Haplogroup J2, Romans, Christianity and Viticulture

The Achaean Greeks, equivalent to the Danaans of Danaus (brother of aegyptus) are a tribe of Greeks that probably came from Egypt. The initial pelasgian Greeks (first autochtones of Greece) where probably the middle eastern Ionians, who where similar to the Medes and Anatolian groups. The Minoan era belonged to the middle easterners of Crete (J2), their fall came about when the incoming Danaans types would initiate the succeeding Mycenean era centred this time on mainland Greece (E3b). The Mycenaeans would in turn be dominated by the continental European Dorians (probably R1b but maybe even I2a or R1a.)
 
The Dorians are probably the tribe that brought along "Hellenization" of the barbarians. As for the Aeolians, they where barbarians as well. It is this combination of very anciently ancestrally Egyptian, middle eastern and continental European mix that would bring about the fall of the Trojan west Anatolian middle easterners.
 
The spread of J is very interesting. It is found in about 27% of Algerians, for example. 22% of it is J1 and 5% is J2. A whopping 78% of Chechens belong to J, of which 57% are J2 and around 20% are J1. Ingush are an incredible sample, 91% of them are J's, but 88% of it is J2, most of it M-67 I believe. In Yemen, 82% of men are J, the overwhelming majority of it J1 (73%) as is the case across the southern Middle East and North Africa. In Syria on the other hand, 55% of males are J2; 34% are J1 and 21% are J2. In Lebanon, 46% of men are J; 15-17% are J1, and 30% are J2, showing the opposite tren of Syria. Same for turkey, where J2 is 3 times more common than J1. Similar patterns continue in Mediterranean Europe, on crete for example, in the city of Heraklion J2 heavily outweighs J1. (45% J of that,44% is J2). Another study on the entire island found that 38% of Cretans where J, and 35% of that was J2. On mainland Greece, 20% of males are J. 2% of those are J1, and 18% are J2. In Italy, 22% of men are J, 2% J1 and 20% J2.
 
The highest frequencies of J2 in Italy, and nearly in all Europe, is in Calabria, where 35% of males are J2 and western Marche in central Italy, where 35% of men are J2.
 
The highest frequencies of J2 in Italy, and nearly in all Europe, is in Calabria, where 35% of males are J2 and western Marche in central Italy, where 35% of men are J2.

Calabrians are also very high in the non-L11+ R1b lineages...perhaps a movement from the Balkans?
 
Yes, some Greeks must have brought some R1b L-23, the Dorians in particular, who where Hellenic Greeks must have brought the exotic R1b's to southern Italy, as they brought some J2 and E-V13 as well.
 
Haplotype 35

644589_519597904765036_1604809963_n.jpg


"Research conducted by the administrators of the Border Reivers DNA Project has identified numerous haplotypes in persons of British descent that show Haplotype 35 markers. Moreover, most of these haplotypes appear to originate from areas of Britain near the Antonine Wall, Hadrian's Wall and other places of Roman fortification or settlement. These areas include Galloway, Dumfries, Ayrshire and The Borders in Scotland, and Cumbria, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Shropshire and Staffordshire in England. Many of the Roman troops stationed in these areas came from Southeastern Europe or Western Asia. They included Sarmatians, Dacians, Goths, Syrians, Mesopotamians, Thracians and Anatolians. The Capelli study has shown that these areas also exhibit higher than average frequencies of haplogroups E3b and J2, neither of which is native to Britain. E3b is found most commonly in North Africa, Iberia, the Mediterranean and the Near East, and J2 occurs most frequently in the Near East, the Mediterranean and Western Asia. The fact that all three groups - E3b, J2 and Haplotype 35 - have a similar origin in territories of the Roman Empire, and occur at comparable frequencies in parts of Britain with a known history of Roman settlement, suggests that they arrived in Britain through the same means."
Elliot (And border receivers) DNA Project (Haplogroup J2) - Haplogroup R1b (Haplotype 35).
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gallgaedhil/haplo_r1b_ht35_analysis.htm

"The members of this haplotype are found in high numbers in Anatolia and Armenia, with smaller numbers throughout Central Asia, the Middle East, the Balkans, the Caucus Mountains, and in Jewish populations. They are also present in Britain in areas that were found to have a high concentration of Haplogroup J, suggesting they arrived together, perhaps through Roman soldiers."
Wikipedia.org - Haplotype 35.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplotype_35
 
