter and divided over this issue of the past that we will sit here and wax philosophy about the morals of whom owns what when we could focus on more pressing issues? I guess I dont understand what the EU really is; because if it really is a union of nations then the members should be united and equally a part of something more than themselves and if that is the case it should be a moot point as no matter who owns what they still belong to the same government at the end of the day.

[Carlos]

I believe that Europe or the European Union does not have to consent gaps British bands playing two or three, is a rock, little land, but what they do? we know what they do in Gibraltar, I do not consider it a future European-style places like Gibraltar, and neither is going to buy from supermarkets bare in foreign countries, here we will not have that.