Last edited:
Haplogroup J has an interesting distribution in Italy. In Reggio Di Calabria, for example, on the toe of Calabria not too far from Sicily, 3.6 out of every 10 men belong to y-DNA J; the vast majority of it J2. The city of Paola in north-central Calabria is a peak of J in all Italy. In this western coastal region 4.5 out of every 10 men belongs to J. In neighbouring Matera though, only 13% of men are J, and only 12% for Altamura as well (extreme lows). In southern Apulia, (Casarano city), about 25% of men are of the J family. Similar frequencies are observed in Brindisi (central Apulia) 24%. Northern Apulia (Foggia) near the gargano peninsula has the highest levels of J (along with Paola) 44% J. Cilento, southern Campania has 28% of J lineages. To the north, Benevento has 26% J. Also on the Molise/Apulia border (where Foggia connects with Campobasso) around 3.8 out of 10 men are J's. in central Italy, the town of Avezzano (Abruzzo region) has 20% J. L'Aquila was found to have 35% J in one study, and Pescara has 30% J. Frequencies In Verona (Veneto) are still present for some reason (27% J.) As for Genoa, Garfagnana, Val Di Non they have very low frequencies (9-10%) as the north (Gallic settlement areas) have less J obviously. In terms of the three islands (Sicily,Sardinia,Corsica) Sicily has, by far, the highest middle eastern Neolithic blood (30%), all of it J2. Whereas Corsica only has 3% J2 and Sardinia has 5%. Although, the opposite can be said in terms of E3b, as this peaks on the island of Corsica (15%), but also found in Sardinia (10%) as compared to Sicily (5%) in this study. When comparing J in Italy to frequencies in Iberia, for example, we can see that Italy peaks at 45% J, in two regions, northern Apulia, and central Calabria. Frequencies are relatively elevated though across Sicily, Apulia, campania, parts of Marche and Abruzzo, found in 20% of men across Lazio as well are J2 alone. Whereas the biggest peak in all Iberia is in Cadiz, where only 18% of men belong to J. Sicily also has abnormally high levels of y-dna F (12%) and much more J2 than E3b, insinuating a different point of arrival for these agriculturalists than the E3b ones.
 
Last edited:
Roman DNA

"Dennis Cleeton from Llandrindod Wells, Powys has spent 20 years tracking his ancestors back to the 16th Century - then a chance request to take a DNA test took him back even further to the invading Roman armies."
BBC News - DNA links pensioner with Romans
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7804845.stm

"De komende maanden zullen wetenschappers van de KU Leuven DNA-stalen nemen in een aantal regio's om na te gaan of er een genetische band bestaat tussen de huidige inwoners van Vlaanderen en de Romeinse bezetters van 2.000 jaar geleden."
Leven er nog Romeinen in Vlaanderen?
http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/1.1441551

Transated: The comming months researchers of the University of Leuven will collect DNA samples in a number of regions to see if there is a genetic link between the current inhabitants of Flanders and the Roman occupiers from 2000 years go.

"Bij 50 inwoners van Snellegem is een DNA-staal genomen. Dat gebeurde in het kader van een onderzoek van de KU Leuven. Wetenschappers willen nagaan of er in de regio nog mensen zijn met een genetische band met de Romeinse bezetters."
DNA-test gaat op zoek naar nakomelingen van de Romeinen in Snellegem
http://www.focus-wtv.be/nieuws/alge...meinen-in-snellegem/article-4000186010538.htm

Translated: DNA samples of 50 Snellegem inhabitants was collected. This happend in the light of the University of Leuven`s research project. Sientist are trying to determine of there is a genetic link between the current inhabitants and the Roman invaders.

"In hoeverre stammen de Vlamingen nog af van de Romeinen die onze gebieden 2000 jaar geleden bezetten? Dat proberen wetenschappers van de universiteit van Leuven te achterhalen. Ze doen daarvoor een groot DNA-onderzoek. Mannen op verschillende plaatsen in Vlaanderen staan vrijwillig een speekselstaal af om dat te laten analyseren."
Stammen we af van de Romeinen?
http://nieuws.vtm.be/binnenland/2013010828008-stammen-we-af-van-de-romeinen

Translated: To what extend are Flemish people descendant of Romans who occupied these areas 2000 years ago? Researchers of the Leuven University are trying to determine that. They will do this by means of a large DNA project. Men at different locations in Flanders are volunteering to have their DNA samples collected.

"Parys Mountain is one of only three sites in Wales which have evidence of copper mining during the Bronze and Roman Ages."
BBC News - DNA test to prove Bronze Age link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/north_west/8007969.stm

1019570329.jpg
 
Last edited:
Romans, agriculture/viticulture.

"Agriculture in ancient Rome was not only a necessity, but was idealized among the social elite as a way of life. Cicero considered farming the best of all Roman occupations. In his treatise On Duties, he declared that "of all the occupations by which gain is secured, none is better than agriculture, none more profitable, none more delightful, none more becoming to a free man." When one of his clients was derided in court for preferring a rural lifestyle, Cicero defended country life as "the teacher of economy, of industry, and of justice" (parsimonia, diligentia, iustitia). Cato, Columella, Varro and Palladius wrote handbooks on farming practice. The staple crop was spelt, and bread was the mainstay of every Roman table. In his treatise De agricultura ("On Farming", 2nd century BC), Cato wrote that the best farm was a vineyard, followed by an irrigated garden, willow plantation, olive orchard, meadow, grain land, forest trees, vineyard trained on trees, and lastly acorn woodlands."
Roman Agriculture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_agriculture

j2b-ds.png
 
Last edited:
So only the Roman Republic and the early Roman Empire [Augustus/Tiberius] can truly be considered Roman (Italic/Etruscan) and it was during this time (Republic-Tiberius) that Rome became an ancient super-power and conquered its Empire; And therefor that epoch is far from Irrelevant;

Haplogroup J2 M172 & Expansion Map of the Roman Empire.

1150305_591299907594835_72728669_n.jpg


Haplogroup J2 M172 - Roman Republic.

1236259_591804834211009_98755787_n.jpg
 
The highest European frequencies of J are in Cyprus (36%), Crete (36%), Sicily (30%), Mainland Italy (25%) Mainland Greece (20%), Malta (20%), Albania (15%), Bulgaria (10%), Romania (10%), Spain (10%), Portugal (10%).
 
Romans & Haplogroup J2.

"J2a`s strong presence in Italy is owed in great part to the migration of the Etruscans from western Anatolia to central and northern Italy, and to the Greek colonisation of southern Italy. Immigration from the eastern Mediterranean to Rome during the Roman Empire, then from Anatolia, Thrace and Greece during the Byzantine period period (particularly in north-eastern Italy) further increased the incidence of j2 in the peninsula."
Eupedia.com - Haplogroup J2. (2013)
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

"The likely deep ancestry source of Haplogroup J2 as found along the Anglo-Scottish border is probably to be found with members of the Roman Legions which were stationed along Hadrian's wall."
Border receivers - DNA Report Nov 2005.
http://www.borderreivers.co.uk/DNA%2...20Nov%2005.htm
 
Last edited:
The Achaean Greeks, equivalent to the Danaans of Danaus (brother of aegyptus) are a tribe of Greeks that probably came from Egypt. The initial pelasgian Greeks (first autochtones of Greece) where probably the middle eastern Ionians, who where similar to the Medes and Anatolian groups. The Minoan era belonged to the middle easterners of Crete (J2), their fall came about when the incoming Danaans types would initiate the succeeding Mycenean era centred this time on mainland Greece (E3b). The Mycenaeans would in turn be dominated by the continental European Dorians (probably R1b but maybe even I2a or R1a.)

The Dorians are probably the tribe that brought along "Hellenization" of the barbarians. As for the Aeolians, they where barbarians as well. It is this combination of very anciently ancestrally Egyptian, middle eastern and continental European mix that would bring about the fall of the Trojan west Anatolian middle easterners.

"The majority of the haplogroups (R1a-M17, G2a-P15, I2-M438, J1-M267 and J2b-M102) shows times since expansion which ranges from approximately 4,5Kya to 2,7Kya, compatible with Bronze Age and the development of the Helladic civilizations, more specifically with the spread of Mycenaean culture (Montjoy 1998)."
The Genetic Signature of Neolithic in Greece.
http://amsdottorato.cib.unibo.it/3628/1/Anagnostou_Paolo_tesi.pdf
 
Last edited:
LeBrok, you blocked me on another thread about J2a so I do answer your question here.
” Are you trying to confuse us on purpose?
According to you, Aryans originally were J2a (IE and came from steppe), conquered mesopotamia, populated it with high J2a, which later gave start to Jews, their main HG? Other words, proto Jews were Aryans.
Now, Hitler would really flip. “ [/quote
Huh? You’re twisting my words. I never said that J2a is from Central Asia. J2a is native to the mountains of West Asia. J2a was born & evolved somewhere between the Taurus of Zagros mountains of West Asia. R1a-Z93 was native to (the north-western parts of) the Iranian Plateau & Central Asia, has been living there for thousands of years.
According to the Jewish scientists themselves, proto-Jews were J2a folks and came from the mountains

Proto Jews if anything were a mix of E1b, J1 and J2 just like most Semites. Don't through arguments with no evidence into the room. J2a and Jewish origin is not even a theory but pure speculation.
 
Note! : Eupedia forum rule nr. 4. STAY ON TOPIC

"Avoid posting messages that are out of context or irrelevant to a topic. While we encourage your participation, such posts will either be moved to another forum or deleted in order to ensure a thread`s consistency. If you do want to write a post that is to off topic you can always start a new thread."

Topic = Haplogroup J2, Romans, Christianity and Viticulture.
 
Romans and Haplogroup J2.

"Attempts to ascertain Sicilian "ethnic" origins should be undertaken with caution because haplogroups do not correspond precisely to medieval or modern conceptions of nationality. At best, they are approximate. For example, J2 is identified with Greeks but also with some Germans. Speaking very broadly, the most frequent Y haplogroups of the world's most conquered island may be correlated most probably (albeit imprecisely) to the following peoples: • J2 - Greeks, Romans, Jews, Spaniards,"
Best of Sicily - Genetics
http://www.bestofsicily.com/genetics.htm

1235530_621418664582959_1325191331_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
Etruscans (J2) and Rome.

"From about 700 BCE, the Etruscans settled around Tuscany and the Greeks in southern Italy. Etruscans probably came from Palestine and brought haplogroups J1, J2 and E with them. The Greeks in Italy were Doric and brought J2, E, G2a and probably more R1b (see above). The Romans progressively absorbed the Etruscans and Italian Greeks and mixed with them. By the time of Julius Caesar Roman citizens were probably composed of 45% of R1b, 20% of J, 15% of E, 15% of G2a and 5% of I2a."
Eupedia.com - Y-DNA haplogroups of ancient civilizations.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/25163-Y-DNA-haplogroups-of-ancient-civilizations

"A 2004 study by Semino et al. contradicted this study, and showed that Italians in North-central regions (like Tuscany and Emilia-Romagna) had a higher concentration of J2 than their Southern counterparts. North-central had 26.9% J2, whereas Calabria (a far Southern region) had 20.0%, Sardinia had 9.7% and Sicily had 16.7%. This could be because of the ancient Etruscans, who some think originated in the Near East."
Wikipedia.org - Genetic History of Italy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Italy

"Occurrence of J2-M172 Y-chromosomes in Tuscany has been related to the Etruscan heritage of the region."
Uniparental Markers of Contemporary Italian Population Reveals Details on Its Pre-Roman Heritage.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0050794

"Wine making spread to Crete during the Minoan period and then later to Italy with the Etruscans and to Iberia with the Phoenicians. It was an integral component of the economy and social culture of the proto-greek civilizations and the phoenicians who both went on to settle other mediterranean coastal regions. And tracing the spread of Viticulture from its origins to its spread before the Roman period, we can see te highest levels of Haplogroup J2 today correlate with the geographical centres of all these civilizations. While viticulture may not represent the first wave of M172 migrants to Europe, M172 certainly played a strong role in bringing Viticulture to Europe with such civilizations as the Minoans, Greeks and Phoenicians."
M172 Blog - Correlations in the spread of Viticulture and Haplogroup J2, 2008.
http://m172.blogspot.nl/2008/10/corr...ticulture.html

"J2a`s strong presence in Italy is owed in great part to the migration of the Etruscans from western Anatolia to central and northern Italy, and to the Greek colonisation of southern Italy. Immigration from the eastern Mediterranean to Rome during the Roman Empire, then from Anatolia, Thrace and Greece during the Byzantine period period (particularly in north-eastern Italy) further increased the incidence of j2 in the peninsula."
Eupedia.com - Haplogroup J2. (2013)
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

"The presence of J2 haplotypes in central Italy may be related to the debated hypothesis of an Anatolian origin of the Etruscan people, as suggested by mtDNA analysis on modern and ancient samples (Francalacci et al., 1996; Vernesi et al., 2004; Achilli et al., 2007), although it could be arrived in the region much earlier following the Neolithic expansion."
Phylogeography of Y-chromosome in Europe.
http://eprints.uniss.it/2783/1/Francalacci_P_Articolo_2008_History.pdf

"A certain occurrence of J2-M172 Y-chromosomes in Tuscany has been related to the Etruscan heritage of the region (Achilli et al., 2007)."
Phylogeography of Y-chromosome in Europe.
http://eprints.uniss.it/2783/1/Francalacci_P_Articolo_2008_History.pdf

Etruscan Origins of Rome and Italy.

 
Last edited:

This thread has been viewed 197363 times.

Back
Top